Update on the Des Moines pool scene

SKUNKBOY said:
No Jason, You're thinking of Kent Zirtsman, he's a good player too. I think you met me last year in Waterloo.

I met Troy at a tournament Wednesday night at the Corner Pocket in CR. We played each other and he lucked out...I mean beat me...out of the winners side.

I played in the Seniors event so I doubt you played against me(I did finish third in the 9-ball though).

Troy, it was good to meet you too. We'll definitely have to have that All Iowa AZB tournament now. Revenge is sweet!:D

L8R...Ken
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Oh, I did luck out. The best shot I saw all week was by Ken on wednesday. He had the gaff shot where a ball is frozen to the center diamond on the bottom rail and the cue ball straight above it. It was a couple balls closer to the corner pocket but he did hit it awesome (spun it in) and would have won if he had shape on his last ball.
 
SKUNKBOY said:
No Jason, You're thinking of Kent Zirtsman, he's a good player too. I think you met me last year in Waterloo.

L8R...Ken
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Yeah Kent, thats right. For some reason i just can't put a face with your name. I am sorry for that.

Mike thats funny ! I need to appeal my rating since i moved to masters by getting a 3rd. and i play so bad i don't even want to play masters, lol. I just can't afford to lose an extra $150 every year with next to no chance of cashing, lol.
 
Jason, you do know the Masters is handicapped this year. Any current Master that has never cashed will play to 5, all those that cashed race to 6 and Elites go to 7. You should have a fighting chance with those match ups. Heck, I might match up with some of those Master with that spot(Mikey...not Hargens though...I'd need 4 to 8 and all the breaks from him).

In all fairness to Scott, he hasn't been playin much this year but we need to look at a person capabilities, not how their doing right now. If somebody was rated lower than their capability, it's possible they could step up their play and kill the opposition...that's what we don't want to happen. We want to see everyone's 'A' game and that will take some practice time on their part.

Troy...that was a pretty shot...too bad I can't do that but once in twenty tries.

See you guys in a couple of weeks.

L8R...Ken
 
SKUNKBOY said:
Jason, you do know the Masters is handicapped this year. Any current Master that has never cashed will play to 5, all those that cashed race to 6 and Elites go to 7. You should have a fighting chance with those match ups.

L8R...Ken
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When i moved to masters in like 2005 i think ? I don't think i ever played in the masters. Thought it was a waste. (confident i know)

That is an awesome adjustment though. Hope if i still qualify i can take advantage of it and snap off someone who doesn't expect it !
 
Yeah...aint that how you got the title 'The Locksmith'? Knocking off some unsuspecting individuals who weren't expecting a 'game' from you. Talk about flying under the radar. JK

L8R...Ken
 
SKUNKBOY said:
Yeah...aint that how you got the title 'The Locksmith'? Knocking off some unsuspecting individuals who weren't expecting a 'game' from you. Talk about flying under the radar. JK

L8R...Ken
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No he got the name Locksmith from having good timing and a bank roll!!! Also well placed bursts of trash talk in the direction of people who have money to bet.
 
SKUNKBOY said:
Yeah...aint that how you got the title 'The Locksmith'? Knocking off some unsuspecting individuals who weren't expecting a 'game' from you. Talk about flying under the radar. JK

L8R...Ken
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Its funny because i am a masters player in bca/ispa and vnea. I got there by getting a 3rd, 4th and 9-12th(multiple years trying mind you). I've only played VNEA masters since, and have no cashes in 2 years. I am pretty much a pathetic player. :/

Mike :D
 
So, why doesn't the ISPA/BCA have DIAMOND tables for the state tourney?!! Why wouldn't you have the same equipment in the state tourney as what we have in the national tourney? Are you guys to tight to get good tables?! The BCA is known for having the best tables for all their tournaments, so why can't Iowa get out of the dark ages and get in line with the national standard? I hope we don't have to play on the same junk as we did in the VNEA tourney!! Those tables were not set up right...the side rails were all set to high, which in turn deadened the ball after hitting the rail. After playing on those tables it felt good today to hit balls on the old diamonds at Big Dog's! Time for an update there too I think!!
 
It basically comes down to service. They can get Diamonds about the same as others but the 'running' of the tournament is the issue. Gary provides his services along with the tables.

Seems like a nich for someone to get into.

At least that is what I recall from past discussions. Maybe Ken can shed more light.
 
First off...Jon...the ISPA is NOT associated with the BCAPL. The ISPA is an independent organization in Iowa for Iowa players. The ISPA is not affiliated with any National League Association.

