How Do You Aim By Feel

Disclaimer: I spent lots of time playing pool in my HS (2-3 hours per day)and college days (2-4 hours a day) and was tollerably good (57 ball run in 14.1 (once)), Then did not play for 35 years.

When I got back to playing pool, I found my aiming system had degenerated to Ghost Ball, and that all kicks and banks had become geometry and trigonometry problems. These systems worked to "not miss so badly" that I "felt like giving up".

However, after 3 years of 1-3 hours a day practice, you get to the point that you have seen that angle enough times, and used that spin so many times; that the big CPU in your head simply says--"roll the ball like this there". This is what many refer to as feel. No math was performed, no geomtery measured, not much analysis of the table position either, just the brain leaping to the conclusion that this is the way to go forward. That is what I consider feel. You still have all the math, geometry, trig in the back of you head when the big CPU says (in a sgt Sholtz maner) "I know nothing, nothinig, nothing."

The way to "get" feel is to shoot a minimum of 100,000 shots and it will simply start to showing up; by 300,000 shots it is well developed, by 1,000,000 shots it is about as well developed as it ever will be. I'm guessing as to the 1M number, since I'm not there yet (after restarting).
 
Koop,
I think "aiming by feel" just means that the techniques for aiming become sub-conscious. Some people learn a method, CTE, ghostball, whatever, but after they've really got to know it they don't think about it and it just done "by feel". Others never learned a "system", they just shot and missed until they stopped missing because they could "feel" it when they were aligned right.
Either way, it is just operant conditioning, that is, an organism repeats behaviors that are reinforcing whether it is a rat pushing a lever for a food pellet or a pool player finding success shooting balls in a pocket.
Steve.<== Thinks B.F. Skinner was a much overlooked and maligned genius.
 
excellent thread here koop! mostly i would just echo what most others have said. as i have said before i believe most "aiming systems" are just devices to force a player to focus on the shot at hand. feel players do this without needing the device of "the system". assuming good repeatable mechanics (you have put the cue ball where you need it to go) the you need to accomplish 3 things: focus, visualization and belief. Laser like focus on the shot before you. visualize the path of the cb striking the ob, the path of the ob falling into the pocket, the path the cb takes after contact and also visualize the feel of the cue hitting the cb, the sound of the cb contacting the ob etc (full sensory visualization). finally believe that you can make the shot just the way you see it in your mind. aiming systems are devices to help players to this. feel players dont need the device of a system.

also whether feel play can be shown on a wei table or proven by math is irrelevant in the overwhelming proof of making balls.

brian
 
Here are my opinions. They are worth what you paid for them

I agree with Joe W. After muddling through the recent aiming threads I played around with what I thought were the systems shown on the diagrams. No way! Couldn't even miss close. So I tried some variations that felt right, but were not what I'd been shown.

Well I started to pocket balls and found out I was using the 90/90 system. But some of the shots didn't feel right. I got down on the shots and pivoted into line and then got back up and put a ghost ball next to the OB. I got down again to compare my sense of feel with the pivot. Half the time (on the tough shots) I guessed wrong and the pivot was right and half the time the pivot was wrong and my feel for the shot was right.

I figured that my sense of feel was going to have to make friends with this pivoting if it was going to work. I kept trying to steer away from the target when I used the pivot even though it was right. It was a comical battle, lol:D. There were two people in my head fighting for my attention. I literally was chuckling.

These systems were introduced to me about 30 years ago when I hung around with some very intuitive people like Don "The Preacher" Feeney, Gerry Kanov, Shari Stauch, Harold Simonsen, among others. I couldn't get them to work, but I wasn't using feel then. Just mechanics. Feel smoothes out the wrinkles and gets you there. It is the major component in any aiming system, swing, throw, kick, etc. With feel I've started to get the pivot to make more balls. I don't just fire until my feel agrees with the pivot. Neurological experience!

Mike
 
I have done very well aiming by feel. The issue with that is that it takes constant practice to keep your instincts fresh, or at least that's how it is with me.

