CTE ... the complete story

JMS said:
Dr Dave, not to be rude or anything but why don't you go and visit Stan Shuffet, Hal Houle or someone else that teaches CTE. Trying to learn CTE through written descriptions is only going to frustrate you. Learning CTE at the table is the easiest way IMHO.
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I spent many hours on the phone with Hal several years ago. I have also talked to Stan on the phone more recently. I have also tried everything they described to me. I have also read probably thousands of forum posts concerning CTE. It is still not clear to me how CTE works for a wide range of shots. Also, nothing I have heard or seen explains how CTE deals with the "issues" illustrated and described in my November '08 and December '08 BD articles.

Regards,
Dave
 
3kushn said:
The system is simple. Line up for CTE. If the cut angle is to the left, place your tip on the right side of the CB then pivot to center (not moving the bridge) and stroke the shot. Just the opposite for a shot angled to the right.
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Thank you for sharing your description. I've added it to the summary of descriptions.

What do you differently for the shots that "don't go" with these basic instructions (see the diagrams in my November '08 BD article)? Also, what do you do when you are forced (e.g., by a rail, an obstacle ball, or other shot requirements) to use a different bridge length (see Diagram 4 in my December '08 BD article)?

Thanks again,
Dave
 
8pack said:
This cte stuff is realy bizzar.do some people on here actualy think that you can line up cte through the center of the cueball place the cue off to one side or the other and come up with the correct angle to the pocket with no
ajustments?

Yep, I'm one that knows CTE works. It's not a cure all. It's not going to make a novice a World Champion. I still have some minor issues. But any standard shot < 85deg cut or so makes with CTE. When in stroke I can hit a nats ass using this system. I've literally aimed at specs of lint and it worked.

The problem is first belief. And second problem is Belief.

So is the there a formula for the bridge hand placement or is the a tweak after the pivot?


The pivot is the tweak.
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Pushout said:
With all due respect, why does it matter??
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That's a good point, but many of the CTE proponents claim it works well for a wide range of shots. From what I have heard, seen, and tried, it only works for a limited collection of shots (unless you make "intuitive" adjustments).

I just want people to be clear and honest ... and helpful.

Regards,
Dave
 
3kushn said:
So is the there a formula for the bridge hand placement or is the a tweak after the pivot?


The pivot is the tweak.
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So during the pivot, are you aiming by feel by "seeing the angle" of the shot or by just using intuition? Or is there some sort of procedure you can use (and teach) to pivot differently for different shots?

Thanks,
Dave
 
Fatboy said:
I dont understand why anyone would knock someone who is trying to help teach people, and not asking for anything in return. Its not like he is trapping people with a sales pitch here, he put in his time and effort and wants to share that, thats a positive thing for pool. If it helps one player play a littler better or gets someone interested in pool, then it was a good thing.

That is just plane rude and shows no class or respect at all. I'm not one to call names or point fingers, but it is so far out of line to knock Dave here. If you dont like it, Dont read it. But why knock it? Does it feel good to knock people? Honestly what motivates people to tear down what other people build? Dave is due a appology.

Thats one thing in pool I hate is the negitivity(and its wide spread), at the gym everyone is about personal growth and being positive and helping each other. That atmosphere breeds success. In pool its the oppsite. thats why pool has been in the shitter forever and will remain there until the people in pool show each other respect.

I realize that alot of people here dont like me, and I can handle that. I'm far from being perfect. But I will never knock another mans work/passion.
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I haven't really taken offense from any posts so far, but thank you for your sentiments.

Regards,
Dave
 
cookie man said:
They are just incorrect diagrams in relation to CTE, and the fact you havn't learned the system from a proper instructer muddies the info you put out. we've never got far discussing cte on here and don't expect too. This system has been rumered to have been around for alot of years, to be used by several pros, but only tidbits of info has been leaked to the public. WHY? don't know, but if I was putting info out for the world, and constantly refering people to it I would certainly try to make it right info. Stan shuffet is the only one I've heard of that has a good understanding of CTE and is willing to teach it. DR. dave you have alot of good info on your site, I just do not feel you do CTE any justice. I use portions of CTE but havn't been to see stan as of yet, and I can tell you it works, how why, can't explain, but it does.
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I've put in a lot of effort and time over the years to try to better understand the intricacies of CTE. I've talked to and communicated with many of the system proponents (including Hal and Stan).

For the record, I have not personally tried to summarize, illustrate, or explain CTE. I have only quoted what several of the CTE proponents have offered. Again, I would love to post a better explanation. If you are others are willing to offer a better, more accurate description, I would be more than happy to include it on my site. Are you willing to take a stab at it? It sounds like you are a firm believer.

Regards,
Dave
 
Neil said:
The purpose of aiming systems and other systems isn't to automatically make one great at the game. It just won't happen without a lot of time added in. ...

What the lessons and systems do is to help knock years of trial and error in some areas down to a minimum. ... They don't quarantee to work for everyone. We all see things just a little differently. But, for many, they help tremendously. That makes them a good thing for pool.
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Sounds good to me. I'd just like to know what CTE really is and how some people can make it work better than more traditional aiming. Do you have any thoughts on this? Some of the positives of CTE and similar systems have been suggested before, but the CTE proponents claim there is more to the system than this.