We did get a quote from Diamond for tables a couple of years ago. The price was virtually the same. It was concluded that since most of the tables used in Iowa for leagues were Valleys, and (at that time) all of the tables at all of the National tournaments were Valley (mostly provided by High Conntry Promotions) that we should stick with the Valley tables.

And no, we won't be using the same tables. Gary Benson of High Contry owns his own tables. They are the same tables he uses for the National tournaments (all but the BCAPL use these tables). If I remember correctly, he uses Mercury cloth on these tables and they are usually in good condition.

I really don't think the tables are much of an issue at the ISPA Tournament. They are well maintained, level and use good cloth. Sure, they don't play the same as Diamonds, but they don't play the same as Brunswick either. Maybe when we move to DM, you can swing a better deal with Diamond and we'll switch. I wouldn't say that is out of the question.

Hope to see you all in Davenport...Ken
 
SKUNKBOY said:
First off...Jon...the ISPA is NOT associated with the BCAPL. The ISPA is an independent organization in Iowa for Iowa players. The ISPA is not affiliated with any National League Association.

We did get a quote from Diamond for tables a couple of years ago. The price was virtually the same. It was concluded that since most of the tables used in Iowa for leagues were Valleys, and (at that time) all of the tables at all of the National tournaments were Valley (mostly provided by High Conntry Promotions) that we should stick with the Valley tables.

And no, we won't be using the same tables. Gary Benson of High Contry owns his own tables. They are the same tables he uses for the National tournaments (all but the BCAPL use these tables). If I remember correctly, he uses Mercury cloth on these tables and they are usually in good condition.

I really don't think the tables are much of an issue at the ISPA Tournament. They are well maintained, level and use good cloth. Sure, they don't play the same as Diamonds, but they don't play the same as Brunswick either. Maybe when we move to DM, you can swing a better deal with Diamond and we'll switch. I wouldn't say that is out of the question.

Hope to see you all in Davenport...Ken
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Ken I think moral of the story is if we had some Pro Cut Diamond Bar Tables to play on the competition would be much tougher. 4.5 inch pockets with a deep shelf would make anyone earn it. The fact that no one plays on those tables IMHO is a bonus. You'd get more hanging balls and far less runouts from everywhere. If the price is virtually the same, why not give it a try for a year and see how people feel about the Diamonds. The Valley's are too easy for most guys.
 
I do remember diamond tables one year in Waterloo, but it has been a while. Like 2000?

I think that as long as we are independent, we have the best options available. We are not tied to any one vender, we can do as we choose.

Gary runs a good tournament -- I think the things he brings to the table besides the "tables" are what leads the board to lean in his direction. They don't have to invest their somewhat 'limited' manpower into basics of running the tournament and focus on administering the aspects of our organization.

As I said before, this could be a nich for someone. Get 200 Diamonds and contract your services.

When, if, maybe, we get moved to DM or a venue with more space to expand, I can see Diamond having more 'weight' in a quote, due to being able to get some great 9' tables, etc. I would even pay a bit more, if it meant having nice quality equipment.

I will say that last year, the tables weren't exactly 'stellar' by any means. The cloth had been used prior, the balls weren't the greatest. I really wish we could get away from the valley ball and into a system with red circles. I haven't been as impressed with tables at ISPA for a few years. JMO.

Except for the rails being off, the tables at Valley were nice. Once the cloth got broke in a bit, it worked pretty well. It's nice to get a nice tight rack the first time, and no roll off. Doesn't happen at league much.

And for the record, I think the arguement for using Valley tables just cause that is what we most leagues play on is bunk. If that's the philosophy we want to take, then I want chipped balls, beer stains and unlevel tables like we play on week-in, week-out. And nappy cloth.

A State tournament should be played on premium equipment. JMO
 
Thanks Ken for responding to my post. I guess the point I was trying to get across was that Iowa should be on the same level as the other states as far as equipment. Having the best tables just means better pool. When I lived in Fargo, ND there was a time when we just played on Valley tables only. We would go to state and play on Diamonds, and we felt spoiled. I think you would get the same response from most, not all, but most league players in Iowa. If there is a move to Des Moines, I believe that would be a perfect time to switch. How soon would that move potentially happen?

Also, are we playing with red circle cue balls this year at the ISPA tourney?
 
SKUNKBOY said:
Jason, you do know the Masters is handicapped this year. Any current Master that has never cashed will play to 5, all those that cashed race to 6 and Elites go to 7. You should have a fighting chance with those match ups. Heck, I might match up with some of those Master with that spot(Mikey...not Hargens though...I'd need 4 to 8 and all the breaks from him).

