Zero x system

Joe Pickens

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What a bunch of crock. If I tell you to shoot a ball straight into a pocket using a straight stroke and then someone else told you the same thing does that mean they stole my idea?

Is anyone really saying that Jimmy's DVD's are his own idea and he never learned anything from anyone? After a few hundred years of pool Jimmy is the only one to ever come up with a kicking system?

In my opinion Tor is a stand-up, honorable person that does not deserve any of the criticism that has been thrown at him. We should all be thankful that someone has produced a video that is well made and easy to understand so we can all learn to play a little better and have more fun trying to expand our knowledge of the game.
 

MyImmortal

Registered
If I was a personal friend of Jimmy Reid's, my efforts to help him in his greatest time of need would be to utilize the wonderful tools Tor has provided for him and assist him in increasing his sales. Rather than spending time being negative, the same amount of time could be spent helping Jimmy.

There are many forms of help; easy ways to help him now. Buy his DVD's, post links to his website, sponsor fundraisers on his behalf, pray for him, call him on the telephone to wish him well, and encourage others to be supportive on the healing journey that Jimmy finds himself on. Think to yourselves: "what would I want somebody to do for me if I was as sick as my friend, Jimmy?" A true friend would be able to instantly then know many steps; positive and constructive ways to help him.

I do not see anybody else yet posting about having done anything to help Jimmy, other than a few kind people who called and offered their support and well-wishes. It seems Jimmy has some great stories. What better way to support him than to let him tell you his great stories? That seems mutually positive and healing to me.

From everything I have seen, Tor has done an outstanding job on behalf of Jimmy, providing him very high quality work, equally impressive as his own, in website design, search engine optimization, graphic design, professional video intros and transitions, etc., Two weeks, let alone a full year, of a person's time is of great value. Factor in all the great tools Jimmy has that he never had before and it is impressive.

I was given free pool lessons by Tor in 1985, and was taught the same way back then as I am relearning now with his videos. Tor has many more videos than what he is apparently being judged for now. How sad it is that somebody as Tor comes along, offers outstanding material on many subjects for all levels of players, only to be ripped to shreds, even by those who never have even seen any of his videos. Granted, I was not serious as a player when Tor taught me; far from it, but I did understand the system being taught as exactly what he teaches now, although without the name Zero-X. Tor taught me more than just kicking and banking. He also explained to me, knowing that I am also not very "math proficient," that was the very reason for teaching the way he does. He also has an incredible, down-to-earth and easily understandable style - very patient with his students.

Honestly, he could have considered me to be a big waste of his valuable time, but never once did he make me feel that way. I just did not commit the time to do the drills I was encouraged to do by Tor, and regrettably did not begin to play again until much later in my life, so that was my loss. Tor also taught two of my brothers the same system, and much more about the game of pool. One of those brothers was taught free by Tor after he became disabled due to a brain tumor and subsequent brain cancer and surgery. He still plays today, often with Tor, and though he barely even understands instruction for his disability, Tor patiently works with him, for no other reason than to help my brother continue doing something he always has loved.

Having watched Tor play in tournaments many times, I was always in awe of his skills, beginning in 1985 until the present. The first tournament in which I watched him play was sponsored by Busch Beer. He was barely 19 years old then and had already been playing pool seriously, even in junior tournaments, beginning at age 16. His parents told me stories about Tor being fascinated with pool even as a child. More impressive about Tor, to me always, even more so than his skill, was his willingness to teach people anything he knew, even people with whom he would later play in tournaments.

If even one person understands my message about positive ways to help Jimmy, than it will have been worth the time it took me to write this lengthy post. I am so disheartened to see such a vicious attack on one of the best people I have ever known. I hope Tor will one day share with you the primary reason he wanted to help Jimmy so much. It's a very sad story. If I did not feel as I would violate Tor's trust in me, I would share it myself.

