Please Help with this 2-Ball Pattern

[mullyman]

I prefer to get fancy and use a touch of masse on this shot.....

CueTable Help

Come on, people, it's a straight back draw shot. With ball in hand you'd have to be a real punter to even think about bringing those side pockets into play. Following up to the top corner would be advisable for someone that doesn't have much confidence in their draw shot. There are no other shots for this if you have ball in hand. There are plenty of ways to make it but there are only 2 "best" shots.
MULLY

 

[donny mills]

No, not really. While I can do the shot without much difficulty, it seems that that type of shot on thing that can go wrong with it is the cueball hitting the side rail with a little too much ooomph and now you have the cue ball running straight at the nine ball lining up for a hard cut. The cue ball looks like it is 12-13" off of the side rail and the 8 ball is one full ball away from the side rail.

I practice an old shot that Buddy Hall made popular with one of his instructional videos where the object ball is on the first side rail diamond, one ball's width away from the side rail and the cue ball is behind the headstring and you have to draw the cue ball back across the table to the middle diamond on the other side of the table. Heck, let me go to www.cuetable.com and draw a diagram.

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If I can do that fairly consistently, I don't see how I could shoot the other shot any other way.

This is the shot that Buddy says, "This is not a draw shot, this is a SPIN SHOT!".

Hope to see you at the DCC. If you get in the commentary booth with me, you know I will be requiring you to sign the legally binding, JoeyA "POOL SECRETS" contract. :yeah:

JoeyA

I don't know. If you don't shoot it either of the ways I said, in the future I might be forced to miss my grandmothers bday and catch a plane to brazil to play you some.

I actually like spinning it off the rail for 2 reasons 1. I wont have to shoot the 9 off the rail. and 2. I'm guaranteed to be on top of the 9 and not underneath it.

If I make it to derby it's a deal.

 

[donny mills]

I prefer to get fancy and use a touch of masse on this shot.....

CueTable Help

Come on, people, it's a straight back draw shot. With ball in hand you'd have to be a real punter to even think about bringing those side pockets into play. Following up to the top corner would be advisable for someone that doesn't have much confidence in their draw shot. There are no other shots for this if you have ball in hand. There are plenty of ways to make it but there are only 2 "best" shots.
MULLY

Straight draw is imo way harder than spinnin back off the rail. How are any sidepockets in play with the other shot?

 

[accustatsfan]

Straight draw is imo way harder than spinnin back off the rail. How are any sidepockets in play with the other shot?

Come on any banger can make that shot. lol

I'm a sucker I thought your draw off the rail down table was the way to go.

 

[JoeyA]

I don't know. If you don't shoot it either of the ways I said, in the future I might be forced to miss my grandmothers bday and catch a plane to brazil to play you some.

I actually like spinning it off the rail for 2 reasons 1. I wont have to shoot the 9 off the rail. and 2. I'm guaranteed to be on top of the 9 and not underneath it.

If I make it to derby it's a deal.

It's always great to hear what a professional is thinking about when he is clearing the table. Your thoughts make great sense. Thanks for sharing. I'll try the shot your way (spinning off the rail) twenty or thirty times to see how I like it.

JoeyA

 

[Cory in DC]

One more option

I don't think anyone posted this option yet, but it's one that I like. A little top with some left English -- gives shape going into and out of the target zone and the third rail will kill the CB. No scratches are in play. You just have to make sure the CB hits the first rail far enough to the left (as seen from the shooter's position).

Any less space between the rail and 8 ball and the cross-over shot with low outside seems like the best bet.

Cory

CueTable Help

 

[Mike Templeton]

I'm with Fred and philw..............

Mike

 

[mullyman]

Straight draw is imo way harder than spinnin back off the rail. How are any sidepockets in play with the other shot?

Then you should work on your draw shots.

Are you talking about cutting it at a slight angle and drawing back up the rail? If so, yeah, I don't see anything wrong with that. It wouldn't be my first choice but I surely wouldn't say it's a bad decision. Going across table and spinning up table though....sorry, it's way too easy to over hit that shot and go past the 9. Not to mention get a little aggressive with your draw or a little laxxed with your spin and you bring that side pocket into play.

I'm not fond of going 3 rails around for the exact same reason of possibly over running it, or God forbid, under hitting it.