In all fairness to Scott, he hasn't been playin much this year but we need to look at a person capabilities, not how their doing right now. If somebody was rated lower than their capability, it's possible they could step up their play and kill the opposition...that's what we don't want to happen. We want to see everyone's 'A' game and that will take some practice time on their part.

Troy...that was a pretty shot...too bad I can't do that but once in twenty tries.

See you guys in a couple of weeks.

L8R...Ken
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You want to see everyone's "A" game? I'm curious why you petitioned out of the Masters then? I mean, you should be up there with the big boys constantly challanging yourself Ken...you know you play good enough.

As far as my game goes...yes, last year was a hell of a year for me, I was able to go to more tournaments than ever before and it showed....but with kids in traveling sports, trying to be a good husband, and working a full time job it's been impossible for me to get out much....the whole problem with the Elite list is,in my opinion there are only a few "Elites" in Iowa anyway...Jesse, Josh, Barraks, Kitto, Vilmont and Whitey....with the exception of these guys, is a short race format (5 or 6 for 8ball) just about any Master can win! Wouldn't it also mean a little more if you actually beat the best players in the state instead of a watered down version? It is a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP. If I beat Usain Bolt in the 100m at the Olympics because he spotted me 60m,I wouldn't go around bragging that I was the fastest man in the world! Oh well....Rant complete!:banghead:
 
SnapdaNine said:
....the whole problem with the Elite list is,in my opinion there are only a few "Elites" in Iowa anyway...Jesse, Josh, Barraks, Kitto, Vilmont and Whitey....with the exception of these guys, is a short race format (5 or 6 for 8ball) just about any Master can win! Wouldn't it also mean a little more if you actually beat the best players in the state instead of a watered down version? It is a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP. If I beat Usain Bolt in the 100m at the Olympics because he spotted me 60m,I wouldn't go around bragging that I was the fastest man in the world! Oh well....Rant complete!:banghead:
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I agree. Do away with the Elite list. Let's have a true State championship, where the best player in the state wins. Going to state to play in a handicapped tournament does not appeal to me at all.
 
Pretty busy lunch hour...

Jon...I'm all for using diamond tables...it was me that initiated the cost comparison a couple of years ago. I am not the only person that makes the decisions though and I got over-riden. I doubt we'll be supplying red circle cue balls all though I would prefer those myself. Again, not my decision to make.

Scott...I am close to where I was before my accident in 2004. My elbow still prohibits me from performing 100%. I did stay in the Masters for a couple years after the accident and could see a noticable difference (2 and out each year). I moved out of the Masters to play in the Seniors...I will not play in the Open Divisions, I think I'm somewhere between Open I and Masters...that would be Seniors. I do agree with your assessment of the Elites too. I have always said there are only so many Masters and so Many Elites in Iowa, but the voting members want to get as many players in the Master Division as possible...for the money. I wish we could play for a trophy and forget the money, then you'd see who really want to be the State Champion instead of who want to see the money. (end of my rant)

I heard an idea the other day on here...Richardson or Deadstroke7 made it I believe. The idea was an OPEN DIVISION where anyone could play. I am mulling this idea over in my mind. If we eliminated the Elites (those 5-6 players that are Elites) form our Masters Division, had a true Masters Division (no Elites/no handicaps) and allowed for an Open Division for the Elites to play in as well as some of the Masters (or anyone else from Iowa for that matter) that want the challenge. The unfortunate part would be participation. I'd be surprised if 16 players would show up. This is basically what we tried with the Elite Tournament...allowing outsiders to play. That sure didn't work. All we did there was throw some money to the big fish and shorted the guppies.

I like to think of the Division that we have created in a similar light as school...Level II Open is the bigginers, the entry level of play...like grade school. Open Level I is High School, Master College and Elites are the Professionals in the field...they can make a living doing that job. But, some don't see it that way and some need to down play thier skill level just so they can win...like having a 200 pound high school aged kid playing football on a grade school team. (OK, end of that rant too).

Thanks for all of the comments and opinions. I am getting ideas from all...some good, some not so good. Keep them coming. I really wish this type of info could be expressed or conveyed on the ISPA web site. I really think that is where it belongs but since only a couple of you guys ever visit that site, it probably wouldn't be as interesting.

Sorry for 'stealing' you post Mikey. Maybe it should say "Update on the Iowa Pool Scene". But that's OK, we all appreciate the post and this talk don't hurt nothin'.

L8R...Ken
 
SKUNKBOY said:
Pretty busy lunch hour...

