Why CTE is silly

Status
Not open for further replies.
Empty assurances. Why don't YOU convince us that CTE "works?"

Since you're making the statement, we can only assume that YOU know what CTE is, AND that it works. So why do we need to "Talk with an instructor that teaches it" when we have you here already who can tell us?

You clearly don't care enough to learn, would rather ASSume it doesn't because it seems too easy. I went out of my way to learn that IT WORKS. Not my job to teach someone who doesn't want to learn it.

I'm not gonna get into a debate cause it doesn't make sense. If someone wants to debate with me about why gravity is "bullsh!t", I would rather just slam my head into a wall for an hour. Both would just make me dumber but slamming my head would be a little less painful.
 
Miscommunication is the biggest problem in these CTE threads, and you're miscommunicating here by overstating your case. It's obvious to you and me that CTE describes no precisely programmed steps to an accurate aiming solution, but it's also obvious to CTE's users that it provides something objectively positive and useful for them - objective because it produces concrete results (they shoot better). If you want to communicate you have to be careful not to conflate or confuse the two concepts.

I agree that miscommunication is an enormous problem in such debates (I've engaged in them before, on other issues!). In this case, the definition of "aiming" can mean slightly different things to different people.

But I'm not sure what the cause of your apparent "fear" is for calling BS for what it is.

In looking through ancient threads that are spread all over the internet--many of which feature YOU, saying EXACTLY the things I'm saying now--I've learned that the main publicized version of Houle's work is a flurry of INSANE SOUNDING numerology, into which the approximately CORRECT cut angles for 15, 30, and 45 degree shots are inserted. AND that hitting the object ball at the appropriate one of those 3 places will make ANY SHOT!

But of course, THEN, there are those here who say things like "You have to be shown to really get it," and "The actual system is NOT public knowledge."

So no, it's not exactly obvious to me what CTE does and doesn't do--even if it is obvious that Houle was apparently some kind of lunatic.

Nevertheless, I CAN with complete confidence tell you what I DO know: I know the contents of my PM inbox. I know there are people who have taken paid instruction on the variants of CTE that are now for sale, who feel what they learned is total crap: that there are only 3 (or 6) numbered shots, that you learn the angles for those, and you're good to go.

Again you're conflating/confusing terms. A system can be geometrically undefinable and yet be a rational choice for a player because it produces objective results.

Now here I have to accuse you of being a bit confused--about the definition of the term "rational." It's not rational to believe it's only necessary to hit the object ball in 3 different places to make all pool shots--when that is WRONG information.

I know you've "convinced yourself" that some people are "helped" by believing something that is false. But I wonder what EVIDENCE you have about the helping part. It's a known fact of psychology that people will say things have helped them when in fact they didn't--especially if they've already paid for them.

I think the "objective results" you must be referring to are that, as people continue to play more pool they begin to make more shots. Who's the one being irrational if you're trying to draw a connection between a lesson to aim in one of three places vs people simply and naturally improving their motor skills and coordination by playing their sport over time? I question the objectivity of that--your information and your conclusions. Have you heard from all the people who say they WEREN'T helped by the Houle system? Or did those people just wander away, their pockets less full--perhaps thinking that they lack some capacity to learn?

I have seen or heard NO objective evidence that learning CTE helps people. I question your understanding of the phrase "objective results."

I don't think it's valid to assume that a system can't be objectively useful (or even "a system") because it isn't useful in ways we prefer.

I wonder: Do you think it's valid if I say that there are many ACCURATE systems of aiming available for free (Dr. Dave's website and elsewhere), or at minimal cost (the MANY pool books written over the years by the best to ever play), while very EXPENSIVE lessons in an INACCURATE system are touted as "special, secret information?"

Would it be valid if I said it's a travesty that the implication is being floated by some who wish to profit, that the famous pool players for generations who have written books have actually LIED about how they aim, but that for a large fee, you can be taught how they REALLY aimed?

I'm not arguing against you; just trying to draw you closer to a middleground that's more productive for discussion. My motives are selfish: we've been all over this ground many times already over several years and several versions of this system, and I'm tired of talking past each other.

If you're tired of the discussion it would be best if you didn't take part, no?

I know the feeling. My main intention in starting this thread was actually to pass along the Excel data (with formulas) that I originally posted. I had always intended to sit down and generate that data for myself, and this CTE business prompted me to get off (or onto) my ass and do it. Not only are 3 or 6 different shots not enough to make all shots--neither are 64! It's good, solid information that objectively shows exactly the hurdles that need to be cleared in making different shots at different angles and distances. It can help people to work harder on shots they SHOULD make, and worry less about missing those that require accuracy to a hair's breadth. It can give people the fodder to make objective choices in safety strategy, based on their level of play.

As to the "middle ground," I must have missed that being an important part of internet forums. I had the idea that forums were meant to collect the many DIFFERENT ideas from different minds--to compare and contrast, without trying to turn them into a single muddle in the "middleground."