No wonder so many people leave these forums. I am understanding now that it has more to do with the fact that many people are forced to defend themselves against rumors, vicious attacks on their characters and outright bullying. What a shame, when this should truly be a place where people who love pool connect to share anything positive about the game they love the most.

Not a loss for me to leave here for I never truly contributed, nor connected with anybody but a couple I will continue to view as good people and friends, and I am grateful for them. I kept checking this forum, hoping one day I might view it differently. I can see there are good people here, with good hearts, who truly are here for the same reason I wanted to be. What is more evident is that there are many self-serving people with a great deal of time on their hands.

I have even seen C.J. Wiley get attacked unfairly, many times. He shares many good things with people, only to be forced to constantly defend himself. Why? No good reason, for C.J. has earned the right and opportunity to advertise. Tor has been judged for NOT advertising. What is wrong with people? I truly will never understand. I will pray for every negative person, for in my view, their lives must be so miserable, that their only real satisfaction may come from tearing others down.

Life is hard enough for everybody. Tearing each other down seems like an easy way to make it even harder. I freely admit I am not a person who can deal with that in hopes that one day I might receive some useful tip, referral or otherwise.

I would not blame Tor one bit if he chose to never share anything again so freely. Tor would never do that though. He posts great videos as long as 70 minutes for free on YouTube. He charges the most nominal fees for his instructional materials. He has many more in production, but what incentive does he have to want to provide anything? I can tell you it has nothing to do with money. Anybody believing a person may get rich giving away most of their material and selling nothing for more than $8.99, is kidding themselves. Believe me, if they could, many people would be doing it.

When Tor was asked by Jimmy to design his website, Tor could easily have said no. I don't know many people who would claim that two weeks of their time isn't worth a great deal, even more than money. Beyond that two weeks, please do not forget that Tor spent nearly a full year providing much more for Jimmy Reid and still offers to help. It is who Tor is as a person and frankly, to me, that is worth far more than any amount of money.

What was Tor's greatest goal at the beginning of this new year? It did not surprise me to see his excitement at the prospect of visiting a young man in Chicago - a complete stranger who is seriously dedicated to being a great pool player. Why was Tor so excited? Because he saw it as a great way to "pay it forward." And I would bet any amount of money that Tor has no greater priority than to one day this year, just show up on that kid's doorstep, ready to teach him everything he has learned himself about what has been his passion since he was very young. What will he receive in return? What he will receive is the greatest gift any person could ever give another. He will know that one more time, for his own attitude of being grateful, for what he was given in the form of lessons by great players in Jerry Briesath, Hal Mix and others, that somebody else will be as fortunate and maybe pay it forward himself one day. Some young kid will know that somebody cared enough to believe in him.

What have I seen Tor do many times with pool tournament winnings? I have seen him take that money and purchase pool gifts for those less fortunate; people like my disabled brother - once, a young kid who told him his greatest desire was to own something other than a hand-me-down bar pool cue.

I suppose I should apologize for such a lengthy post - feeling as most people will not read it anyway, but I have decided that I won't, for in reality, I need to express how I feel, not for Tor as much as for myself.

Tor is not just a website designer. Tor is humble and would never share everything he has accomplished in his life, for he would view that as self-serving. Who is Tor? Tor is an amazing human being, compassionate, kind and giving. Tor is a great friend and teacher to many people in every corner of the United States. Tor is an accomplished two-handed bowler. Tor is an outstanding pool player. Tor is an accomplished author, screenwriter, special effects designer. Tor is an accomplished graphics designer and filmmaker. Tor is an outstanding chess player; intelligent and self-taught at many things. Why doesn't Jimmy know any of these things? If you read Tor's response, you would know because Jimmy wasn't interested in knowing anything about Tor. How did Tor respond to that? By saying how much he loved hearing Jimmy tell his pool stories.