There seems to be quite a few "You can do it like this" posts when in all fairness, you can do it like that, but you shouldn't. The highest percentage on this shot, with ball in hand, is drawing straight back....unless you're a midget and can't reach past the side pocket.
MULLY

 

[JoeyA]

The final word.

The best way to shoot this shot is the way that you can make it the most consistently.

While it may not be the best way for some people to shoot it, whichever shot you are the most comfortable with, is what you should use. That being said, I will be practicing, spinning off the rail. The other shots I have down pat.

Father Joe

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I don't think anyone posted this option yet, but it's one that I like. A little top with some left English -- gives shape going into and out of the target zone and the third rail will kill the CB. No scratches are in play. You just have to make sure the CB hits the first rail far enough to the left (as seen from the shooter's position).

CueTable Help

Actually, the scratch in the upper right corner pocket is very much in play, and the angle you show into the first rail is aimed pretty close to it (the modified diagram below shows the path in black).

To avoid that scratch you need to hit farther to your left on the first rail (by hitting a little lower on the CB), as shown here by the path in red:

CueTable Help

pj
chgo

 

[TSW]

Great thread. Who would've thought there would be so much disagreement on an open-table two-ball run?

For me, if it's hill-hill and I HAVE to get out, I shoot the straight follow. If I'm practicing and not tense, I probably shoot the two-rail Z-shape draw. I don't like the straight draw given where the 9-ball is because it's too easy to over-draw or under-draw and wind up awkward on the 9.

The two-rail shot is the most common in a run-out scenario, but under the gun I'd prefer not to have to balance the variables of draw, english, and speed. The follow is simpler.

Granted, if the table is playing very difficult (e.g., 4" or tighter pockets), I might play it differently.

 

[mullyman]

This next one is a little tricky, but if you're awesome......like me, you can probably make it 3 out of 5. It takes a firm stroke and a touch of left spin.
MULLY

CueTable Help

 

[mullyman]

Great thread. Who would've thought there would be so much disagreement on an open-table two-ball run?

For me, if it's hill-hill and I HAVE to get out, I shoot the straight follow. If I'm practicing and not tense, I probably shoot the two-rail Z-shape draw. I don't like the straight draw given where the 9-ball is because it's too easy to over-draw or under-draw and wind up awkward on the 9.

The two-rail shot is the most common in a run-out scenario, but under the gun I'd prefer not to have to balance the variables of draw, english, and speed. The follow is simpler.

Granted, if the table is playing very difficult (e.g., 4" or tighter pockets), I might play it differently.

I see nothing wrong with following it to the upper corner instead of shooting into that lower corner and drawing back. In all fairness, controlling the length of the follow is much easier than the length of the draw. But, for myself, I figure anywhere past that side pocket I can make that 9 with confidence so I wouldn't put so much juice on it that I'd draw past the 9. I'd be aiming for the first diamond past the side pocket. If I over draw that I'm still in good shape. In my opinion, of my own game, with ball in hand I'm out 9/10 with this one.
MULLY
I say 9 out of 10 instead of 10/10 because no one is perfect and things happen. But, I honestly feel 10/10 in my heart.

 

[JoeyA]

CueTable Help

OK, in the above layout,I've positioned the 8 ball one ball's width from the side rail and between the two diamonds on the side rail. I have also moved the 9 ball to the bottom rail.

With the 9 ball sitting on the bottom rail I can let my stroke out and get PERFECT shape almost every time, letting the cue ball come to rest of the head rail.

I practiced the original shot and because the 9 ball WAS originally 12" off the head rail, I still like my original shot as shown below:

CueTable Help

I can make this shot VERY consistently. If I use Donny's slight spin off of the side rail with the shot not quite straight in, I can sometimes find myself hitting the rail a little harder than I expected and can sometimes find the cue ball sitting on the bottom rail or running straight at the 9 ball.

Donny, you are the man! I really like hitting the cue ball with lots of draw and a smidgeon of right hand spin. The cue ball comes down the side rail like it has a laser beam guiding it. I'll always remember this as Donny's shot and when I make PERFECT shape, which I know I will, I'll wail loudly, "THANK YOU DONNY!" and everyone will think I'm nuts and wonder "Donny Who?".

JoeyA

 

[donny mills]

Then you should work on your draw shots.