Right now I am only able to play 1 to 2 days a week so my aim is not nearly as good as it was before I quit playing 12 years ago since I played 3-7 days a week then. Because of this aiming systems pick up where feel has left me due to lack of time.
 
experience

Others have already written much the same but we aim by experience. We are also aiming by things we aren't even conscious of. I rarely think about playing with clean balls or dirty balls or worst of all dirty balls in high humidity. I make adjustments that would make me crazy if I had to quantify them step by step. The Cray supercomputer or it's latest great great grandson would melt down into a puddle trying to do all that my mind does without conscious effort. Not considering the robotics, think what kind of computing power would be needed to play tennis with a human being. We use this same computing power when playing by "feel".

I didn't have a clue concerning the names of all of the things I was adjusting for before I came to AZB but in truth I might have been better off. Obviously some things of great benefit here but also a tremendous amount of "clutter" that doesn't directly impact play. I can know that the table is banking a little funny and that I need to adjust a little or I can know that it is hot and humid making the cloth slow and the cushions fast. The balls are dirty, and the old cue ball is a little light. I already "knew" these things when I adjusted for the table playing a little funny. Now all these things running through my mind in words are actually clutter that doesn't improve my play and distracts me from drinking in all of the inputs from my senses and playing the table and balls.

There is a lot more value to be found in hitting balls and thinking about hitting balls than in trying to cut the ball into 43 fractions or trying to figure out shortcuts that work perfectly on some shots and approximately on other shots. I use thought in words and do a fair amount of thinking on a nine foot table. On a bar box I just free wheel and let things happen. I play amazingly better on a bar box. I play better on the big box too when I just try to pocket balls ignoring how I am pocketing them.

To wind up this long winded answer, for me playing by feel is playing without trying to consciously quantify anything on the table. For practical purposes it can't be taught, it has to be earned by putting in the hours. There are faster and slower ways to get to the end of the rainbow but there isn't any easy way.

Hu



With all of the threads and posts about CTE and the way "Feel" comes into play
(subconscious adjustments) nobody has ever described how to aim by feel and why it's the best way to aim. Obviously many think it is the best way to aim because it eventually takes over at some point on ALL aiming systems including ghost ball. Here are some questions regarding it:

1. Is feel the same for all players in determining what to do and how to use it?
2. Is feel transferrable from one player to the next and can it be taught?
3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods?
4. Can feel be illustrated on a Wie table?
5. Can the exactness of feel be shown in an algebraic or mathmatical formula which seems to be the final word to validate a system?
6. Is feel the same for an APA3 or anything in between compared to a short stop or pro?
7. Is feel consistent and exact from one shot to the next or from one day to the next?
8. How do you know if your feel manipulation is correct or incorrect before taking the shot?
 
Can not expain how it works when I make the shot, maybe is like the force of a JEDI KNIGHT, a magic power.
 
With all of the threads and posts about CTE and the way "Feel" comes into play
(subconscious adjustments) nobody has ever described how to aim by feel and why it's the best way to aim. Obviously many think it is the best way to aim because it eventually takes over at some point on ALL aiming systems including ghost ball. Here are some questions regarding it:

1. Is feel the same for all players in determining what to do and how to use it?

No. One guy is a pure natural and would play worse if you tried to make him use any sort of system. Another person needs to develop their feel through incremental steps.

2. Is feel transferable from one player to the next and can it be taught?

No and yes. You can't transfer your feeling to another person. You can describe what the successful outcome feels like so that they can recognize it. This is something that I had to when teaching people how to jump.

3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods?

It's not. Feel is by definition not a method. For example I can look down the hall in my warehouse and ask someone to tell me how long it is. Without referencing any thing and using no tool they may tell me within a few inches how long it is or they might be off by three feet - that's feel. I, on the other hand can look at the floor and know that each of my concrete slabs is ten feet long and that the hallway looks to be about one and half slabs. So I might say 15 feet based on using some sort of a reference system. I might be plus minus a foot - but every time plus minus a foot using my reference system.
4. Can feel be illustrated on a Wei table?

No. Diagrams can only show you the path not how it feels to be there.

5. Can the exactness of feel be shown in an algebraic or mathematical formula which seems to be the final word to validate a system?