How do I know so much about the particular trip to Florida in question? I know because I was supposed to also be on that trip. Tor wanted to help Jimmy so much that he asked me to take time away from my own work as a consultant to accompany him. Why? So, I could meet Jimmy, hear his stories and transform them to book form. Tor wanted so much that Jimmy would have a voice; that in addition to his great contribution to the pool world, Jimmy would have a legacy for all those who never had the opportunity to hear those great stories.

I did not end up going on that trip, for I became very ill myself; so ill that Tor nearly cancelled his own trip. What did Tor do before he left? He made sure that I would have the round-the-clock care I required then.

What did Tor do upon his return from Florida? He created a $1500 value website for a local artist. Tor would never tell you this, but what he asked for in exchange from that brilliant artist - it was not money. Tor instead asked the artist to paint on a large canvas, a portrait of Jimmy Reid playing pool. Tor was so excited to be able to give it to Jimmy as a gift. When he told Jimmy about the painting on the telephone, I will never forget Tor's reaction to the fact that Jimmy did not seem interested. Tor shrugged his feelings away for believing Jimmy was just too sick to care about much more than getting better, and Tor understood.

How many of you would do what Tor did? How many of you would take nearly a full year to create all these wonderful tools for somebody you do not even know? How many of you would give up $1500 cash payment, just for the chance to have a renowned artist paint a portrait you could present as a gift to a very sick man? My guess, and not meaning to sound cynical, is not many.

Tor has been very busy for many months. He has many reasons to need to be in Las Vegas and parts of California. Why hasn't he gone? Because once again, his friend in me - I AM A BURDEN. I am sick and Tor has spent many nights, after filming, editing and running his business, taking care of me. It is my responsibility to reveal this, because I know Tor well, and he would NEVER say so himself.

If anybody needs to know what is wrong with me, just ask. If you want to know how Tor has helped me to stay alive, just ask - for I will tell you. Why? Because I am sure what he does for me; the ways he has been there for me as his friend, so many times I lost count, are very similar to the very reasons he was so committed to helping Jimmy Reid. The difference? The difference is that Tor will receive nothing but gratitude from me and that I will never, ever forget that he was there - when nobody else cared enough to be.

In closing, I just need to implore again for somebody to do the right things for the right reasons. When our world is so full of doubt and hope is lacking, I hope any of you may one day be able to know a person who is even half the person Tor has been for his entire life.

For anybody who read this to its conclusion, I am grateful for you - even if you do not understand fully my message. Take a look around and notice - notice those who seem to be searching for something - anything which might help them feel connected to what I am sure AZB is intended to be...a place where pool players from everywhere may come to share the best of everything. Won't you please just try?
 

vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After reading Tor's response, I hate to ask.....but how is Jimmy's mind at the moment? Any chance he's suffering from alzheimers? Hate to ask, but I've seen misunderstandings like this happen before.

Either way, Jimmy's allegations should be pretty easy to verify their validity. (which at the moment I haven't seen anything validating them)
 

vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What a bunch of crock. If I tell you to shoot a ball straight into a pocket using a straight stroke and then someone else told you the same thing does that mean they stole my idea?

Is anyone really saying that Jimmy's DVD's are his own idea and he never learned anything from anyone? After a few hundred years of pool Jimmy is the only one to ever come up with a kicking system?

In my opinion Tor is a stand-up, honorable person that does not deserve any of the criticism that has been thrown at him. We should all be thankful that someone has produced a video that is well made and easy to understand so we can all learn to play a little better and have more fun trying to expand our knowledge of the game.

No, but if you brought me into (insert any random business here) and I learned how to make instructional videos, organize material, teach, etc etc, in the guise of helping you out, only to turn around and start making my own videos based on the things I learned from you......then it would be a problem.

However, based on Tor's response......Jimmy would have to come up with a lot of proof that this is what Tor actually did.
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
How can you not listen to a friend and honor his request to relay his story?

For a start, how about using a bit of common sense. If a sick friend asked to to jump off a cliff, would you?

We all have grief in our lives. Its no excuse to do what we want.
Jen gets a lot of free passes around here because of who she lives with.