What's the "middleground" between those who wish to sell to others the notion that only 3 shots are needed vs those who know differently, anyhow?
 
With these 2 quotes I think Hal is much more believable than Johnny, But you go ahead and hero worship anyway.

Please. Be sure to EMPTY YOUR POCKETS before entering pool rooms :D

The writer is obviously not Hal Houle, but some jokester being cute. Archer's reply alone makes that obvious. Both, it's clear, see Houle and his methods as something to laugh about.
 
You clearly don't care enough to learn, would rather ASSume it doesn't because it seems too easy. I went out of my way to learn that IT WORKS. Not my job to teach someone who doesn't want to learn it.

I'm not gonna get into a debate cause it doesn't make sense. If someone wants to debate with me about why gravity is "bullsh!t", I would rather just slam my head into a wall for an hour. Both would just make me dumber but slamming my head would be a little less painful.

I really do just love this :D Is any more proof needed that CTE is a religion (and therefore something that is explicitly NOT evidenced or rational)?

I congratulate you for your faith.

Mark Twain said "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
 
Funny, many people here know that it works. You can't disprove something that works for so many people. Your math doesn't mean anything to me when I can use it and know that it works. AND I DON'T GIVE A DAMN HOW IT WORKS! Try this out on Hal Houle. All, and I mean ALL the detractors have an axe to grind. You're no different.
 
Please. Be sure to EMPTY YOUR POCKETS before entering pool rooms :D

The writer is obviously not Hal Houle, but some jokester being cute. Archer's reply alone makes that obvious. Both, it's clear, see Houle and his methods as something to laugh about.

You really are a piece of work.
 
This is all you need to know. Everything else is bullshit. Make the training aid and have at it.

http://books.google.com/books?id=dK...v=onepage&q=the arrow babe cranfield&f=false

You all look silly still discussing this stupid way to aim.

Why do you need a training aid? You have the stick, balls and pocket right there. Everything you need to aim is provided for already.

Just learn to use what's there all the time and you don't need templates to help you find ghosts.

John <------------------rather be silly than close-minded :-)
 
Believe what you want. I hope you do think it is BS.
By the way, Are you a world beater? I don't play paper pool, That is
a different game. Paper does not have physical and visual elements.
 
Nevertheless, I CAN with complete confidence tell you what I DO know: I know the contents of my PM inbox. I know there are people who have taken paid instruction on the variants of CTE that are now for sale, who feel what they learned is total crap: that there are only 3 (or 6) numbered shots, that you learn the angles for those, and you're good to go.

If true then the people saying that are cowards. They should relate their experiences and opinions openly.

The "my pm box is full with people who agree with me" rhetoric is old and tired.

Speaking of being vague. You just want us to take it on faith that you have a meaningful number of negative testimony just because you claim it's so.

And for that matter I find it amusing that you discount the testimony of people who like what they were taught, whom publicly proclaim their satisfaction, call them delusional on top it but yet you use alleged testimony that agrees with your premise as "evidence" to bolster your views.

People really are funny like that aren't they?
 
Last edited:
Funny, many people here know that it works. You can't disprove something that works for so many people. Your math doesn't mean anything to me when I can use it and know that it works. AND I DON'T GIVE A DAMN HOW IT WORKS! Try this out on Hal Houle. All, and I mean ALL the detractors have an axe to grind. You're no different.

You may be confused about the meaning of the idiom "have an ax to grind." You can find out more about that idiom here.

But if you're not confused, and mean to imply that I have an ulterior (selfish) motive in this: I don't. I have nothing to sell, no product to promote. I just love the game.

I don't know what "it works" means in the context you use it. I'm not sure what "it" is, and I don't what "works" means.

If "it" is that only three shots are needed to pocket all balls, then I know that "it" in fact doesn't work--the figures in my first post proof that MATHEMATICALLY.

If "works" means that people can make shots that they didn't used to be able to make, then I wonder if you realize that's also true of people who DON'T use CTE. It's like sugar pills (commonly referred to as placebos): Some people get better after taking them, and some people get better after NOT taking them.

If you know the "system," and you know it "works," then please do tell us HOW it works.
 
Last edited:
...ancient threads that are spread all over the internet--many of which feature YOU, saying EXACTLY the things I'm saying now
All of which has brought us efficiently (over many years that you're probably not even aware of) to our current state of mutual respect, understanding and civilized, unpolarized dialogue on the topic. So your idea is to do it all over yet again?

[snip rest of long-winded diatribe]
I'm not interested in long-winded arguments, especially with somebody I wasn't trying to argue with. Take my advice or not, but you're wasting your voluminous verbiage on me.

pj
chgo
 
Well this thread is a doozy for sure as it has two opponents of CTE arguing semantics about who is more against it.

CTE sure is good for some cheap entertainment on a slow newsday.

The only thing better is if Travis Trotter debuts the 400 page technical doc that reveals the secret to CTE with a chapter on how to play like Allison or Shane with the Cuetec 360 CTE Edition thrown in as a bonus.
 