No. Feel is not exact. You may "feel" that you are perfect on the same shot twice in a row and make one and miss one. However in the context of a system if the final outcome is repeatable success then one can say that the system works to get you to the right path and then feel takes over to allow you to pull the trigger.

Actually let me quantify my no. I do think that "feel" can be show in an equation. I am not a mathematician but if we accept that their is a corridor which allows the object ball to be pocketed and we accept that it's possible to propel a cueball along a vector that intersects this corridor - i.e. the cueball does not need to hit an EXACT point in order for the object ball to go in the pocket but instead the cueball can hit a range of points and still propel the object ball into the pocket then it's clear that the actual collison does not have to happen in exactly the same finite place every time but it MUST happen within a certain space.

So if the person is reasonably certain that they are on the right corridor then they can be off to the left or right of dead perfect and still pocket the ball. This variance should able to be expressed mathematically.

Thus if a system can be shown to force people to adopt the correct corridor where feel can take over then it should be able to be modeled through math.

6. Is feel the same for an APA3 or anything in between compared to a short stop or pro?

No.

7. Is feel consistent and exact from one shot to the next or from one day to the next?

Yes and no. In general yes. In practice no. The higher level player that you are will mean that your "feel" will be more consistent than a lower level player simply because you have honed it.

In another thread I used the example of skiving leather. Skiving leather is when you are thinning out the edges to be able to fold or sew it. A beginner has very little feeling for this task and the results are often inconsistent. A pro has developed the feeling for knowing just how much pressure to apply to the knife for each type of leather - this takes time. However there are techniques which make the task much easier and a beginner who learns these techniques has an advantage over one who does not.

8. How do you know if your feel manipulation is correct or incorrect before taking the shot?

You don't. When you pull the trigger you have to be confident that you are lined up as best you can be, assuming you are just using the "feel" point and shoot method with no other references such as Ghost Ball, aiming systems, lines to the pocket, etc.... even with such methods you still have to just trust that you have gotten down on the right line and trial and error gives you that trust.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will describe how to aim by feel.

Look at the object ball and see where it should go - look at the cue ball and see where it should go to hit the object ball to make the object go where it should - lay your cue down and make the tip hit the cue ball in the direction of the object ball. The beginners in my shop miss a lot of balls aiming by feel.

Forget about playing position that comes later.
 
3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods?

feel geometrical? i'm not sure this happens. even physics has little to do with good pool.

its like fixing a chicken sandwich......hmmmmm....brb.
 
Last edited:
This thread has more potential than any of the threads on aiming techniques. Pool is a game of TOUCH and FEEL, not geometry or mechanics! The best players rarely have to line up anything, they know how to hit the shot immediately. It is our subconscious mind at work, making all the calculations for us.

Have you ever kicked a stone down the street? As you are walking toward the stone, your subconscious mind calculates if you must alter your footsteps to line up properly for the next kick. Try it some time if you don't believe me.

What a great analogy.

Thanks everyone. Keep it going.
 
Hey Koopster!

Hope things are well! To answer your question(s), I'll preface what I'm about to say by letting you know I'm a "feel" player that sees the ghostball clear as day -- have done so ever since I picked up a cue, and I later learned it was because I was "diagnosed" with great 3D perceptive visualization. (While still early in my U.S. Navy military stint, I took [and passed] all kinds of perceptive visualization tests as part of my application endeavors for officer candidate school, and then later to apply for Seal training. These perceptive visualization tests were some of the most difficult tests I'd ever taken.)

Hope that is helpful,
-Sean

Thank you Sean, and thank you for your service.

Koop - USAF 89-95 :smile:
 
Koop try this. Hit some random balls one stroking the shots. Bend down and shoot. No practice strokes no aiming just bend down and shoot. You will surprise yourself that your body could actually make balls without the mind getting too involved. Not only that but it's a good drill to get your alignment right as soon as your down. Quite the opposite of the pivot techniques.
 
Btw, i meant this just as a drill and I'm not suggesting anybody actually play one stroking shots.
 

