Which Instructor ? ??

[ENGLISH!]

HEY!!! I'm technically an APA 4, what do you have against 4's? Lol

I hope you are being sarcastic.

It's ChicagoRJ that seems to have deemed APA 4's as unworthy of any real good or advance playing lesson type help.

I just noticed the Lol.

Many instructors seem to want to blame the basics or lack of for everyones problem.

While yes one needs good basics, but many times it is other things that are holding back individuals.

Those things can be of the nature such as the insights that I've see from former professional players like Master Instructor Fran Crimi & the others that I've mentioned.

I don't know the specific numbers but I would have to wonder if 220 of 260 of the PBI Association are of the SPF variety just how many were 'taught' & 'certified' by RandyG &/or Scott Lee. How much diversity is there going to be?

What I think they see as an asset can also be seen as a debit against them when an individual is looking for something more.

There are those like Ms Crimi that were Master Instructors of the former BCA program before the formation of the Association of the PBI. Even what the PBIA calls 'certified' is actually just a 'recognized' designation as they are 'certified' as recognized. Then there is the actual certified, advance, etc.

You opening this thread essentially asked for a comparison or rating of those on your list & the other category.

I simply made my point which has continually been assaulted so as to be made to look as unfounded or unnecessary.

If that is the case then why are there different designation levels of PBIA instructors?

I have little doubt that since this has been dragged out that another PBIA instructor will chime in to defend or clarify their stance.

I'm not attacking anyone. I merely answered your question & qualified why I would choice who I listed.

There is another here on AZB from whom I have seen very good insights, but does not really promote himself as an instructor even though he is & he goes by SmoothStroke here on AZB.

I would also include Bob Jewett as he was a collegiate champion but he is a bit more reserved with posting his insights &/or is at times less definitive in expressing them & does so more in the form of suggestive questions.

So... I guess I should thank ChicagoRJ as his efforts has caused my list to grow & that is a good thing.

Best Wishes to You & Yours,
Rick

PS Every APA tam needs a 4. So, be careful that you do not move up to a 5 as then the Captain may have to make some team member choices as they go after a 3 or a 4.:wink:

 

[ENGLISH!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronscuba View Post
I had a conversation with an experienced player.

They said, once you learn the basics and have good fundamentals, what you need is table time and competition to advance through C and B to get to A. Some never get there. Once there, you still need table time to maintain, but also need a mentor with high level competitive experience to go further.

Sounds like what you are saying.
I agree with this 100%.

And such is what I see when I see the insights presented from those that I mentioned. They very much seem to have that kind of capability where others do not show such.

Who knows, perhaps some others are capable too but they are not showing it because they present the cookie cutter stuff.

Also, in this day of the internet video, One can get some rather good basics from a variety of sources. Tor Lowrey, Tom Rossman, & others have rather good instruction series on you tube for free. Ewa Lawrence, Janette Lee, Tony Robels & others have short very basic info too. That will not be for everyone as some require, want, like, or learn better from in person evaluation & instruction.

To each their own & everyone is at choice. I'm now casting my vote for other in the poll but I'd like to vote twice & cast a vote for CJ Wiley as well.

Best Wishes & Good Luck with the lesson form whomever you select to give it.

 

[KRJ]

And that is why I said in my earlier post that perhaps there should be some different designations.

But why should an APA 4 get a lesson from just anyone that has a certificate...

when they can get a lesson from someone that was a professional player AND also has a Master Instructor Certification like Fran Crimi...

or someone that was of the playing caliber of CJ Wiley or Nick Varner or Ray Martin?

It seems that you've prejudged the student & decided that they do not warrant top level instruction just because they are currently at APA 4 level regardless of what their desires & dreams might be.

.

Because anyone with a "certificate" can teach fundamentals as good or better then anyone. So, yeah, an apa 4 could save money and use someone who is a lower level instructor that knows fundamentals but has not the experience to take out more complex stuff. It's not like Pro's ares sitting around in all major cities and small towns waiting for apa 4's to come through the door.

So, you are correct, if Scott Lee or Randy G are coming to town, now they have a chance to learn from folks that have been teaching their entire lives. But just like pro's, they don't go to every town, and most players are not inclined to pay travel expenses on top of the pool instruction cost.