Regards,
Dave
 
3kushn said:
8pack said:
This cte stuff is realy bizzar.do some people on here actualy think that you can line up cte through the center of the cueball place the cue off to one side or the other and come up with the correct angle to the pocket with no
ajustments?

Yep, I'm one that knows CTE works. It's not a cure all. It's not going to make a novice a World Champion. I still have some minor issues. But any standard shot < 85deg cut or so makes with CTE. When in stroke I can hit a nats ass using this system. I've literally aimed at specs of lint and it worked.

The problem is first belief. And second problem is Belief.

So is the there a formula for the bridge hand placement or is the a tweak after the pivot?


The pivot is the tweak.
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Are you saying that a 45 degree shot can be made when the cb is place 1,then 2,3 ,4 daimond back,that you can make the shot with the exact same process,same bridge lenght,same everything ?

I have my table set up just for the purpose to learn this system the way cte is describe on this formum. There are 2 different place off center that get you right on the ghostball or pretty close on thin shots just as long as you dont get to close to the ob .You cannot repeat the same proccess and come up with every angle period.

Maybe you shouldnt blame your stroke on your bad shooting .its probably cte is your problem.

Alot of people claim that it works but the dont no why,the truth is if your doing the same thing over and your making balls is because your making it work.I dont mean anything bad towards you or anybody on this forum by my post ,this is just my opinion.
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Pushout said:
Johnson has been down on Hal Houle and CTE for years. He used to call Hal, and put down the system. Hal got so he could spot Johnson's number on his caller ID and not answer the phone. Just stirs up trouble.
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None of this is true.

And, by the way, my description of CTE as a placebo isn't a putdown. Maybe you don't understand that placebos have a useful and respected place in medicine, just as they apparently do in pool. It's just a succinct way to describe the way CTE works (yes, I agree it works for those who use it). Overreacting and oversensitivity is what cuts off conversation.

pj
chgo
 
8pack said:
If the bridge hand is placed in the same place with cte alignment it will not make all shots with out some extra move with the body or head after the pivot.

Put a ball in the middle of the table ,place the cueball near the spot where you break from.The shot is around a halfball hit.move the balls over to the left or right you want to make shot just a hair more than a halfball hit.

Now do cte till you make it ,remeber where you place your cue tip in relationship to cte . Now with out moveing the cb ,move the ob foward towards the rail 1 daimond.Now you have the cb in the same place but the ob
is 1 daimond closer to the rail which makes the angle even steeper.

The same placement of the bridge hand as the first shot pretty much makes the second shot even though the angle change,but if you move the cb closer to ob without moving the ob the same bridge placment will
not make the shot with out a ajustment.Move the ball over one daimond and the same bridgehand placement will not make the shot.

So is the there a formula for the bridge hand placement or is the a tweak after the pivot?
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Those are good questions. The diagrams in my November '08 BD article address this and other concerns. This is what is missing from the CTE descriptions I've heard and seen to date. Hopefully, somebody can offer something that addresses these questions.

Regards,
Dave
 
Pushout said:
We don't know why it works and unlike some here, don't care!!
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If you don't care, then why are you reading this thread? Nobody is forcing you to participate. I just hope some CTE users and proponents out there do care.

Regards,
Dave
 
Hi Dave, Great for sharing some info. I don't understand it at all really. But maybe if it were shown to me in person, Then I might be able to grasp it.
Have you got a video clip demonstating the aim system by chance? either the Dave or the cte system.
Thanks , Neil
PS it is quite funny reading some of the replies.
 
dr_dave said:
...The current descriptions and illustrations "lack completeness." I still hope somebody out there can describe (or illustrate or demonstrate) CTE in a simple way that makes sense and allows one to apply it to a wide range of shots (i.e., tell us how the "fine adjustments" are made for the "tweener shots"). Until I see that, I will have doubts like you do.

Regards,
Dave
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Actually, I've been pretty sure about how CTE and the other approximation systems work for quite a while - "placebos" is the shorthand description that comes closest, I think, but I guess it has some negative connotations that probably make it a non-starter in conversation with system users.

To understand how the term placebo fits, notice that all users of approximation systems believe the systems are "mechanical" yet none of them can describe the mechanics. I'm sure that sounds like a putdown to system users too, but compare it to what we call "playing by feel" or "playing in the zone" - we freely admit that's something we don't have conscious control over, yet it's a highly respected and sought-after state of mind. There's no need to be oversensitive to the idea that a system can help players "activate" their subconscious skills.

pj
chgo
 
PJ,

I'm tempted to add your quote to my CTE FAQ quote summary page, but I've gotten enough flack already about the "legitimate" quotes I've included already.

Regards,
Dave

Patrick Johnson said:
Here's the complete CTE story: it's not an aiming system; it's a confidence-building placebo. That doesn't mean it doesn't work for some people - placebos work for some people.

This is also why it can't be described by those who use it - they don't know it's a placebo. That's how placebos work.

pj
chgo
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