  1. 3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods?
  2. Mental visualization includes depth, speed, spin and other forces that affect the aim - even humidity. It is three dimensional taking into account the position of the rails and the other pockets. Since the OB is always locked onto the destination pocket, there are fewer choices. Other techniques are 2 dimensional so inherently would be limited.

    [
    6. Is feel the same for an APA3 or anything in between compared to a short stop or pro?


    No. The better player will have much higher levels of precision. I saw Johnny Archer shoot between two balls that could have had as little as 1/8th inch of clearance - I couldn't believe he could do it. Now, that's visualization.

    [
    Chris


  1. The game is three dimensional because the balls are round.The surface is flat , the pockets are fixed, angles off of rails are mathematically predictable. All are linear. A ball is made up of an infinite number of
    planes. Only when the two balls meet can an exact plane be apparent. The directions of the two balls are dependent upon where they strike, or, where they discover a shared plane. Because of minute differences at the starting point that shared plane cannot be predicted. Thus the outcome cannot be predicted. This is non-linear chaos.
    Only experience developed expertise as the top pros have developed,
    such as described above by Johny Archer, can control the starting point
    adjustments necessary for a confident outcome. This is playing by feel.
    So there. MNSHO
 
With all of the threads and posts about CTE and the way "Feel" comes into play
(subconscious adjustments) nobody has ever described how to aim by feel and why it's the best way to aim. Obviously many think it is the best way to aim because it eventually takes over at some point on ALL aiming systems including ghost ball. Here are some questions regarding it:

1. Is feel the same for all players in determining what to do and how to use it? No

2. Is feel transferrable from one player to the next and can it be taught? No, feel is individual. but feel theory can be discussed.

3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods? It's not, but who cares about geometry when you are spinning, bending, curving and pinching balls anyway. In the same way that some people are keenly adept at making semi masses around slight hooks to pocket balls, while others just flat out suck at those shots, i am sure that you could break down the whole shot process to physics, geometry and math, but that is going to do NOTHING to teach someone how to hit it, how hard, how much spin to use, etc etc, and even if you did explain it, if the person is using a different cue with a different weight, weight distribution, and tip hardness, what difference does it make? It's all variable to that particular instant anyway.

4. Can feel be illustrated on a Wie table? No

5. Can the exactness of feel be shown in an algebraic or mathmatical formula which seems to be the final word to validate a system? No, because every brain is different and what feel is to one person might be different from another person.

6. Is feel the same for an APA3 or anything in between compared to a short stop or pro? We have no way of measuring this, so the default answer would be no.

7. Is feel consistent and exact from one shot to the next or from one day to the next? No. If you feel good physically and mentally, "feel" is much easier, but if you don't, your "feel" will feel like crap. Same way you can play phenomenal, and then get tired and suck. It's all relative to that individual at that particular time.

8. How do you know if your feel manipulation is correct or incorrect before taking the shot? You don't. People do miss, and there is no system in the world that guarantees perfection. But simply put, If your instincts are aware of what you are visualizing, you will sense when something is off, but that is provided that your feel is in tune that day to begin with.


To me, feel for aiming is trusting my instincts as to where to look at the object ball. Nothing more.

If i wanted, and as is usually the case on high pressure situations or tough shots, i will walk over and look at the exact spot i have to hit on the object ball to make it go where i want, and then i will go back and just bear down on that spot when walking into the shot.
Some people insist on calling that the Ghost Ball system, but i tell them that they are a bunch of idiots who have no idea what they are talking about, simply because i never EVER imagined a ghost cue ball and where that ball would end up as it hit the object ball.
I just spent ten, twelve, sixteen hours a day in the pool hall EVERY DAY, hitting balls and rifling them into the rail, till my stroke got straight, and i could just look at the spot and shoot to make the ball.

Feel for me is trusting my brain and it's visual-spacial and body-kinesthetic intelligences.
I don't think about any ghost ball or any edge vs center stuff.
I am simply looking at the spot i have to hit, to make the ball in the hole when i walk into the shot, and while stroking, and making sure my stroke is straight.
That is it.

It's actually a very uncomplicated process.