In the past, she has been accused of doing the same as I mentioned. I have always liked her so chose to ignore most of it until the last little fiasco before this one. You can only ignore it for so long before you recognize that there is a pattern to certain peoples behavior.

So, the pot gets stirred, the crap hits the fan, someone gets wrongly accused of something they had absolutely nothing to do with and where is Jen. Ooops, guess I just won't log into AZ for a little while.

Now, people were demanding apologies to Jen for her treatment here the last time.

I think its only fitting that she give Tor an apology for this one.

And we sometimes wonder why we can't get the pros to hang around a little longer than they do. Her old man doesn't want anything to do with AZ.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
For a start, how about using a bit of common sense. If a sick friend asked to to jump off a cliff, would you?

We all have grief in our lives. Its no excuse to do what we want.
Jen gets a lot of free passes around here because of who she lives with.

In the past, she has been accused of doing the same as I mentioned. I have always liked her so chose to ignore most of it until the last little fiasco before this one. You can only ignore it for so long before you recognize that there is a pattern to certain peoples behavior.

So, the pot gets stirred, the crap hits the fan, someone gets wrongly accused of something they had absolutely nothing to do with and where is Jen. Ooops, guess I just won't log into AZ for a little while.

Now, people were demanding apologies to Jen for her treatment here the last time.

I think its only fitting that she give Tor an apology for this one.

And we sometimes wonder why we can't get the pros to hang around a little longer than they do. Her old man doesn't want anything to do with AZ.

Let's agree to disagree here. Jennie is my friend and as far as I am concerned given the situation between Ronnie and Jimmy she gets a free pass on this one. As you can clearly see it's not only Jennie that Jimmy has told of his grievances and one way or the other it would have made it to the forum.

However I do agree that perhaps she and anyone else could do a little homework first before putting any sort of accusations out there. I understand that many folks here don't like Jennie and so let's just leave it at that.

At the end of the day the story is out and we now know the situation and hopefully the end result is that Jimmy can get whatever help he needs to work out things on his end.

P.S. If it was a virtual cliff then probably. I am the type of person who gets emotional when I hear someone's plight and have put myself out there many times to help them even when it put me at risk to do so.
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
OK John, we will agree to disagree on this one.

Either way, I hadn't planned on deleting Tor from my Face Book friends list over this one.

Jen gets another pass until next time. OK by me.

My father has been in the hospital for 6 months now. Doesn't look like he will ever get out.
Guess I'll rip the crap outta this place tomorrow for something to do.
Maybe Dave will forgive me.
 

brophog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What a bunch of crock. If I tell you to shoot a ball straight into a pocket using a straight stroke and then someone else told you the same thing does that mean they stole my idea?

Is anyone really saying that Jimmy's DVD's are his own idea and he never learned anything from anyone? After a few hundred years of pool Jimmy is the only one to ever come up with a kicking system?

As we've discussed on these boards before in similar threads, method is not subject to copyright and it is for these sorts of reasons.

If you want to protect an idea, system, or method then do what the big shots do: threaten to sue. It is the big shot equivalent of having a "beware of dog" sign, but not actually owning a dog.
 

ScottK

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For a start, how about using a bit of common sense. If a sick friend asked to to jump off a cliff, would you?

We all have grief in our lives. Its no excuse to do what we want.
Jen gets a lot of free passes around here because of who she lives with.

In the past, she has been accused of doing the same as I mentioned. I have always liked her so chose to ignore most of it until the last little fiasco before this one. You can only ignore it for so long before you recognize that there is a pattern to certain peoples behavior.

So, the pot gets stirred, the crap hits the fan, someone gets wrongly accused of something they had absolutely nothing to do with and where is Jen. Ooops, guess I just won't log into AZ for a little while.

Now, people were demanding apologies to Jen for her treatment here the last time.

I think its only fitting that she give Tor an apology for this one.

