What is the take on this design?

Cue Crazy

Cue Crazy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are these tapered tenons supposed to reduce tip weight? If not, what's the practical reason for It? I was trying to think of why they changed to these type ferrule designs, and the tip weight thing is the only thing I could come with other then making the tenon easy to run a thread dia over. There is no taper in the ferrule so I don't suspect It's due to a tapered tap being used.
 

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I'd vote for your ease of use thread die theory.

Martin



Cue Crazy said:
Are these tapered tenons supposed to reduce tip weight? If not, what's the practical reason for It? I was trying to think of why they changed to these type ferrule designs, and the tip weight thing is the only thing I could come with other then making the tenon easy to run a thread dia over. There is no taper in the ferrule so I don't suspect It's due to a tapered tap being used.
Click to expand...
 
Cue Crazy said:
Are these tapered tenons supposed to reduce tip weight? If not, what's the practical reason for It? I was trying to think of why they changed to these type ferrule designs, and the tip weight thing is the only thing I could come with other then making the tenon easy to run a thread dia over. There is no taper in the ferrule so I don't suspect It's due to a tapered tap being used.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the tenon but that is one scary looking chuck.
 
One question, is this from the factory this way, or somewhere along the way a repair job was done, and someone got carried away with a file? I'll take a stab at it and say that a repair was performed, and the repair guy couldn't get the ferrule to seat fully due to not using a bottoming tap to thread the ferrule, so he took a file, and made the tenon fit the threads.
Just my observation/judgement. To prove/disprove, take a 5/16-18 bolt and thread it in til it stops, then mark how far it went, then compare it to the tenon length. If it's shorter that the tenon, well, I'm right:grin-square:
if it's the same length, then I'm full of Sh**:eek:
Dave:wink:
 
macguy said:
I don't know about the tenon but that is one scary looking chuck.
Click to expand...



LOL, Yeah It's a darn good workhorse though, and has served me well. they have seen a lot of use, and I use It so often that They don't get cleaned as much as they should. Believe it or not I just went through the carriage, cleaned the bed and around early this past week, and it looks like a rat nest all around it again. Never see me claiming to be a neat freak on that lathe. I do need to break the chucks down, clean them and repack again though. Looks aside It still works well, and I can dial workpieces in where they need to be. Got a little ca or epoxy on the one jaw, and the hole for the tommy bar are a little worse for wear from using a t handle hex wrench to spin the chuck off the spindle when cleaning, but she still gets the job done.:grin: What's really scary is when I'm trying to break the chucks loose, It lets go and I bust My knuckles:wink:, but hey at least I know they are on there good, and the chuck is not going to fly off during use.:wink:



Thanks for Everyone's thoughts on the tenon, I guess maybe It is as simple as the thread dia thing. It was a flat laminated shaft, so I didn't know for sure, and didn't want to screw with the original design in case It was to reduce tip weight or something like that, so I just glued it back on for the guy, put a tip on It, then cleaned and pulled the dents as requested. He just picked this cue up from someone recently, So I guess I'll tell him to shoot with It and if It doesn't feel right to him, I can hook It up with a new ferrule. I don't know If he just wanted the tip changed or wasn't digging the feel of that ferrule. It was just loose enough that you could barely get it to lightly creak after several turns back and forth, so who knows. I had to heat it up with the piece of leather to back It off then tenon without damaging It, but It didn't take much, and it screwed right off. After gluing back on It's still running dead on with the shaft, so I decided to leave it alone until I talk to him. He is a new customer, needs it for a bar tourney tomorrow, and i have no way of getting a hold of him until his buddy picks the shaft up from me. The ferrule was on so tight that I warned him I may have to cut It off and that will ruin the ferule, so It may have needed to replaced for that reason, but since It came off easily and I was able to put It back on I didn't want to make that call without his go ahead.

Anyway, thanks again for the input.
 
Dave38 said:
One question, is this from the factory this way, or somewhere along the way a repair job was done, and someone got carried away with a file? I'll take a stab at it and say that a repair was performed, and the repair guy couldn't get the ferrule to seat fully due to not using a bottoming tap to thread the ferrule, so he took a file, and made the tenon fit the threads.
Just my observation/judgement. To prove/disprove, take a 5/16-18 bolt and thread it in til it stops, then mark how far it went, then compare it to the tenon length. If it's shorter that the tenon, well, I'm right:grin-square:
if it's the same length, then I'm full of Sh**:eek:
Dave:wink:
Click to expand...



I'm with ya There Dave, The tenon is way bigger then 5/16, but That was sort of another thought I had, although one look inside the ferrule didn't seem to show much reason for It, especially not that much of a taper, straight bore, threads went down most of the way, and the threads were not very defined, and could probably even be force threaded on the last couple of turns if need be, but I will say this, the face of the tenon was not square, so It could have been cut by hand. It didn't show any signs of being reglued though, in fact didn't seem to be enough glue in the first place. The tenon face not meeting the cap, well that also kind of made me wonder if It wasn't for reduced tip weight , because On the other low deflection shafts I have made new ferrules for, there basically is no real tenon face. just a air pocket behind the cap.
 
That looks like a Meucci. His theory is that the void at the end allows the ferrule to deflect slightly to help reduce squirt. Pretty sure the info is on the Meucci site. I may have it in one of the old news letters he sent out if I can find them.
 
Murray is correct. It's a Meucci Power Piston shaft.
The front of the ferrule compresses and flexes. Over time they break-down and collapse. Another Meucci Marvel idea.

You could have eliminated a lot of the guess-work by stating in the beginning that it was a Meucci shaft.
 
Murray Tucker said:
That looks like a Meucci. His theory is that the void at the end allows the ferrule to deflect slightly to help reduce squirt. Pretty sure the info is on the Meucci site. I may have it in one of the old news letters he sent out if I can find them.
Click to expand...


Winner, winner, chicken dinner! This is the way all Meuccis have been made since he started the Black Dot shaft.
 
Good call Murray, You figured It out. It is a PP. I've worked on lots of their cues over the years, but Most of them that I work on have the solid slip tenon, I've done a couple of pp's in the past, and think I may have even asked about one of them on here that the broken ferrule one time before. The whole time last night I had them in the back of My mind, but must have had a brain fart, because I didn't remember them having that taper, guess It just slipped My mind, although It was slightly in the back of It, and probably part of the reason I was asking about low deflection. Anyway I got to thinking about that after posting, and the fact that It's laminated, so I looked for the dot, and It is the one with a white center and the black ring border. Is that what signifies It as a PP?

After all was said and done the ferrule wasn't broken yet, and It is back to original. The guy has a Lucasi break/jump that I gave him a bumper for, so I'm hoping He uses it, and doesn't use The PP to break with.

On the Preds I stick with the original design when making a new ferrule, but have used titan, the cues I did that on originally had that material I think, I guess I should be using the maxlite, but I don't have any. I have been telling them not to break racks with the Titan, and most all of them admitted that's how the ferrules originally broke. I haven't had one come back yet, so I guess they are holding up, the ones I've seen since and know of are still holding.

I am curious as to how You guys usually attack these PP jobs when the ferrule is broken, do You stick with the original design, or make modifications to It? As far as I'm concerned It's ultimately up to the customer, so I guess what I'm asking is what do You recommend to them?
 
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