shaft size, does it matter?

[ShootingArts]

flat doesn't usually work

thank you and well ive been thinking if im going to use it to break only and well its going to have a phenolic tip i might play it pretty flat just to increase the sweet spot and get a solder hit. would a flat tip do that?

Flat doesn't usually work for people, I suspect because with usage the tip actually gets a little dented or concave and then you have to hit in one perfect spot. The low crown gives you the most margin of error, which is still very little.

The parabolic taper means that instead of a single curve near the joint you have an "S" curve. This somewhat resembles the top half of a coca-cola bottle before it starts tapering back smaller. This can add a lot of stiffness or spine to a shaft.

"Pro taper" is usually taken to mean no taper, a straight cylinder for that part of the shaft. In reality it seems most cue makers put a slight taper on this section for several very good reasons. It does increase stiffness but equally important is that it insures the shaft flexes as it should. Think of a fishing rod that flexes more near the tip and gradually flexes less and less as it goes back, then think if the fishing rod quit tapering or even started tapering back slightly larger about halfway up the fishing rod. With a perfectly straight pro section on a cue shaft normal usage, cleaning, and burnishing creates a bottle neck in the pro section over time.

If you are buying from an established cue maker he has settled on a shaft taper that works for his customers and himself. It may not have the parabolic taper I favor however there are other ways to skin that cat so don't worry about anything other than how the shaft hits for you. Typically a shaft built for a break shaft will not be quite as lively as a playing shaft, meaning you don't get as much vibration and feedback as with your playing shaft. the phenolic tip gives a ton of feedback and may counteract the lack of feedback in the shaft or it may not.

The break shaft should feel a little different from the playing shaft in my opinion because the primary goals are different. It is rarely productive to get very far from a center ball hit with a break cue and if you are hitting very far from center it is almost certainly at reduced speed at which time I would recommend breaking with your playing cue for increased control.

Hope I covered your post and PM here, if not feel free to ask further here or PM again.

Hu

 

[junkbond]

For what it's worth, I have both 13mm and 12.5mm shafts for my j/b cue. Both have phenolic tips. I prefer the 13mm for breaking and the 12.5 for jumping. it just seems to work better for me. Your mileage may vary.

 

[breakshot]

is your cue maker knowledgeable enough to give you advice, because there are many things that affect the way a cue will play (weight distribution, joint, tip, handle wood, length of taper, etc.) -If your cuemaker/assembler doesn't have a clue, I would shop elsewhereand find somebody who knows everything that there is to know about the product they are producing.

 

[axejunkie]

It's difficult to say what will perform better for you, but I think a larger shaft will generally be more durable for breaking. If you play a lot and break very hard, you might find that smaller shaft warping more easily.

 

[MitchAlsup]

With a thicker shaft, I would think there would be less deflection,

Thicker shaft equals more mass at the tip-end of the cue equals MORE deflection {unless the end is drilled out ala 314, Z, OB}.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The taper and profile have a great deal to do with how well a shaft transfers power too. If you like your twelve and a half mm playing cue you might consider the same size tip on your break cue, a little faster taper in the "pro section" and a parabolic arc near the joint to give it a little more spine.

Yes, for stiffness, taper matters much more than size. I play with a 10mm shaft, but because of its straight (conical) taper it has a stiffer hit than most 13mm shafts.

Decreasing the tip's radius effects the size of the sweet spot. If you rarely use much spin on break shots you might consider a quarter radius instead of a nickel or dime. I strongly recommend a nickel radius or larger, bigger sweet spot and a better transfer of force than a dime radius tip.

Yes again. Size of the tip doesn't change how "forgiving" it is on centerball break shots (at least not within 1/2 radius of centerball); how flat the tip is determines that. A perfectly flat tip (of any size) would be the most forgiving, but you'd only want to use it for centerball hits.

I don't know how a flatter tip transfers more power, unless it's because you'd hit centerball more consistently. I don't think the size of the contact area matters.

pj <- note to self: agreeing with Hu again... wtf?
chgo

 

[ShootingArts]

minor

I don't know how a flatter tip transfers more power, unless it's because you'd hit centerball more consistently. I don't think the size of the contact area matters.

pj <- note to self: agreeing with Hu again... wtf?
chgo

pj,

The flatter radius has less pounds per square inch of pressure put on it because the same force is spread out over a wider area. Distortion of the tip is reduced by both the wider contact area and the better support around the edges of the contact area. If you doubt the tip distorting, the flatter radius also minimizes the cue ball distortion. The less force lost to distortion, the more transferred.

The primary advantage is indeed the bigger sweet spot. What the other benefits are worth in total I don't have a clue. Definitely a little gain, not loss, so might as well go with the flatter tip.

Hu

 

[chin0]

You're so cute. I remember when I was a noob too... I still am in a lot of ways lol. You should save this post and look at it again in two years.

If you have trouble staying center (or slightly below center) on the break get a smaller shaft. If you have good fundamentals, a straight stroke, and a powerful break get a thicker shaft. This is all IMO of course.

I highly suggest you just try various break cues that people in your league or pool hall have available. Despite one shaft's physical characteristics and resulting advantages you may simply prefer another because it is more comfortable. You NEVER know until you try.

Oh and J&J break cues average about $60 shipped on here so GET ONE. It's always good to have a spare.

PM me and gve me some advice, I need all the advice I can get.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The flatter radius has less pounds per square inch of pressure put on it because the same force is spread out over a wider area.

This is the part I don't think matters. The same total force is delivered to the cue ball either way.

Distortion of the tip is reduced by both the wider contact area and the better support around the edges of the contact area. If you doubt the tip distorting, the flatter radius also minimizes the cue ball distortion. The less force lost to distortion, the more transferred.

I suspected this. I can believe more power is delivered by a flatter tip because of it.

Definitely a little gain, not loss, so might as well go with the flatter tip.

For centerball breaking (the kind I do), yes.

pj
chgo

 

[Rob_jerrylee]

Well this monday I'm taking both of my shafts in to get turned down my Mcdermott is 13 mm and my BK2 is 12.75 . There just to thick for me so I'm hopfuly going to solve the problem .

 

[ShootingArts]

trying to break things down too much

This is the part I don't think matters. The same total force is delivered to the cue ball either way.

I suspected this. I can believe more power is delivered by a flatter tip because of it.

pj
chgo

pj,

We aren't really disagreeing here. What is happening is that you are trying to break something down sentence by sentence when the first sentence and first half of the second sentence are too tightly connected to be broken down.

"The flatter radius has less pounds per square inch of pressure put on it because the same force is spread out over a wider area. Distortion of the tip is reduced by both the wider contact area . . . ."

We are looking at cause and effect here and the two can't be separated. The flatter tip results in less PSI creating less deformation resulting in better power transfer. That is a convoluted sentence that I broke down into two for readability.

There has to be power used to deform tip and/or cue ball and the only place that power can come from is the stroke. There is no magic to the flatter tip causing the stroke to generate more power. The same power is generated with either tip, the percentage of that power that is available to accomplish our goals varies slightly with the tip chosen.

If we must disagree, to split hairs the rounder tip doesn't deliver as much power to the cue ball for the uses we intended. More power absorbed by side effects means less available for the primary purpose. That is a tiny quibble concerning a small effect to begin with. The best we can come up with here seems to be a tiny tiny disagreement at most. :grin:

Hu