9-ball rating system....

btoneill

btoneill

Keeper of the Cheese
Silver Member
So, being a computer geek by trade, I decided to start writing an application to track my playing of the 9-ball ghost. Basically do stuff like keep track of games won/lost, balls made per attempt, etc. It also dawned on me that once I have all this info into the computer I can throw some magical calculations at this to come up with a rating for a player that would be based on their performance against the ghost.

So, I'm going ahead with my system. What I want to know is, is there interest in people on AZB who might want to use this as well? If there is, I'll spend a bit more time to make it a "user friendly" web based application as opposed to my normal "if you can figure it out, more power to you" based application. Basically my idea is, that it can be used to show your progress (or lack thereof) over time of your game vs the ghost.

And, if people are interested in it, what is the most amount of information you would want to try to keep on each game to input? My initial thought is of course, the win/loss game count, but I also want to keep score of how many balls you pocketed on the break and in the game. Also a thought of adding in "i lost this game because of missing a shot I should have made vs. not having any damn shot (ie hooked yourself on previous shot/couldn't break up cluster/etc).

For the most part I think this would be purely for the persons own personal use as it is dependent on the person entering their scores honestly. But who knows, maybe it could be used for something else in the future.

Just thoughts on my mind. Please let me know if you'd be interested in using such a product (and yes, it would be free).

Brian
 
I have written the same thing for my own tracking (which I quit using about 2 weeks after I wrote it because I found it too redundant to write down my stats while playing, then come home and enter those same stats online). Although I was trying to track, makes, misses, jumps, banks, combos, masses and kicks (and makes/misses for each); as well as high-run-per-rack. I think I was tracking too much info... but now that I video most of my games, I can simply watch the video and fill out the details as I watch. ;)

As for rating systems, there's a pretty standard one which involves playing 10 sets of 10 racks each and adding up all the points, then given a pre-chosen range, you'll fall into ABCD rating. I'm sure you'll find it if you do a search for rating systems here.
 
stljohnny said:
As for rating systems, there's a pretty standard one which involves playing 10 sets of 10 racks each and adding up all the points, then given a pre-chosen range, you'll fall into ABCD rating. I'm sure you'll find it if you do a search for rating systems here.
Click to expand...

I've seen the one by Dr. Dave at http://billiards.colostate.edu, but I was actually thinking of making the formula a bit more complicated. Have a number of things in mind. And having pretty graphs that show your progress over time, etc. Lot's of fun things I can do with the numbers once I have them.
 
Mr Hoppe said:
iPhone app that can be easily updated after each rack?
Click to expand...

If it's a web page, you can just update using Safari on the iPhone, or any smart phone. Didn't think about making sure the page works well on a phone, but easy enough to have a phone version of the page to insert data. Would probably make it much easier for people to do it that way.
 
I have the solution. Balls with RF chips. each time they hit a rail, the ball says "boing", each time you pot a ball, you hear "yay" and each time you scratch it's the sound the PacMan makes when he gets bit. Beam them to the GPS satellite and you have perfect tracking each time. Add them all up, you have all the counters you need.
 
NewStroke said:
I have the solution. Balls with RF chips. each time they hit a rail, the ball says "boing", each time you pot a ball, you hear "yay" and each time you scratch it's the sound the PacMan makes when he gets bit. Beam them to the GPS satellite and you have perfect tracking each time. Add them all up, you have all the counters you need.
Click to expand...

I'd think Bluetooth in each ball along with gyroscopes, accelerometers, along with an electrical grid beneath to table to track location. :)

And you think the current Valley cueballs are heavy! Wait till you see this sucker! :)

LOL
 
Brian,

I have a 9-ball eval that I wrote up as an app for my iPhone.

Basically, you punch in 5 frames of data; balls on the break, balls ran, whether you make the 9-ball. It returns the equivalent total in 9-Ball (A,B,C,D) scale and APA 9-Ball rating.

Its based on these;

9-ball ghost on Dr. Dave
http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/nine-ball_drill.pdf

APA 9-Ball
http://www.poolplayers.com/equalizer.html

Verbose intepretations of the 9-ball ABCD rating
Jude Rosenstock's

Tom In Cincy paraphrasing Bob Campbell
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/ratings.html
 
Awhile back I proposed a possible app that plays the appropriate cue sound when you hit the ball.

Suppose you're at a bar and you're forced to use a house cue. You left your expensive stick at home. The app will mask the hit sound with your choice of Southwest, Tascarella, Balabushka, or Miscue. The MissCue (tm pending) is for those who want to hustle, and make it sound as if you made the shot by accident.

NewStroke said:
I have the solution. Balls with RF chips. each time they hit a rail, the ball says "boing", each time you pot a ball, you hear "yay" and each time you scratch it's the sound the PacMan makes when he gets bit. Beam them to the GPS satellite and you have perfect tracking each time. Add them all up, you have all the counters you need.
Click to expand...
 
ctyhntr said:
Brian,

I have a 9-ball eval that I wrote up as an app for my iPhone.

Basically, you punch in 5 frames of data; balls on the break, balls ran, whether you make the 9-ball. It returns the equivalent total in 9-Ball (A,B,C,D) scale and APA 9-Ball rating.

Its based on these;

9-ball ghost on Dr. Dave
http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/nine-ball_drill.pdf

APA 9-Ball
http://www.poolplayers.com/equalizer.html

Verbose intepretations of the 9-ball ABCD rating
Jude Rosenstock's

Tom In Cincy paraphrasing Bob Campbell
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/ratings.html
Click to expand...

