Push-out decision process

Andrew Manning

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
So here's the scenario: I broke, made a ball, and I'm hooked on the 1. I don't like my chances of kicking it in or making a successful kick-safe. So clearly, I'm pushing out.

The question is, what sort of thoughts should I be thinking while I'm deciding where to push? I know Danny D says at the pro level, it's a good idea to tie up balls on a push-out, but I don't play at the pro level, and I'm not sure whether this advice holds true for me. Even if it does, that still doesn't help me decide where I want to leave the cue ball.

What I'm hoping for are some strategic guidelines to follow when pushing out, because I'm kind of clueless on this and I often end up either leaving much too easy a shot for my opponent, or leaving myself in a sticky situation.

-Andrew
 
I'm just a wanna be A player who slipped in the alphabet, but... Part of my thought process:

Exploit where you excel and your opponent doesn't.

Most criteria usually comes down to:

- safety options from the pushed position
- long cuts
- banks
- if you're opponent can't resist accepting pushouts

If you don't know your opponent well, then you push to your strength.

Danny talking about tying up balls is new to me, and other than the obvious ("if I can't run out from here, I'll make sure you won't either") hopefully someone will expound on that!
 
My husband tells me to try to never leave them (or me, I guess ;)) the whole ball...
 
Where you push to partly depends on your opponent.

AKA if they completely suck you might as well push out to a straight in 1 ball and let them make the 1 and 2 and miss the 3 and then run them out.

If you are playing someone who cannot pot well leaving a long straight shot on a 1 ball with the cueball on the rail can often be to a benefit. Look to see how the shape plays on the 2, leaving a pottable ball but with no easy way to get shape can often make a player take the fools pot and either miss and leave you a shot where you can make shape, or they make it and the best they can then do is play safe.

If I am playing someone good I will often push to a safety barely better then 50%. Pushing is giving your opponent the option and control over the table, if you can force them to take on a relatively tough safety shot or force them to give you that safety shot that you have a 50% chance of hooking them on you have not done too bad.

Playing a push shot is not a benefit, you are losing control, so you want to make it as tough on the opponent as possible if they take the shot and if they don't take it you want to have a plan and a shot where you can gain back the control.
 
Okay, so what's your thought process on deciding where to push out after this break, playing a player who would run out from here if you gave them an easy shot on the 1?

CueTable Help



-Andrew
 
If the opponent plays better than I, I am knocking 4 into the 6/9 area, hoping to tie up something and permitting the shot on the 1ball to top r) pictured pocket. If he shoots, the CB goes into 2 ball area, so who knows what happens there.

That said, if my push is successful, I will be shooting the shot after it, coz the other guy plays better than I...!
 
Black-Balled said:
If the opponent plays better than I, I am knocking 4 into the 6/9 area, hoping to tie up something and permitting the shot on the 1ball to top r) pictured pocket. If he shoots, the CB goes into 2 ball area, so who knows what happens there.

That said, if my push is successful, I will be shooting the shot after it, coz the other guy plays better than I...!
Click to expand...

Would you make that last sentence a general rule? (i.e., If your opponent plays better than you, try to leave him a shot ugly enough that he'll give it back to you.)

-Andrew
 
Brian,

My best guess is pushing the cue ball into the three somewhat blocking the pocket so the one can not be banked in. It will also allow you to try to hide the cue ball if your opponent turns the push down.

Lyn
 
Andrew Manning said:
Would you make that last sentence a general rule? (i.e., If your opponent plays better than you, try to leave him a shot ugly enough that he'll give it back to you.)

-Andrew
Click to expand...


If I had to generalize, I'd actually say you choose a push that results in multiple innings when playing a better player.
 
There is no correct universal push strategy. It's going to vary according to your skill level and your opponent's skill level. There ARE some basics you want to keep in mind. Below is a short list of suggestions. I'm sure plenty of people here could add to the list.


1. When in doubt, think distance.
2. Never push to a jump shot that requires tricky position.
3. Never push the 9ball to a pocket
4. If the 1-ball is tied-up, do not tie it up more and bury it in the middle of a bunch of balls.

Always try to keep the layout in mind and manipulate it as best you can. If you feel it's inevitable that you'll leave a shot, perhaps you can pocket/tie-up a ball that will make the rack more difficult. It's okay to leave a kick-shot but make sure it's a manageable kick (a kick you are a 99% favorite to make contact with).
 
cardiac kid said:
Brian,

My best guess is pushing the cue ball into the three somewhat blocking the pocket so the one can not be banked in. It will also allow you to try to hide the cue ball if your opponent turns the push down.