LOL! He has proved one thing on this thread- just because you have some letters behind your name doesn't mean that you have a lick of common sense!

I've replied to your posts; but you seem unwilling to reply to mine. Why not tell me what "common sense" I lack?

Is it common sense to believe only 3 shots are needed to pocket all balls?
Is it common sense to believe any claim from any person (especially if they have something to sell), who insists their method can't be explained?
 
What an unbelievably pathetic joke CTE is!

Here's more baloney for those interested.

Really, what the hell is the matter with you? Why do you feel it necessary to be so obnoxious? You're the one being pathetic, here. Nothing anyone can say is going to change your mind, is it? Besides here, have you talked face to face with anyone who uses CTE? Math may help you but it certainly doesn't have to help all the rest of us. Try Stan Shuffett or Randyg or Hal Houle. I know, you said that won't make sense, either.
 
You may be confused about the meaning of the idiom "have an ax to grind." You can find out more about that idiom here.

But if you're not confused, and mean to imply that I have an ulterior (selfish) motive in this: I don't. I have nothing to sell, no product to promote. I just love the game.

I don't know what "it works" means in the context you use it. I'm not sure what "it" is, and I don't what "works" means.

If "it" is that only three shots are needed to pocket all balls, then I know that "it" in fact doesn't work--the figures in my first post proof that MATHEMATICALLY.

If "works" means that people can make shots that they didn't used to be able to make, then I wonder if you realize that's also true of people who DON'T use CTE. It's like sugar pills (commonly referred to as placebos): Some people get better after taking them, and some people get better after NOT taking them.

If you know the "system," and you know it "works," then please do tell us HOW it works.

If you truly love the game then you would embrace everything that encourages people to play more. You would encourage people to explore every possible method and technique to aim so that they can improve personally and share what they know with others.

You delight in calling Hal Houle names like "lunatic" but he has traveled the country giving lessons for decades FOR FREE. He has encouraged people to expand their thinking about aiming BEYOND ghost ball.

Let me repeat that since you seem to be hung up on some sort of profit motive.

Hal shared what he discovered/invented FOR FREE.

His only request was that people pass it on from person to person and NOT over the internet.

Whether Hal is right or wrong is of zero consequence. The point is that he has put it out there for other people to absorb and decide for themselves if it helps their game or not.

If you want this FREE information then it's available to you. Then you can take it and dissect it to your heart's content. However you are treading on ground that has already been covered and mapped thoroughly when it comes to criticizing what's found on the net.

You call yourself a scientist and a man or woman of reason? Then go to to the source and don't rely on secondhand accounts and incomplete descriptions. Call the lunatic and have a conversation. I am sure you must have found his phone number by now with your super research abilities.

Love the game? I don't think so.
 
I subscribe to NO aiming systems. This game in all about memory and muscle memory...'feel' as it were.

Listen, when you have played this game long enough, your brain already knows what mechanics are involved in order to execute any given shot. When you start spending too much time thinking about it, you've already missed it before you've stroked.

How many top players do you see that take the time to find the center and then adjust to the edge during a match? Too much thought and time elapses. What you do see is the player taking the time to decide where they need to be in position in order to make the next shot to set up for the one to follow, etc. They already know what they need to do with the CB in order to make that happen.

Relax, stop the chatter in your head, and you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish...makes the game more fun too.

Lisa
 
All of which has brought us efficiently (over many years that you're probably not even aware of) to our current state of mutual respect, understanding and civilized, unpolarized dialogue on the topic. So your idea is to do it all over yet again?

I must have missed all that friendly "dialogue" going on between the CTE advocates and others before I stepped in with my spreasheets.

When I see BS I point it out. It's true, people find the sound of alarms unpleasant--but those who ignore them might someday get burnt.

It goes like this: I say that all I can find about CTE is that 3 shots are all that are needed to pocket all balls. I mathematically show that's wrong. Why can't we have an advocate simply step up and explain how incorrect I am?

What happens instead are great displays of emotion and screaming insistence that "IT WORKS!" Let's always keep in mind that it's the advocates who bring the emotion into the issue, when all that would be necessary from them is to explain how their method works.

Finally, I would NEVER have brought this subject up if it weren't for the current AZ series of articles by Roger Long. The topic is appropriate for this forum, at this time, because it's being written about under the auspices of the owners of this site.
 
[...]

Hal shared what he discovered/invented FOR FREE.

If you want this FREE information then it's available to you.

...Then go to to the source and don't rely on secondhand accounts and incomplete descriptions.

[...]

Available? Links please.
 
Really, what the hell is the matter with you? Why do you feel it necessary to be so obnoxious? You're the one being pathetic, here. Nothing anyone can say is going to change your mind, is it? Besides here, have you talked face to face with anyone who uses CTE? Math may help you but it certainly doesn't have to help all the rest of us. Try Stan Shuffett or Randyg or Hal Houle. I know, you said that won't make sense, either.

Did you read the link I provided? If you don't see it as baloney then....there's no hope for you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top