So in essence that APA 4 can seek out whomever they want, I don't believe I've said otherwise.

 

[BmoreMoney]

I hope you are being sarcastic.

It's ChicagoRJ that seems to have deemed APA 4's as unworthy of any real good or advance playing lesson type help.

I just noticed the Lol.

Many instructors seem to want to blame the basics or lack of for everyones problem.

While yes one needs good basics, but many times it is other things that are holding back individuals.

Those things can be of the nature such as the insights that I've see from former professional players like Master Instructor Fran Crimi & the others that I've mentioned.

I don't know the specific numbers but I would have to wonder if 220 of 260 of the PBI Association are of the SPF variety just how many were 'taught' & 'certified' by RandyG &/or Scott Lee. How much diversity is there going to be?

What I think they see as an asset can also be seen as a debit against them when an individual is looking for something more.

There are those like Ms Crimi that were Master Instructors of the former BCA program before the formation of the Association of the PBI. Even what the PBIA calls 'certified' is actually just a 'recognized' designation as they are 'certified' as recognized. Then there is the actual certified, advance, etc.

You opening this thread essentially asked for a comparison or rating of those on your list & the other category.

I simply made my point which has continually been assaulted so as to be made to look as unfounded or unnecessary.

If that is the case then why are there different designation levels of PBIA instructors?

I have little doubt that since this has been dragged out that another PBIA instructor will chime in to defend or clarify their stance.

I'm not attacking anyone. I merely answered your question & qualified why I would choice who I listed.

There is another here on AZB from whom I have seen very good insights, but does not really promote himself as an instructor even though he is & he goes by SmoothStroke here on AZB.

I would also include Bob Jewett as he was a collegiate champion but he is a bit more reserved with posting his insights &/or is at times less definitive in expressing them & does so more in the form of suggestive questions.

So... I guess I should thank ChicagoRJ as his efforts has caused my list to grow & that is a good thing.

Best Wishes to You & Yours,
Rick

PS Every APA tam needs a 4. So, be careful that you do not move up to a 5 as then the Captain may have to make some team member choices as they go after a 3 or a 4.:wink:

Yes some sarcasm but truthful too lol. See what had happened waz; see I'm not a big fan of leagues at least as far as playing in them but these two chick's I knew had been bugging me to join their APA 9 ball team for a couple years and finally they " convinced " me to and I did. Anyway as you know when new you come in as a 4. As luck would have it I only got to play two matches and I was in a bad accident and could not continue. I never rejoined and I'd imagine if I join a team in the future ( doubtful ) I'd still be a 4 since that was what I was last time I played lol.

 

[Colonel]

Go with an instructor that was a former "player", I.E. FranCrimi, CJ, & Ray Martin currently holding court in the Carolinas. Bottom line, they've been there & done it, what better place to learn.

The "others", certified, yada, yada. I'm sure there are some good ones, especially for beginners but you know the old adage, Those that can play, do, those that can't, teach. Just my opinion.

 

[ENGLISH!]

All you had to do was to simply post such on your own without ever quoting me.

Many times an APA 3 or 4 can get good basics for free from their team mate that is an APA 9 or 10 or what ever the top level now is.

Some of them may have taken lessons & can pass on what they have learned or what they have dug out of the cloth through many many years of play, sort of like what Ben Hogan did.

Also as I stated there is very much for free on You Tube.

The OP did not ask for a list of lower level cheaper instructors.

If he had, then perhaps some would have made recommendations for such.

Does everyone know that you're an instructor & hence have a bit of a bias in this 'conversation'?

Are we now going to go through every specific type scenario.

I think you've detoured this thread enough with your vendetta against me.

So... in an attempt to end it, I'll just say that you're right. You're right about every subject that you speak on save One.

I'd rather be wrong about every other subject but than that One.

But as I said in another post, your efforts did get me to add a few names to my list & that is a good thing.

So, Thank You for that.

 

[KRJ]

All you had to do was to simply post such on your own without ever quoting me.

Many times an APA 3 or 4 can get good basics for free from their team mate that is an APA 9 or 10 or what ever the top level now is.