A process is made easier, because i have absolute faith in my stroke and my set up of walking into a shot, and the fact that i have hit 20 years worth of balls to know what i need to do.
AND...

JohnPT brings up a very valid point that a lot of people don't practice, which is the one stroke practice routine.
A long ago, i watched a video by Jimmy Reid called "No time for negative."

In it, he talked about one stroking balls to test your mechanics as well as your aiming technique, where the aiming is not done while down on the shot, but instead, it's done while assessing the shot while standing and looking at it.
If you can look at a shot, and aim while standing, and then walk into the proper line for the shot, if your stroke is true, you can basically shut your eyes and the shot will still rifle into the hole.

That is what i have always maintained. That my aiming of the shot is done while standing, and that the execution of the shot, begins with walking into it on the right line, and stroking the ball, but never do i aim at a shot while i am down on the ball. I happen to think that this is KEY to my particular feel for aiming.

If you are able to one stroke shots into the hole, that means that everything you are doing is right, so why waste brain power thinking more then you have to?
Just look at Keith McCready for instance.
Now there is a guy whos mechanics are all over the place, yet despite that, he is arguably THE BEST at one stroking balls into the hole.
If all the tournaments back in the day were one stroke tournaments, he would have won them ALL.
Why is that?
Because his mechanics worked for him, and he had absolute faith in them to just look at the shot quickly, shoot, and make the ball.
He didn't over think stuff, he just said to himself, "come on lets GO!" and shot the ball.
To me, THAT is what feel is all about.
Where you are in tune with your body and your visualization capabilities and know what you can do, and you just do it.
 
searcy: The 30 degree rule just says that for a lot of cut shots, you can predict where the cue ball will go when it's rolling with natural topspin.

Usually it goes about 30 degrees off the line it was travelling before.

You can make a peace sign to sort of predict this path... line up one finger along the line that the cue ball starts out on... and your other finger will point along the line that the cue ball should take after hitting the object ball.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/30_degree_rule_summary.pdf
 
Last edited:
QUOTE Superstar9]To me, feel for aiming is trusting my instincts as to where to look at the object ball. Nothing more.

If i wanted, and as is usually the case on high pressure situations or tough shots, i will walk over and look at the exact spot i have to hit on the object ball to make it go where i want, and then i will go back and just bear down on that spot when walking into the shot.
Some people insist on calling that the Ghost Ball system, but i tell them that they are a bunch of idiots who have no idea what they are talking about, simply because i never EVER imagined a ghost cue ball and where that ball would end up as it hit the object ball.
I just spent ten, twelve, sixteen hours a day in the pool hall EVERY DAY, hitting balls and rifling them into the rail, till my stroke got straight, and i could just look at the spot and shoot to make the ball.


'sIt actually a very uncomplicated process.

A process is made easier, because i have absolute faith in my stroke and my set up of walking into a shot, and the fact that i have hit 20 years worth of balls to know what i need to do.
QUOTE
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Superstar ,I don't give a flying phuk who you are , how
good you are, how many hours you spent on the table,
where you live . how much money you've won, how many
posts you have made, etc., etc. Your screen name should
be changed to Super Shit.

It is only a simple process to you because you are too much
of a moron to understand the processes you profess to be an expert on.

I do agree that through thousands of hours of practice and
experience that you can become adept at the game. If you are,
and I suspect that you are adept, it goes to prove that, although
high intelligence is a plus, it takes only a minimum of brainpower
to become quite good at the game. :kma:
 
Last edited:
searcy: The 30 degree rule just says that for a lot of cut shots, you can predict where the cue ball will go when it's rolling with natural topspin.

Usually it goes about 30 degrees off the line it was travelling before.

You can make a peace sign to sort of predict this path... line up one finger along the line that the cue ball starts out on... and your other finger will point along the line that the cue ball should take after hitting the object ball.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/30_degree_rule_summary.pdf

hmmmm....so what you're saying is that if you're shooting from the right longrail into the left corner pocket, if the rebound angle is 30 degrees....you'll prolly scratch in the right corner, unless you spin the crap out of it right?
 
Back
Top