An unusual thing just happened at the 14.1 pred

[realkingcobra]

The rules of 14.1 clearly state:

4.9 Standard Fouls
...

6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
For a foul under the second paragraph of 6.11, the cue ball is in hand behind the head string for the incoming player.​

One way to think of this is that the cue ball is still in hand because it has not left the kitchen. This rule has not been well defined before. The alternative is to call the cheap corner hook unsportsmanlike conduct and a forfeit (or perhaps just a 15-point foul). The cheap corner hook has never been an accepted part of the game.

Bob, a long time ago it was ruled that you can't use the side of your ferrel to tap the cue ball committing a foul as opposed to touching the cue with the tip of your cue to create a foul if the cue ball was stuck in the pack of balls to avoid moving the cue ball and making something playable, that was called unsportsmanlike conduct and against the rules...OK? The rules were never changed to prevent a player from taking his cue and come straight down on top of the cue ball and touch it with the tip of the cue to make the same foul...and not disturb the cue balls position.

ANY foul in 14.1 is any shot that is not a legal shot! The words "cheap" and "corner hooked" do not appear in any wording in the rules of 14.1, those words are of "personal" feelings. Accepted or not, there is NO ruling against taking this kind of a foul when playing 14.1...not as of today in the rules of 14.1 The facts are called "facts" because they're in black and white.....red if you want to change the color

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm simply debating the "RULES" of 14.1 and you ARE a good person to debate them with

Where does this safety foul fall under "Unsportsmanlike Conduct"?

6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.

 

[realkingcobra]

In Europe we use to play this shot all the time if you're opponent is leading you on fouls and plays this shot, follow up with the same shot.

If you're in the lead on fouls and your opponent makes this shot, shoot the cue ball out 2 cross side banks into the side of the rack, but not enough to break any balls into the clear, take the foul and dare your opponent to shoot the cue ball to the head of the table taking another foul...as you've disturbed the rack enough to be able to play a follow up safe from any where on the table

Personally, in one pocket I don't consider it to be a fair shot to jump the cue ball off the table while pocketing your opponents ball in his pocket therefor creating a foul that removes that point from being scored, I consider that to be an "unsportsmanlike" conduct, but a legal shot if you can make the cue ball scratch behind the opponents ball in the same pocket

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Glen,
You are correct there are no SPECIFIC rules under the 14.1 section for those infractions.
But, under your quoted section of 16.6 there are CLEAR instructions for Intentional/Deliberate FOULS that allow the REF to award the rack, game and or match depending on the severity.

In this case, as a ref I would give the incoming player BIH behind the headstring. You would be on a foul and Warning which could lead to a DQ.

Ref's judgment.

Maybe next year we can get the WPA to include the original wording for requirements to be met with BIH behind the head string. The way it is worded now gives the REF too much say in the outcome of a match.

Accepted or not, there is NO ruling against taking this kind of a foul when playing 14.1...not as of today in the rules of 14.1 The facts are called "facts" because they're in black and white.....red if you want to change the color

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm simply debating the "RULES" of 14.1 and you ARE a good person to debate them with

Where does this safety foul fall under "Unsportsmanlike Conduct"?

6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.

 

[realkingcobra]

Glen,
You are correct there are no SPECIFIC rules under the 14.1 section for those infractions.
But, under your quoted section of 16.6 there are CLEAR instructions for Intentional/Deliberate FOULS that allow the REF to award the rack, game and or match depending on the severity.

In this case, as a ref I would give the incoming player BIH behind the headstring. You would be on a foul and Warning which could lead to a DQ.

Ref's judgment.

Maybe next year we can get the WPA to include the original wording for requirements to be met with BIH behind the head string. The way it is worded now gives the REF too much say in the outcome of a match.

Tom, the rule is simple,

16.whatever...When starting with bih behind the head-string, the cue ball will not be considered in play until the cue ball first passes the head string in a forward motion which would cause the cue ball to pass the head-string by at least 50% except during the execution of a legal shot. Failure to do so, will require the player to shoot again without a foul until such motion has taken place.

Glen