Some of them may have taken lessons & can pass on what they have learned or what they have dug out of the cloth through many many years of play, sort of like what Ben Hogan did.

Also as I stated there is very much for free on You Tube.

The OP did not ask for a list of lower level cheaper instructors.

If he had, then perhaps some would have made recommendations for such.

Does everyone know that you're an instructor & hence have a bit of a bias in this 'conversation'?

Are we now going to go through every specific type scenario.

I think you've detoured this thread enough with your vendetta against me.

So... in an attempt to end it, I'll just say that you're right. You're right about every subject that you speak on save One.

I'd rather be wrong about every other subject but that One.

But as I said in another post, your efforts did get me to add a few names to my list & that is a good thing.

So, Thank You for that.

The confusion stemmed from you thinking I thought APA 4's were not worthy of great instruction. I never said or implied such a thing. Some of the best instructors/coaches in MOST sports were NOT great players. Why is that exactly?

WHo knows, maybe they turned their attention to learning how to teach, learning lots of different stuff from as many players, coaches, and others folks as possible.

I'm guessing Scott Lee and others have learned from MANY other folks over the decades they have been teaching, and correct me if I"m wrong, but it appears that folks that take a lesson with Scott and Randy are usually very positive after the lesson.

I've never even read a negative review for either one of them, ever. OH, I'm sure there was someone down the road that I missed, so please don't "quote" me on the NEVER part. I'm sure Fran has the same amount of satisfied customers, as does CJ as does Earl, as does Stan, as do many certified instructors, etc. etc. etc.

 

[ENGLISH!]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I could say more & counter, but I think it is way past time for this crap to end.

If one has a choice, which the poll implied, then my opinion is that one should do has Colonel said a few posts up.

If one has no choice, then one is stuck with what one has.

 

[DTL]

.................

 

[ronscuba]

I took lessons from Fran when I started. She tweaked my fundamentals. She could have milked me for more lessons but she told me what I needed was table time, competition and periodic check up lessons to make sure I did not develop a bad habit.

A unique insight ? How about the below post she made about how best to improve ? I think this is GOLD.


"it all comes down to a strong work ethic. But the way you improve depends on your personality and what you respond to. You have to find the winning formula for yourself. For example, some players are great observers, and when they see a player do something that interests them, they take it to the practice table and work on it over and over until they figure it out.

Some players learn best when they are under pressure. They will continually jump into competition and will learn how to improve by getting beat up by their opponents. That's extreme learning under fire, but it does have it's merits.

Other players need a structured format to follow or they get confused and frustrated. They may buy a book and start at chapter 1.

Other players like to simply fly by the seat of their pants. They will just play and play and play and let their sub-conscious work it out.

One thing is for sure: You need to put in lots of table time. There's no shortcut there.

What do you like about the learning process? What interests you? What feels more like fun than work? Those questions will help you figure out your personal formula for success"

 

[ENGLISH!]

Another one that I forgot to mention that I was just reminded of is Stan Shuffett.

He is another that does not post much here other than in the aiming thread, but I have seen several comments of his that were rather insightful & I gave him thumbs up on all of those occasions, even though I do not agree with his description of what his aiming method is.

He seems to be another with the experienced player's insights.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I took lessons from Fran when I started. She tweaked my fundamentals. She could have milked me for more lessons but she told me what I needed was table time, competition and periodic check up lessons to make sure I did not develop a bad habit.

A unique insight ? How about the below post she made about how best to improve ? I think this is GOLD.


"it all comes down to a strong work ethic. But the way you improve depends on your personality and what you respond to. You have to find the winning formula for yourself. For example, some players are great observers, and when they see a player do something that interests them, they take it to the practice table and work on it over and over until they figure it out.

Some players learn best when they are under pressure. They will continually jump into competition and will learn how to improve by getting beat up by their opponents. That's extreme learning under fire, but it does have it's merits.

Other players need a structured format to follow or they get confused and frustrated. They may buy a book and start at chapter 1.

Other players like to simply fly by the seat of their pants. They will just play and play and play and let their sub-conscious work it out.

One thing is for sure: You need to put in lots of table time. There's no shortcut there.