And we sometimes wonder why we can't get the pros to hang around a little longer than they do. Her old man doesn't want anything to do with AZ.

Agreed. I wasn't aware she had a history and would like to apologize to Tor for accepting her post as fact without any confirmation.

Let's agree to disagree here. Jennie is my friend and as far as I am concerned given the situation between Ronnie and Jimmy she gets a free pass on this one. As you can clearly see it's not only Jennie that Jimmy has told of his grievances and one way or the other it would have made it to the forum.

However I do agree that perhaps she and anyone else could do a little homework first before putting any sort of accusations out there. I understand that many folks here don't like Jennie and so let's just leave it at that.

At the end of the day the story is out and we now know the situation and hopefully the end result is that Jimmy can get whatever help he needs to work out things on his end.

P.S. If it was a virtual cliff then probably. I am the type of person who gets emotional when I hear someone's plight and have put myself out there many times to help them even when it put me at risk to do so.

I agree, John. Hearing about Jimmy's plight is a sad story. The sickness aside, we do know one way or the other his web site was compromised since Tor posted about it too.
I'd like to help Jimmy out, and it sounds like buying the DVDs would be at least a little help, but I do want to make sure the issues with his web site are fixed and that he will actually get the money before ordering online. If there is any question, I'd rather send him a check. I didn't get to call him yesterday, but I will try soon.

In any event I hope the whole thing works out on both ends.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For a start, how about using a bit of common sense. If a sick friend asked to to jump off a cliff, would you?

We all have grief in our lives. Its no excuse to do what we want.
Jen gets a lot of free passes around here because of who she lives with.

In the past, she has been accused of doing the same as I mentioned. I have always liked her so chose to ignore most of it until the last little fiasco before this one. You can only ignore it for so long before you recognize that there is a pattern to certain peoples behavior.

So, the pot gets stirred, the crap hits the fan, someone gets wrongly accused of something they had absolutely nothing to do with and where is Jen. Ooops, guess I just won't log into AZ for a little while.

Now, people were demanding apologies to Jen for her treatment here the last time.

I think its only fitting that she give Tor an apology for this one.

And we sometimes wonder why we can't get the pros to hang around a little longer than they do. Her old man doesn't want anything to do with AZ.

"Jen" is right here. I ain't hiding anywhere, never have and never will. I sometimes choose to work for a living instead of playing on pool forums. I enjoy pool forums, but sometimes my income trumps play.

In your world, I shoud apologize when I am called a humilitating and vulgar name? No, thank you. I chose to not respond, because if I did, as I am now with you, I am sure the sh*t, as you put it, will hit the fan with a negative back-and-forth. Untruths and multiple identidies come forth to support a friend, and yet my friends, to avoid confrontation, sent me e-mails and remained silent, for the most part, to avoid controversy, kind of similar to Martin Luther King's approach of nonviolence.

I won't stand by, though, and be accused of doing anything wrong. I posted Jimmy's phone number and e-mail, as he requested, because he cannot logon to AzBilliards forum. I had to provide a little color on why Jimmy wanted to be contacted. You must have missed the post where I wrote Tor just might be a nice guy chock-full of pool information and that what I was relaying was "hearsay" from Jimmy.
 

quadrary

Custom Leather Cue Cases
Silver Member
I haven't looked into this system, but does it suggest when playing on a table for the first time taking a shot from a corner pocket diagonally towards the second diamond and attempting to make the cue ball go 3 rails and back into the other corner pocket on your end of the table? And keep adjusting in front or behind the diamond until you make the shot to have a reference point as to if the table rolls long or short according to the kicking system?

If so, this is totally a knock off from Jimmy's sytem.

i am sorry but that is nonsense. I havent seen either tor or jimmys videos but i always have used that shot and the out of corner cross side to determine how a table plays off the rails. Actually the three rail shot is more a basis to determine how much running english is gained from the first rail contact for a given speed. The cross side is more an indicator of short or long.
 