Lyn
Click to expand...

Interesting idea, but I'm not sure where the name Brian came from?

I guess one problem I have pushing out is that I suck at playing safeties in 9-ball, so if there's a safe I'm likely to make, my opponent will probably just shoot it himself. I would think most people I play against would go ahead and hook me behind the 8 if I played your push.

-Andrew
 
I had made my decision on the OP, and then I read Black-Balled's reply, and they appear to be the same (brilliant minds thing going on ;)).

If Shave VB wants to cut the one in the corner and go for shape, then if he makes it, he earns it, but it's a biatch for anyone. If he gives it back to me, I'm at a better table than I started with IMO. There's a few options for safe here (perhaps overcut the 1 & get the cue down table with the 4,9, 6 blockade).

Oops, see cuetable that follows, I copied the original.
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
Danny talking about tying up balls is new to me, and other than the obvious ("if I can't run out from here, I'll make sure you won't either") hopefully someone will expound on that!
Click to expand...

Danny points out that at the pro level, the player who pushes out is usually not the player who's going to get the first good shot at the low ball. If your opponent is probably going to beat you to a shot on the low ball, you want to make sure the runout is quite difficult from there.

At my level, though, it's much less certain who's going to beat who to the shot, and if they're going to be able to run out from there anyway. This make it unclear to me whether I want the balls tied up or not.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
Okay, so what's your thought process on deciding where to push out after this break, playing a player who would run out from here if you gave them an easy shot on the 1?

-Andrew
Click to expand...

Mentioned above, this is not too bad. You are leaving only about half of the 1 ball visible, the 2 gets in the way of the cueball after contact on most easy safties, the pot on the 1-ball sucks, the 4 gets messed up if they manage to get control of the table. Your opponent is going to have a tough time getting a nice easy win from here, they probably wont even want to shoot but if they leave it to you a good shot has a chance of leaving them worse off.

CueTable Help

 
Jude Rosenstock said:
There is no correct universal push strategy. It's going to vary according to your skill level and your opponent's skill level. There ARE some basics you want to keep in mind. Below is a short list of suggestions. I'm sure plenty of people here could add to the list.


1. When in doubt, think distance.
2. Never push to a jump shot that requires tricky position.
3. Never push the 9ball to a pocket
4. If the 1-ball is tied-up, do not tie it up more and bury it in the middle of a bunch of balls.

Always try to keep the layout in mind and manipulate it as best you can. If you feel it's inevitable that you'll leave a shot, perhaps you can pocket/tie-up a ball that will make the rack more difficult. It's okay to leave a kick-shot but make sure it's a manageable kick (a kick you are a 99% favorite to make contact with).
Click to expand...

This is good information, of the type I was hoping for. Anyone have more of this type of specific guidelines?

-Andrew
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
I had made my decision on the OP, and then I read Black-Balled's reply, and they appear to be the same (brilliant minds thing going on ;)).

If Shave VB wants to cut the one in the corner and go for shape, then if he makes it, he earns it, but it's a biatch for anyone. If he gives it back to me, I'm at a better table than I started with IMO. There's a few options for safe here (perhaps overcut the 1 & get the cue down table with the 4,9, 6 blockade).

Oops, see cuetable that follows, I copied the original.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't shoot the 1 at the hole if the shot were returned to me. You will recall there was a condo built with the 4/6/9. I would play safe, either leaving the CB behind the 8 or somewhere around the 2 (hopefully leaving the need for a ladder, if the latter).
 
I would slow role the 3 ball towards or in the pocket and leave the cd near the pocket,closest to the rail as possible.He can't bank the 1 because of the 5, if he play safe to the end rail he is pushing the 1 towards the rail.
 
Andrew Manning said:
Interesting idea, but I'm not sure where the name Brian came from?

I guess one problem I have pushing out is that I suck at playing safeties in 9-ball, so if there's a safe I'm likely to make, my opponent will probably just shoot it himself. I would think most people I play against would go ahead and hook me behind the 8 if I played your push.

-Andrew
Click to expand...

Andrew,

That makes two of us! I must have been thinking of another poster on another thread.

Anyway, you did not tell us how well you kick. Trying to hide me behind the eight is not a good solution if your opponent accepts your push. I would expect to be stuck behind the three ball.

Lyn
 
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