What do you like about the learning process? What interests you? What feels more like fun than work? Those questions will help you figure out your personal formula for success"

----------:thumbup:----------------

 

[ENGLISH!]

I had not really played that much with the red circle cue ball & never consistently. So, after I entered an in house money league & was having some trouble getting the lighter more bouncy red circle cue ball to follow accurately & consistently for certain shots, Fran told me that I should not try to spin the ball for the follow but instead hit a bit lower & give it a more driving forceful momentum along with some spin.

She was correct.

I should have figured that out for myself but I did not have that type of playing experience of playing with a cue ball that was lighter & bouncier than the other balls.

Others have the cloned cookie cutter thing like, you might not be hitting where you think that you are on the ball & you may be hitting it lower than you think. You might be having some stroke issues & probably should see a certified instructor.

That's just one example.

Then there are others that are a bit controversial for those that don't really know but think that they do.

The bottom line is as Colonel posted if that is an option available.

In case some have not noticed, just like in the real world there are rather many male chauvinists here on AZB.

 

[DTL]

....................

 

[Bank it]

All great stuff, but hardly unique. Same stuff has been said for generations by various instructors, sport psychologists, etc in all sports/games.



The point of my post was how can this guy lump Fran in with CJ? On a rare occasion she's out in left field, but the majority of the time she puts out sound, time-proven advice....not vague so called advanced this and that.



IMO his main motive is to try and make himself look better on here by association, and like I've said before, she likely sometimes cringes when she sees her name in one of his posts.

I think the "link" that would be seen between the 2 is they are both former pro players, no more, no less. That they are "players" who have been tested & proven in elite competitive fields of pro players. While you might think CJ is an embarrassment or whatever negative connotation you seem to have of him it cannot be denied where he's been & what he's done in the game in both tournament play & IMO more importantly, road work for the $. I find it amusing that people he can spot an insufferable amount of weight to want to portray him as a Charlatan.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Jack Nicklaus once put his arm around my shoulder as we were shaking hands walking from the 9th. green to to the 10th. tee & a couple of years earlier Tom Watson looked me & my wife right in the eye & asked us how we were doing that bright fine day.

I think they were both very impressive Professional Golfers in their day & I think that they are both very fine individuals.

Is anyone impressed?

 

[ENGLISH!]

I think the "link" that would be seen between the 2 is they are both former pro players, no more, no less. That they are "players" who have been tested & proven in elite competitive fields of pro players. While you might think CJ is an embarrassment or whatever negative connotation you seem to have of him it cannot be denied where he's been & what he's done in the game in both tournament play & IMO more importantly, road work for the $. I find it amusing that people he can spot an insufferable amount of weight to want to portray him as a Charlatan.

----------------:thumbup2:-----------------

 

[DTL]

..................

 

[DTL]

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[ENGLISH!]

I hardly knew who CJ Wiley was prior to him coming onto AZB.

I'd seen him on TV a couple of times & had maybe heard his name mentioned a couple of times in a pool hall.

Just like I became intrigued with Stan Shuffett's description of his aiming 'system'...

I also became a bit intrigued with CJ Wiley talking about his TOI technique or method.

One of the reasons was that I had always played with combination english of both the outside & inside varieties for both the purpose of pocketing balls & getting position using the spins off the rails.

CJ's use of the squirt was rather foreign to me just as an objective aiming 'system' was foreign to me.

I experimented with both & found one to work as described & the other to not be so.

DTL has said that Stan Shuffett knows more about the game of pocket billiards than any other living being in the world.

Stan Shuffett is DTL's god of pool & I am at odds with how Stan describes his aiming method.

That is why DTL has a vendetta against me & seemingly anyone that I compliment in any way.

I complimented Stan here in this thread even though I am at odds with how he describes his aiming method.

Maybe DTL will now start saying not so nice things about Stan & Jack Nicklaus & Tom Watson & Ben Hogan. Other 'celebrities' that I have mentioned.

He has gone so low as far as to make homosexual & child molestation references regarding me.

The second of those should have resulted in a permanent ban from this site IMO.

Everyone can certainly make their own assessment regarding me as well that they can regarding DTL.

I doubt that there will be a general consensus regarding either of us.