Jon...I'm all for using diamond tables...it was me that initiated the cost comparison a couple of years ago. I am not the only person that makes the decisions though and I got over-riden. I doubt we'll be supplying red circle cue balls all though I would prefer those myself. Again, not my decision to make.

Scott...I am close to where I was before my accident in 2004. My elbow still prohibits me from performing 100%. I did stay in the Masters for a couple years after the accident and could see a noticable difference (2 and out each year). I moved out of the Masters to play in the Seniors...I will not play in the Open Divisions, I think I'm somewhere between Open I and Masters...that would be Seniors. I do agree with your assessment of the Elites too. I have always said there are only so many Masters and so Many Elites in Iowa, but the voting members want to get as many players in the Master Division as possible...for the money. I wish we could play for a trophy and forget the money, then you'd see who really want to be the State Champion instead of who want to see the money. (end of my rant)

I heard an idea the other day on here...Richardson or Deadstroke7 made it I believe. The idea was an OPEN DIVISION where anyone could play. I am mulling this idea over in my mind. If we eliminated the Elites (those 5-6 players that are Elites) form our Masters Division, had a true Masters Division (no Elites/no handicaps) and allowed for an Open Division for the Elites to play in as well as some of the Masters (or anyone else from Iowa for that matter) that want the challenge. The unfortunate part would be participation. I'd be surprised if 16 players would show up. This is basically what we tried with the Elite Tournament...allowing outsiders to play. That sure didn't work. All we did there was throw some money to the big fish and shorted the guppies.

I like to think of the Division that we have created in a similar light as school...Level II Open is the bigginers, the entry level of play...like grade school. Open Level I is High School, Master College and Elites are the Professionals in the field...they can make a living doing that job. But, some don't see it that way and some need to down play thier skill level just so they can win...like having a 200 pound high school aged kid playing football on a grade school team. (OK, end of that rant too).

Thanks for all of the comments and opinions. I am getting ideas from all...some good, some not so good. Keep them coming. I really wish this type of info could be expressed or conveyed on the ISPA web site. I really think that is where it belongs but since only a couple of you guys ever visit that site, it probably wouldn't be as interesting.

Sorry for 'stealing' you post Mikey. Maybe it should say "Update on the Iowa Pool Scene". But that's OK, we all appreciate the post and this talk don't hurt nothin'.

L8R...Ken
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I think this is all good stuff. I'm new here, figuring out how these tournaments work. I never liked team tournaments, now I love them. I hated 8-Ball, after Valley I see why it is a good game when played state wide.

It's also good to be able to interact with you Ken in an open fashion without calling a number and getting a private answer. The whole world can see what you are saying and what is being said to you. This is good dialogue for everyone. It let's us know our voice and concerns are heard.

Here's another little baby issue I heard about. Is it true that an Open player can sign up for the Masters division and be spotted a game from regular Masters players? I believe I heard talk Open players will go to 4 in the masters division. If this is true I predict an Open player to win the Masters division, especially the 9-Ball!
 
SKUNKBOY said:
Pretty busy lunch hour...



I like to think of the Division that we have created in a similar light as school...Level II Open is the bigginers, the entry level of play...like grade school. Open Level I is High School, Master College and Elites are the Professionals in the field...they can make a living doing that job. But, some don't see it that way and some need to down play thier skill level just so they can win...like having a 200 pound high school aged kid playing football on a grade school team. (OK, end of that rant too).


L8R...Ken
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Here's the list of Elites:
Adam Behnke, Ryan Behnke, Dwaine Bowman, Jamey Bowman, Jesse Bowman, Jason Chance, Chad Duster, Jack Craft, Dennis Favaro, Jamie Fenton, Dustin Gunia, Scott Hargens, Rory Hendrickson, Tom Hernandez, Josh Johnson, Scott Kitto, Don McCaughey, Kevin McCombs, Jody McLaughlin, Wes Nemmers, Marv Rapp, John Rozmus, Rich Sager, Nate Schoepske, Chad Vilmont, and Whitey Walker....

If all these guys can make a living at pool....I hope they don't quit there day jobs....my Taxes are high enough!!!!
 
Well that's a good 'rumor' to quell right here and now. NO...an Open player in the Master Division will be treated like any new Master player...he'll go to 5.

I would agree with you prediction. There are too many Master players in the open right now...flying below the radar so to speak. Any one of those unscrupulous players could pull off that win. Glad you mentioned that...thanks.

Rumors will kill an event!!! Ask the right person and get the real answer...thanks again.

L8R...Ken
 
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