Rule Clarification - Safety play in WPA 10-Ball

[Vinnie]

Here are the applicable WPA rules...
9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)
9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot as is, or hand it back to his opponent.

Am I to interpret these rules to mean that if a player calls a "safety" and then pockets any object ball, then his opponent has the option to hand it back?

 

[Cuebacca]

Here are the applicable WPA rules...
9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)
9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot as is, or hand it back to his opponent.

Am I to interpret these rules to mean that if a player calls a "safety" and then pockets any object ball, then his opponent has the option to hand it back?

To me it reads that if the player declares a safety, the opponent can only give the shot back if the lowest numbered ball is pocketed.

 

[BVal]

Here are the applicable WPA rules...
9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)
9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot as is, or hand it back to his opponent.

Am I to interpret these rules to mean that if a player calls a "safety" and then pockets any object ball, then his opponent has the option to hand it back?

It has to be a legally pocketed object ball which would be the lowest numbered ball on the table. However I am guessing that it could also mean that they can contact the lowest ball and make another ball which would be pocketing a legal object ball.

I'm confused

BVal

 

[jay helfert]

Who writes these "rules" anyway? If I didn't know better I would think they were kidding. It seems that they prefer to confuse as many players as possible and make the game just that much more difficult to play. And by that I don't mean more skillful, just more complicated.

One more strike against the WPA in my book. More stupid "rules"!

 

[1hit1der]

Here are the applicable WPA rules...
9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)
9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot as is, or hand it back to his opponent.

Am I to interpret these rules to mean that if a player calls a "safety" and then pockets any object ball, then his opponent has the option to hand it back?

I read it like that. If a player calls a safety, then there's no ball nominated, so if he pockets anything, then it's a wrongfully pocketed ball.

I'm sure these rules were written with obscure situations in mind just trying to close all the loopholes. If I'm not mistaken, links were posted to these rules on this forum as they were going through revisions.

 

[bandido]

Who writes these "rules" anyway? If I didn't know better I would think they were kidding. It seems that they prefer to confuse as many players as possible and make the game just that much more difficult to play. And by that I don't mean more skillful, just more complicated.

One more strike against the WPA in my book. More stupid "rules"!

Who else but your buddy YM.

 

[selftaut]

Am I to interpret these rules to mean that if a player calls a "safety" and then pockets any object ball, then his opponent has the option to hand it back?

You interpreted correctly, if ANY ball goes in after a safety is called and a legal hit occurs, then the opponent can hand the table back. If the 10 ball happens to pocket it gets spotted, all others stay down.

 

[Cuebacca]

You interpreted correctly, if ANY ball goes in after a safety is called and a legal hit occurs, then the opponent can hand the table back. If the 10 ball happens to pocket it gets spotted, all others stay down.

Are you sure about that? If so, the WPA should really change the wording. Notice their use of the term "the legal object ball":

9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)​

 

[selftaut]

Are you sure about that? If so, the WPA should really change the wording. Notice their use of the term "the legal object ball":

9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)​

The 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed balls is what comes into play. Its the same ruling if a wrongfully pocketed ball occurs.

 

[Cuebacca]

The 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed balls is what comes into play. Its the same ruling if a wrongfully pocketed ball occurs.

As I read it, 9.7 only applies to shots where "safety" wasn't declared; i.e., where there was "an intended ball and pocket".

I'm not sure I follow their logic as to why the two situations would be handled differently, but with the current wording it does seem to me that they want it that way.

 

[selftaut]

As I read it, 9.7 only applies to shots where "safety" wasn't declared; i.e., where there was "an intended ball and pocket".

I'm not sure I follow their logic as to why the two situations would be handled differently, but with the current wording it does seem to me that they want it that way.

You can see in the 9.6 at the bottom that it reads 9.7 also applies during a safety.

And you are right, very confusing at best.

 

[Cuebacca]

You can see in the 9.6 at the bottom that it reads 9.7 also applies during a safety.

And you are right, very confusing at best.

lmao @ me. Thanks for your patience. I can't believe I didn't see that.

I can understand the lowest ball part. I wonder why they included the other balls. Oh well, one of life's mysteries I guess.

 

[selftaut]

lmao @ me. Thanks for your patience. I can't believe I didn't see that.

I can understand the lowest ball part. I wonder why they included the other balls. Oh well, one of life's mysteries I guess.

LOL, you didn't see that because you were like everyone else, to confused by then to read anymore! Most confusing rules EVER!

I went over these rules in detail when I started my 10 Ball tour. I simply could not use those rules, we play Texas Express 10 ball.

 

[jay helfert]

LOL, you didn't see that because you were like everyone else, to confused by then to read anymore!

I went over these rules in detail when I started my 10 Ball tour. I simply could not use those rules, we play Texas Express 10 ball.

Good call! These WPA rules really are unworkable. I would never use them in any Ten Ball tournament I put on.

 

[Cuebacca]

LOL, you didn't see that because you were like everyone else, to confused by then to read anymore!

LOL! Indeed. :thumbup:

I went over these rules in detail when I started my 10 Ball tour. I simply could not use those rules, we play Texas Express 10 ball.

Good call. I can only imagine that playing call shot in 9/10 ball would cause more problems than it would solve.

 

[madfox]

Here are the applicable WPA rules...
9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)
9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot as is, or hand it back to his opponent.

Am I to interpret these rules to mean that if a player calls a "safety" and then pockets any object ball, then his opponent has the option to hand it back?

Very interesting question. I am an European Pool Federation Rules Instructor for my country and when I read the first time this rules I popped out the same question to the WPA. The answer is that yes, the opponent has the option to give the table back. My opinion WPA tried with the 10 ball rules to eliminate completely the "luck" factor from the game,to make it very different comparing with 9 ball, so you have to be aware of all the results of your actions at the table before shooting. The funny thing is if you call the 10 ball in another pocket than the called one, 10 ball it is re spotted and the opponent will have the option to shoot or to give the table back.

 

[Vinnie]

Thanks for the clarification. I really like the call shot aspect of WPA 10-ball, so I wanted to make sure I was doing everything right. So I guess it doesn't matter if you call a safety or not, if you wrongfully make a ball, the opponent can hand it back. Calling "safety" is like saying "I am not calling a shot".:thumbup:

 

[Peter@CEP]

I too have struggled with this rule since I first saw 10 ball played in anger at the WPC last October.

I still don't understand why anyone would want to call safety, what is achieved?

You are not obliged to call a shot so why not just play the legal ball and endeavour not to pocket it.
Alernatively, you could call the legal OB and not pocket it so that play then passes to the opponent.

A safety shot in 8 ball is often used to pocket a ball and not to have to continue at the table afterwards, but this can't apply at 10 ball.

 

[Jayson]

Another stupid ass rule by the WPA.... surprise

 

[madfox]

I too have struggled with this rule since I first saw 10 ball played in anger at the WPC last October.

I still don't understand why anyone would want to call safety, what is achieved?

You are not obliged to call a shot so why not just play the legal ball and endeavour not to pocket it.
Alernatively, you could call the legal OB and not pocket it so that play then passes to the opponent.

A safety shot in 8 ball is often used to pocket a ball and not to have to continue at the table afterwards, but this can't apply at 10 ball.

I agree, they should of take out the safety, it is pointless as it is.