New to the forums as well as rules question

dedstroke38

dedstroke38

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi everyone, I'm pretty new to the forums and would like to say a big hello. I consider myself a somewhat knowledgable player (well I hope I am somewhat considering I instruct classes at my University) and a player looking to continually improve. I feel fortunate to have the chance to gain information from people with so much wisdom and experience on here.

Anyway, a couple weeks ago I was playing 9 ball with one of the better players in my area. We match up pretty even and we get in to some pretty serious sets, and something happened which I had never come across before. The 9 was hanging in the pocket and I just played a jam up safe on the 1. He was nearly frozen to two balls. All the balls cut off all the paths for a kick and because of the the cue ball being frozen he didn't have the ability to just knock in the 9. So he went up and knocked in the 9 directly with his cue and spotted it. This seemed odd to me.. is it that simple? I don't have the option to replace the 9 or anything? :confused: Seemed like too easy of an out to me when I jammed him up good.
 
Alrighty thanks. Yeah I'm sure we've all pocket the 9 out of order many times but usually with the cue ball. Just seems strange to me that you can directly hit an object ball with the cue and it not be anything but BIH.
 
I'd call it unsportsmanlike, but I don't think there is much you can do about it. IMO it should be a loss.
 
dedstroke38 said:
Hi everyone, I'm pretty new to the forums and would like to say a big hello. I consider myself a somewhat knowledgable player (well I hope I am somewhat considering I instruct classes at my University) and a player looking to continually improve. I feel fortunate to have the chance to gain information from people with so much wisdom and experience on here.

Anyway, a couple weeks ago I was playing 9 ball with one of the better players in my area. We match up pretty even and we get in to some pretty serious sets, and something happened which I had never come across before. The 9 was hanging in the pocket and I just played a jam up safe on the 1. He was nearly frozen to two balls. All the balls cut off all the paths for a kick and because of the the cue ball being frozen he didn't have the ability to just knock in the 9. So he went up and knocked in the 9 directly with his cue and spotted it. This seemed odd to me.. is it that simple? I don't have the option to replace the 9 or anything? :confused: Seemed like too easy of an out to me when I jammed him up good.
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I assume you meant that using his cue stick, he cued on the nine ball rather than the cue ball and knocked it into the pocket.

It's not ball in hand. It's loss of match. You play the game by hitting the cue ball with the tip of your cue. To set the balls in motion any other way is outside the game. It's not pool.
 
I don't believe that would be allowed in a professional tournament. I think it would fall under the category of "unsportsmanlike conduct" and your opponent would either forfeit the game or match or the 9-ball would be replaced.
 
Thanks for correcting me Mr Jewett, my goal for today has been met, I have learned something today. :)
 
Bob Jewett said:
I assume you meant that using his cue stick, he cued on the nine ball rather than the cue ball and knocked it into the pocket.

It's not ball in hand. It's loss of match. You play the game by hitting the cue ball with the tip of your cue. To set the balls in motion any other way is outside the game. It's not pool.
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Match or game? Or does that depend on the ref, if there is one?
 
I would put this in the same category as raking the balls from the table. This would be loss of game.
It would be different if the player does a legal hit on the cue ball and pockets the 9, then it would spot up and be ball in hand. An intentional foul like this should be loss of game.
Not sure how it's spelled out in the rule book, maybe Jay H. or Jerry could chime in here?
 
Bob Jewett said:
I assume you meant that using his cue stick, he cued on the nine ball rather than the cue ball and knocked it into the pocket.

It's not ball in hand. It's loss of match. You play the game by hitting the cue ball with the tip of your cue. To set the balls in motion any other way is outside the game. It's not pool.
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Thanks Bob, thats what I figured. Right when it happened I swear I knew it was wrong but because of him being one of the better players and the fact that he acted so sure of it I seemed to give in and not question it. Thank you, and lesson learned.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I assume you meant that using his cue stick, he cued on the nine ball rather than the cue ball and knocked it into the pocket.

It's not ball in hand. It's loss of match. You play the game by hitting the cue ball with the tip of your cue. To set the balls in motion any other way is outside the game. It's not pool.
Click to expand...

Darn, you beat me to it. Thanks.:thumbup:
 
tucson9ball said:
...
Not sure how it's spelled out in the rule book, maybe Jay H. or Jerry could chime in here?
Click to expand...
The rules are here.
The particular text that applies is:

The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
​
 
Bob Jewett said:
The rules are here.
The particular text that applies is:

The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
​
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. I was almost positive it was loss of game, but didn't have rules at my work computer.:smile:
 
dedstroke38 said:
Hi everyone, I'm pretty new to the forums and would like to say a big hello. I consider myself a somewhat knowledgable player (well I hope I am somewhat considering I instruct classes at my University) and a player looking to continually improve. I feel fortunate to have the chance to gain information from people with so much wisdom and experience on here.

Anyway, a couple weeks ago I was playing 9 ball with one of the better players in my area. We match up pretty even and we get in to some pretty serious sets, and something happened which I had never come across before. The 9 was hanging in the pocket and I just played a jam up safe on the 1. He was nearly frozen to two balls. All the balls cut off all the paths for a kick and because of the the cue ball being frozen he didn't have the ability to just knock in the 9. So he went up and knocked in the 9 directly with his cue and spotted it. This seemed odd to me.. is it that simple? I don't have the option to replace the 9 or anything? :confused: Seemed like too easy of an out to me when I jammed him up good.
Click to expand...



Welcome to the AZ Forum. Stick around Bob Jewett and you will have lots of knowledge.....SPF=randyg
 
I would have thought when an ob is moved illegally by someones hand or in this case cue that the opponent usually has the right to leave it or put it back where it was but I am not arguing Bob Jewett
 
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peteypooldude said:
I would have thought when an ob is moved illegally by someones hand or in this case cue that the opponent usually has the right to leave it or put it back where it was ...
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If the movement is out of clumsiness or inattention, a different rule applies. If the player intentionally goes outside the rules of the game, such as pushing a ball into a pocket with his hand, it's unsportsmanlike conduct, and the player is at the mercy of the ref.

As for whether accidentally touching a ball is a foul, that depends on whether you are playing by the full rules or by the reduced rules that include something called "cue ball fouls only" and exactly what else happens on the shot. The "cue ball fouls only" concept is not actually part of the rules, but is in a separate section of "Regulations." I think it's better for the game and for the players not to use "cue ball fouls only" and instead learn to play "all fouls."
 
Bob Jewett said:
If the movement is out of clumsiness or inattention, a different rule applies. If the player intentionally goes outside the rules of the game, such as pushing a ball into a pocket with his hand, it's unsportsmanlike conduct, and the player is at the mercy of the ref.

As for whether accidentally touching a ball is a foul, that depends on whether you are playing by the full rules or by the reduced rules that include something called "cue ball fouls only" and exactly what else happens on the shot. The "cue ball fouls only" concept is not actually part of the rules, but is in a separate section of "Regulations." I think it's better for the game and for the players not to use "cue ball fouls only" and instead learn to play "all fouls."
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Bob: "All fouls" require a referee at every table. Where would the 300+ refs come from for the BCA Nationals?....SPF=randyg
 
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