Are you talking about cutting it at a slight angle and drawing back up the rail? If so, yeah, I don't see anything wrong with that. It wouldn't be my first choice but I surely wouldn't say it's a bad decision. Going across table and spinning up table though....sorry, it's way too easy to over hit that shot and go past the 9. Not to mention get a little aggressive with your draw or a little laxxed with your spin and you bring that side pocket into play.

I'm not fond of going 3 rails around for the exact same reason of possibly over running it, or God forbid, under hitting it.

There seems to be quite a few "You can do it like this" posts when in all fairness, you can do it like that, but you shouldn't. The highest percentage on this shot, with ball in hand, is drawing straight back....unless you're a midget and can't reach past the side pocket.
MULLY

Lol I can draw pretty good actually. If the 9 was about 3 or 4 inches closer to the end rail then I would draw it straight back because I have the end rail as a target. Depends wherre the 9 is.

 

[donny mills]

CueTable Help

OK, in the above layout,I've positioned the 8 ball one ball's width from the side rail and between the two diamonds on the side rail. I have also moved the 9 ball to the bottom rail.

With the 9 ball sitting on the bottom rail I can let my stroke out and get PERFECT shape almost every time, letting the cue ball come to rest of the head rail.

I practiced the original shot and because the 9 ball WAS originally 12" off the head rail, I still like my original shot as shown below:

CueTable Help

I can make this shot VERY consistently. If I use Donny's slight spin off of the side rail with the shot not quite straight in, I can sometimes find myself hitting the rail a little harder than I expected and can sometimes find the cue ball sitting on the bottom rail or running straight at the 9 ball.

Donny, you are the man! I really like hitting the cue ball with lots of draw and a smidgeon of right hand spin. The cue ball comes down the side rail like it has a laser beam guiding it. I'll always remember this as Donny's shot and when I make PERFECT shape, which I know I will, I'll wail loudly, "THANK YOU DONNY!" and everyone will think I'm nuts and wonder "Donny Who?".

JoeyA

The first lay out I would just draw it straigt back or what you did in the second. The second lay out is the shot I think.

 

[donny mills]

Then you should work on your draw shots.

Are you talking about cutting it at a slight angle and drawing back up the rail? If so, yeah, I don't see anything wrong with that. It wouldn't be my first choice but I surely wouldn't say it's a bad decision. Going across table and spinning up table though....sorry, it's way too easy to over hit that shot and go past the 9. Not to mention get a little aggressive with your draw or a little laxxed with your spin and you bring that side pocket into play.

I'm not fond of going 3 rails around for the exact same reason of possibly over running it, or God forbid, under hitting it.

There seems to be quite a few "You can do it like this" posts when in all fairness, you can do it like that, but you shouldn't. The highest percentage on this shot, with ball in hand, is drawing straight back....unless you're a midget and can't reach past the side pocket.
MULLY

Scratch in the side!? No way not me. I'd bet out of 100 shots I never scratch in the side.

 

[JoeyA]

The first lay out I would just draw it straigt back or what you did in the second. The second lay out is the shot I think.

If you set up the shot JUST the way I have it depicted, your straight draw, WON'T get the job done as often as the draw with a pinch of right side spin. The cue ball is one diamond off of the side rail and one diamond before the side pocket. I tried the straight draw and sometimes the cue ball would come too close to the 9 ball. With a pinch of right spin, that seldom happens.

JoeyA

 

[donny mills]

If you set up the shot JUST the way I have it depicted, your straight draw, WON'T get the job done as often as the draw with a pinch of right side spin. The cue ball is one diamond off of the side rail and one diamond before the side pocket. I tried the straight draw and sometimes the cue ball would come too close to the 9 ball. With a pinch of right spin, that seldom happens.

JoeyA

Exactly you understand what I mean. Little shots like this add up and it makes people play more consistent.

 

[mullyman]

Scratch in the side!? No way not me. I'd bet out of 100 shots I never scratch in the side.

Of course you wouldn't scratch a once out of a hundred tries......if you're trying to prove you won't scratch. Also, let us not forget that the person asking the question obviously doesn't have the best cueball control.....or she wouldn't be asking. I've seen many B and C players trying to come across table on a shot like this and drop it right in the side. It happens and for anyone to say that the side pocket doesn't come into play obviously plays on tables where there is no side pocket there. If the cue ball goes across table the side pocket is a possibility.

Me, if this shot came up a hundred times I may draw it straight back some of the time and I may come across table some of the times. I can't say that I've never done the cross table shot with ball in hand.
MULLY