I've read all of those before. My idea is more of a long term tracking as opposed to just coming up with a rating. The rating portion is more or less just to give you baseline with which to compare your play over a period of time. My thought was to also try to extrapolate other peoples "rating" from the data given as much as possible to easily correlate to known rating systems, but that is more just as a "hey, isn't that cool" feature.

Brian
 
I think you have a very good idea! I'd second the iPhone app request though - I'd like to input data once.

bes
 
As its currently written up, its geared as an instant read of how you're playing today, like a thermometer taking a temperature, than for long term tracking.

How about take the ratings for two players. Compare to known handicap systems, and then select a fair handicap, along with a set of rules (BCA, APA, etc). It could give you an opinion, ranging from 'Its a Lock Up', 'Taking Candy From a Baby', "Fair Match-Up" to "Ask for Weight" and extreme "Even Efren Couldn't Get for Enough Weight". :-)

Henry


btoneill said:
I've read all of those before. My idea is more of a long term tracking as opposed to just coming up with a rating. The rating portion is more or less just to give you baseline with which to compare your play over a period of time. My thought was to also try to extrapolate other peoples "rating" from the data given as much as possible to easily correlate to known rating systems, but that is more just as a "hey, isn't that cool" feature.

Brian
Click to expand...
 
ctyhntr said:
As its currently written up, its geared as an instant read of how you're playing today, like a thermometer taking a temperature, than for long term tracking.

How about take the ratings for two players. Compare to known handicap systems, and then select a fair handicap, along with a set of rules (BCA, APA, etc). It could give you an opinion, ranging from 'Its a Lock Up', 'Taking Candy From a Baby', "Fair Match-Up" to "Ask for Weight" and extreme "Even Efren Couldn't Get for Enough Weight". :-)

Henry
Click to expand...

Lots could be done along those lines if enough people use it. Hell, maybe spit out race numbers between 2 players and what someone should be spotted, etc. Of course, all that would be assuming that people accurately put in the info. Could also do a "assumed" rank for someone you're playing, like "I'm playing an 8 in APA 9 ball, what will make this even"... The options are limitless once you start getting numbers into the system... I also have access to some very gifted mathematicians to vet my formulas, so I can come up with some really fun things with the numbers.
 
Great idea. I don't know if i think i need anymore info than games won and winning percentage of games and matches, as well as balls made. If it gets to be too much info, it will become too tedious. It would be nice to be able to include whatever stats you want tracked, and remove whatever ones you do not.
 
mantis99 said:
Great idea. I don't know if i think i need anymore info than games won and winning percentage of games and matches, as well as balls made. If it gets to be too much info, it will become too tedious. It would be nice to be able to include whatever stats you want tracked, and remove whatever ones you do not.
Click to expand...

Yeah, part of what I want is simplicity, if it's too complicated people won't use it... I have some ideas on how to make adding more info pretty simple, especially if someone is using the phone based app.
 
Take it from me!

I have been down this road before, and you end up tracking way too much data. It becomes too tedious and you end up dropping it.

Why is everyone wanting to do this in the first place. To get your rating, that's easy to do. Here is how it is done:

1) Go ask 5 people that play better than you what they rate you as.
2) Average the 5 answers, and you have a pretty accurate rating.

You see, it makes no difference what you think you are, it only matters what other players think you are, and that's because they will base their negotiations for a game with you on what they think you are, which includes any spots by you or for you.

I have played for 49 years now, and there is only 1 statistic that I keep track of:

1) My win percentage of hill-to-hill matches, which is 88% BTW. This tells me how well I am standing up to the pressure and how smart I am playing.
 
This is a good idea and I'd use it. I practice at home and would use my laptop not my phone.

These are the items I track:

1) The Break: Balls on break/Dry break/Scratch on break

2) Win/Loss

3) How the game ended: Poor position/Missed shot/Scratch/Early out on 9

I started with the 5 ball ghost and worked my way up to the 9 ball ghost. To advance to the next level, I had to beat the ghost in a long race (at least 20). Normally I race to 5 or 10 due to time constraints. Even though I have legitimatley defeated the 8 ball ghost, I'm still not in the 9 ball ghost's league. I'm very close on my good days but on average, he owns me.

If I can keep the demons out of my head when I leave my basement...
 
Snapshot9 said:
Why is everyone wanting to do this in the first place. To get your rating, that's easy to do. Here is how it is done:

1) Go ask 5 people that play better than you what they rate you as.
2) Average the 5 answers, and you have a pretty accurate rating.
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point. The PRIMARY objective of this is to track your progress over time. I could honestly give a rats ass about what a purely offensive game with zero pressure says my ranking should be, in what makes a person an A/B/C/D player is so much more then how many balls they can run with ball in hand. What I care about is a way to track my progress during my practices. I want to know what the average number of balls I make on the break is. I want to know what my average ball run is. I want to know how consistent I am. I could have an average ball run of 4.5, but that doesn't mean much if I'm either running 9 balls or 2 balls and never actually doing 4.5. These are the things I'm looking at, and being able to make pretty graphs of progress on these stats over time.

Now, it's fairly trivial for me once I have the numbers into the system to spit out "rankings" based on other peoples numbers that equate to A/B/C/D if people want that, and it appears some do. But that is just a nice bonus feature.

Brian
 
chevybob20 said:
This is a good idea and I'd use it. I practice at home and would use my laptop not my phone.

These are the items I track:

1) The Break: Balls on break/Dry break/Scratch on break

2) Win/Loss

3) How the game ended: Poor position/Missed shot/Scratch/Early out on 9
Click to expand...

Those are the things I was looking at, along with how many balls you pocketed after BIH. I think I can get all the information with someone only have 3 drop down boxes to click on each game (and easily can make up a paper based scoresheet someone can print out with just some boxes to make X's on and write a number or two down.

Thanks,
Brian
 
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