8 ball situation

[trustyrusty]

He is in the wrong, and this is why... In one of your posts, you said that you were playing call pocket. Yet, you did NOT call that pocket. And, it most definately is NOT an obvious call, just because you are near it. Therefore, since you did NOT call the pocket, and is NOT an obvious shot, (combos, caroms, jumps, banks, are NEVER considered obvious shots) it is now his turn. Doesn't really matter whether or not you called safe, you didn't call the shot.

that was my contention Neil....but I went ahead and tried to roll the 5 (while keeping the cueball where it was) towards the obvious pocket for the 8. I was off just enough for him to still make it though. After the way he acted during the whole thing made the overall win even sweeter though, so there's that.

I still think if I had tried to pocket the 7 and not called that pocket he'd have called me on it, and said it was his shot though (due to it not being OBVIOUS enough of a shot).

I learned my lesson on that situation, and won't let it happen again....

 

[trustyrusty]

It seems obvious that your are in the right since you're playing call pocket. However most shots are not normally called unless you're doing something unusual. Your opponent may not see the 7 ball following in as unusual so in honesty he may feel that he has some merit in his argument.

On the other hand I have seen something like this happen and the shooter says that he played it and wants to continue shooting because he has position on another ball.

In the future I would advise you to be more specific in these situations.

Now as to your shot selection with ball in hand I would have preferred to carom the 15 ball in off your 7 ball and using the 7 ball as a shield. This has less movement with the cue ball and it's a more effective safe.

man, I wish I had thought of that!!!! Would have saved a lot of aggrevation. lol Now, I have to go downstairs and shoot that shot a few times. Thanks!

 

[poolplayer2093]

you could either shoot the combo and duck behind the 5 or you could over cut the 5 and send the cue ball at the other end of the table (so he can't see the 15)

 

[trustyrusty]

you could either shoot the combo and duck behind the 5 or you could over cut the 5 and send the cue ball at the other end of the table (so he can't see the 15)

yep we'd been doing that for a couple of shots, but when he gave me ball in hand I decided to do your second option getting rid of that 15 once and for all and ducking behind the 5...when OOOPS, the 7 drops too. I like the dabarbr's idea (wish I'd thought of that!), and will practice that shot in case the situation presents itself again.

If I'da known the 7 would go (with the goofy angle it had) I would've just made it and stopped the cueball for the 5....oh well, thanks for the comments!

 

[poolplayer2093]

yep we'd been doing that for a couple of shots, but when he gave me ball in hand I decided to do your second option getting rid of that 15 once and for all and ducking behind the 5...when OOOPS, the 7 drops too. I like the dabarbr's idea (wish I'd thought of that!), and will practice that shot in case the situation presents itself again.

If I'da known the 7 would go (with the goofy angle it had) I would've just made it and stopped the cueball for the 5....oh well, thanks for the comments!

as long as you call safe i think it's the better shot. if you do it the other way your ball might not drop and you leave the other guy a shot at the 8

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

The rules are very confusing here and I'm actually a bit surprised that it's never been made clear. Had this been an offensive shot, failing to call the shot would have definitely left you in a difficult situation. The shooter is REQUIRED to call anything that isn't obvious which includes (but is not limited to) banks, caroms and combinations. However, this was not an offensive shot but a safety. The rules specifically state that safeties need to be called in advance otherwise, a pocketed ball will be assumed as an intended offensive shot. This is obviously a contradiction that the rulebooks fail to address.

The end result here is, your fate will rest in the referee's decision and there is no guarantee the two best referees in the world are going to rule the same way here. Personally, I think you're right. I think this was an obvious safety, not an obvious offensive shot but my opinion here matters little. If you ended up losing this argument, write it off as a lesson learned and make it a point to call your safeties from this point forward.

One of the most important lessons to learn about pool is protecting yourself against situations such as this. Force your opponent to beat you with his cue, not the rulebook.

 

[ykndoit]

4.2 CALL SHOT
In Call Shot, obvious balls and pockets do not have to be indicated. It is the opponent’s right to ask which ball and pocket if he is unsure of the shot. Bank shots and combination shots are not considered obvious, and care should be taken in calling both the object ball and the intended pocket. When calling the shot, it is never necessary to indicate details such as the number of cushions, banks, kisses, caroms, etc. Any balls pocketed on a foul remain pocketed, regardless of whether they belong to the shooter or the opponent. The opening break is not a “called shot.” Any player performing a break shot in 8-Ball may continue to shoot so long as any object ball is legally pocketed on the break.


I know this is not what you want to hear, but in a state tournament, we had the same concept called two different ways by two different referee's and the outcome was the same: It all depends on the concept of the incoming player, not the shooter. Since you did not call the shot or the safety, the incoming player gets to decide on what HE THOUGHT you were trying to do.

The referee asked the incoming players about the shots, one player said that they didn't call a safety, and forced our player to shoot again. the other player said they thought it looked like a safety and didn't call the shot and their player got to shoot.

So, best advice as I'm sure you know now, call everything!!!

 

[Cornerman]

Last nite in league I had a situation playing barbox 8ball that was contested (and I lost the argument). Wanted to see how others would see it.

I had solids - CUETABLE added to 3rd post - and had the 5 and 7 near the upper right hand corner (if breaking). My opponent had the 15 in that corner in the jaws. I also had the 2 ball about mid table nearer the left side pocket. I purposely missed a ball up towards the left had top corner for a break out ball yet leaving him no real shot on the 15 (8 and 5 balls blocking one kick - 7 ball blocking the other). He knocked in that ball (the 2) giving me ball in hand. I shot my 7 into his 15 pocketing it and hooking near frozen behind the 5 ball (exactly what I wanted), but here's the conflict....I didn't expect the 7 to fall as well, and it did. I did not call safe or call a pocket for the 7 (which apparently can be implied). He said he assumed I wanted to make the 7 as well and it was my shot (he had a really tough kick just to hit the 8 ball). His teammates admitted it was obvious that I was trying to snuggle the cueball up too the 5 ball, but I should have called safe. My opponent stuck to the story of it NOT being obvious what I was doing for arguments sake, which is the only thing about the whole situation that ticked me off.

While I agree that calling safe would have taken care of everything, I still cannot believe my opponent would use the argument that he thought my intent was to pocket the 7 ball in the obstructed corner - he KNEW what I was doing, and took advantage of my ball falling as well. So, the question is, how can an opponent assume my intent on the table in pocketing a ball when I did not call a pocket, and still call me on not calling safe? I didn't call safe - true, but I didn't call a pocket for 7 the either....

I guess the answer might be that you ask your opponent what he would have done if you actually had gotten shape and prepared to continue shooting. I'm sure he would have said that you didn't explicitly call the pocketed ball land that you don't get to keep shooting.

The ball wasn't obvious, so you should know better anyway that this could have happened. Call the safety. But, I'm still siding with you if I was the referee. You didn't call the pocketed ball, you don't continue shooting.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

The shooter is REQUIRED to call anything that isn't obvious which includes (but is not limited to) banks, caroms and combinations.

Good point. The rules committee might want to add something to the effect of "and safeties" to the "non-obvious shots" list. That might solve a lot of this. Force a player to call all safeties or at least call non-obvious safeties (like when a bank, combination, carom, is possibly on).

Fred

 

[Marcl3954]

You didn't call a safe and pocketed on of your balls.
Chalk it up to experience and call your safe next time.