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Donkey Bruce

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Jen" is right here. I ain't hiding anywhere, never have and never will. I sometimes choose to work for a living instead of playing on pool forums. I enjoy pool forums, but sometimes my income trumps play.

In your world, I shoud apologize when I am called a humilitating and vulgar name? No, thank you. I chose to not respond, because if I did, as I am now with you, I am sure the sh*t, as you put it, will hit the fan with a negative back-and-forth. Untruths and multiple identidies come forth to support a friend, and yet my friends, to avoid confrontation, sent me e-mails and remained silent, for the most part, to avoid controversy, kind of similar to Martin Luther King's approach of nonviolence.

I won't stand by, though, and be accused of doing anything wrong. I posted Jimmy's phone number and e-mail, as he requested, because he cannot logon to AzBilliards forum. I had to provide a little color on why Jimmy wanted to be contacted. You must have missed the post where I wrote Tor just might be a nice guy chock-full of pool information and that what I was relaying was "hearsay" from Jimmy.



Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk
 

FrankShot

Pool Player
Obviously, this post makes me regret buying those videos. If you could, ask Jimmy what he feels the kicking and banking information is worth on his end and find out how I can send him some cash to cover his loss. It really sucks to read a story like this. :mad:
It seemed at the time this guy came out of nowhere! No credentials ..no anything.
Someone brought his name up the other day. I knew I'd heard it before & I bought a download from him myself early on. Then I came here and found the answer as usual. What a classless act. A recent observance...All of his youtube offerings (at least the ones I went to) have the comments section "Locked up". Doesn't make sense for someone peddling videos.....or does it !

Does anyone know if Jimmy Ried & his daughter ever posted the real info here as was discussed last year? I can't find anything.
 
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fathomblue

Rusty Shackleford
Silver Member
I'm currently participating in Tor's "14 Days: The Great Pool Experiment" as we speak.

I will stand up and say that Tor is easily one of the single most genuine, honest, knowledgable people I've ever met. I had never actually met him till 10 days ago and have been on this board for about 4 years now or so.

I have Jimmy's videos, and while I think he's a nice guy, the presentation and actual content is nothing like Tor's. This is truly a witch hunt gone awry.

I've learned more in the past 9 days than my entire pool career.....combined. I'm already a much stronger player.

What Tor is doing for pool players is a godsend.

Let the flame war begin.
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
It seemed at the time this guy came out of nowhere! No credentials ..no anything.
Someone brought his name up the other day. I knew I'd heard it before & I bought a download from him myself early on. Then I came here and found the answer as usual. What a classless act. A recent observance...All of his youtube offerings (at least the ones I went to) have the comments section "Locked up". Doesn't make sense for someone peddling videos.....or does it !

Does anyone know if Jimmy Ried & his daughter ever posted the real info here as was discussed last year? I can't find anything.

Your post just screams bias. To my knowledge Jimmy Reid nor his daughter ever gave their side of the story on here, even though I'm sure they were made aware that Tor gave his side here. I thought this issue was long dead and gone with the general consensus being that it was probably more a misunderstanding on Jimmy's part than anything but that we would never know for sure and the reason for that is precisely because Jimmy didn't feel it was important enough to give his side of the story on here.
 

richieRUNracks

New member
Now it make sens why Tor didn't promote his videos on AZ, with support and answers.

Watching those videos sometimes I thought that the author have no idea what are he talking about, especial when it comes to 2-3 rail kicks, hes explanations was pretty weak.

judging by the way you spell,im leaning towards your brain cant handle the information,tors videos are very easy to digest(for a normal brain that is)
 

brentinps

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been wanting to try out the Zero-X vids, and have enjoyed the Tor vids on Youtube.

What should I do about the issue here, and who should I properly pay in order to get a copy??
 

BryanB

Huge Balls
Silver Member
You can't go wrong with Tor's videos. They are very easy to understand. Tor is a great guy. He spent about a week with me in April working on my game..all for free
 
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