Cutting Added Money

G

gotama

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi y'all

Just to make one thing clear from the begin: I appreciate every pool hall owner or promoter adding money to a tournament. Whenever there is more payout than all the entry fees together it means a gain.

On the other hand I really wonder if it's of anybody's advantage, also the pool hall onwer's/promoter's, when added money get cut due to just a small amount of players? As a player I pick tournaments with the most added money/highest total purse. Lately I played two tourneys with a $1000 and $500 added. They ended up with $500/$300 added instead! In my point of view this is not only NOT fair for all the players that make their way to the tournament (sometimes with a 90min to 3h ride) but also bad promotion for the pool hall owner/promoter.
It's obviously not the attending player's fault that not more players found ther way there. More likely it's the ph owner's/promoter's failure in promoting the event right. Attending players get punished and probably also discouraged to come by again next time.

What do you think about this issue? Should there be only guaranteed added money (even if it's a little less than it would be without guarantee) and would it be helpful for players to have a "black list" (on AZB for example) with locations that cut their money without a full field?

Thank you all for your opinion

Marcus
 
gotama said:
Hi y'all

Just to make one thing clear from the begin: I appreciate every pool hall owner or promoter adding money to a tournament. Whenever there is more payout than all the entry fees together it means a gain.

On the other hand I really wonder if it's of anybody's advantage, also the pool hall onwer's/promoter's, when added money get cut due to just a small amount of players? As a player I pick tournaments with the most added money/highest total purse. Lately I played two tourneys with a $1000 and $500 added. They ended up with $500/$300 added instead! In my point of view this is not only NOT fair for all the players that make their way to the tournament (sometimes with a 90min to 3h ride) but also bad promotion for the pool hall owner/promoter.
It's obviously not the attending player's fault that not more players found ther way there. More likely it's the ph owner's/promoter's failure in promoting the event right. Attending players get punished and probably also discouraged to come by again next time.

What do you think about this issue? Should there be only guaranteed added money (even if it's a little less than it would be without guarantee) and would it be helpful for players to have a "black list" (on AZB for example) with locations that cut their money without a full field?

Thank you all for your opinion

Marcus
Click to expand...


Hi Marcus,

This is a tuff question to answer, but I will try from a pool room owners perspective. You are correct that the room is responsible in promoting all events. When I add money to an event I make sure that I get the word out to as many players as I can. I do believe that the players should also spread the word.

In most cases room owners will not make enough money back in sales to even cover the added, so most of us know that this is a write off.

I believe that if you are adding more than $2000 there should be a statement reading $2000 added with a full field. This lets everyone know if the show is low the room has the right to adjust the added. In my case if I recieve 75% of my goal I will add all.
 
Thank you for your reply. I can only say that you are right. The only thing that is a little unrealistic nowadays is that players don't want other (strong) players to attend so they can keep the competition small. If this is smart of them?: I don't think so! Because like this the whole pool scene gets more and more lame.

That part of the added money has to written off by the ph owner or the promoter is (I guess) obvious and at this point I really wanna thank all of them who add money to a tournament, if it's 10k or just a hundred dollars. What I am saying is just that it might be wiser to have a guaranteed added money (even if it's less than it would be without guarantee) and mention on the flyer that the added money will be even increased with a full field. Like this players know the "worst case" deal and also see what could be in if many players join the tournament. Like this there wouldn't be any unpleasant or unexpected surprise. This would also serve the ph owners/promoters.
 
gotama said:
Thank you for your reply. I can only say that you are right. The only thing that is a little unrealistic nowadays is that players don't want other (strong) players to attend so they can keep the competition small. If this is smart of them?: I don't think so! Because like this the whole pool scene gets more and more lame.

That part of the added money has to written off by the ph owner or the promoter is (I guess) obvious and at this point I really wanna thank all of them who add money to a tournament, if it's 10k or just a hundred dollars. What I am saying is just that it might be wiser to have a guaranteed added money (even if it's less than it would be without guarantee) and mention on the flyer that the added money will be even increased with a full field. Like this players know the "worst case" deal and also see what could be in if many players join the tournament. Like this there wouldn't be any unpleasant or unexpected surprise. This would also serve the ph owners/promoters.
Click to expand...

You have a good idea on the guaranted money and the raise on a full field. The one thing I know, It is not always about how much added money is in a tournament, if the tournament is well ran and respected most players will show.
 
That's true. Players appreciate good promoters and are not only looking for the $$$. Another reason for my suggestion. If they know that you are running a good tournament they will become frequent players. Additionally you might now attract players from further away too because they know the deal and can figure out better if a long ride and the gas money is worth it to visit your tournament. And as you said: once they know you are running a nice tourney I am sure they come back again!

It's a pity Cali is so far away from Texas though ;)

all the best for the weekend!

Marcus
 
Our fraternal organization has a weekly bingo. We guarantee a minimum payout on all games. There had been a few times due to weather or other circumstances where we didn't take in as much as we paid out. It was loses well spent as word got around that we don't cut the pot. No matter what the conditions are we always get enough players now as they know that the money will be there. On bad weather nights we may even get more as they come out hoping that the crowd will be low. We also get players from other bingos because they know that those payouts will be lower due to less players and ours won't be.

I think the worst thing to do is not pay out the max. Players go after the money because they need it. It also cost them their time and money to show up. Their costs to do that are still the same and they have no way of knowing how many will be there. After a few times of a lesser payoff they will stay away.
 
gotama said:
Hi y'all

Just to make one thing clear from the begin: I appreciate every pool hall owner or promoter adding money to a tournament. Whenever there is more payout than all the entry fees together it means a gain.

On the other hand I really wonder if it's of anybody's advantage, also the pool hall onwer's/promoter's, when added money get cut due to just a small amount of players? As a player I pick tournaments with the most added money/highest total purse. Lately I played two tourneys with a $1000 and $500 added. They ended up with $500/$300 added instead! In my point of view this is not only NOT fair for all the players that make their way to the tournament (sometimes with a 90min to 3h ride) but also bad promotion for the pool hall owner/promoter.
It's obviously not the attending player's fault that not more players found ther way there. More likely it's the ph owner's/promoter's failure in promoting the event right. Attending players get punished and probably also discouraged to come by again next time.

What do you think about this issue? Should there be only guaranteed added money (even if it's a little less than it would be without guarantee) and would it be helpful for players to have a "black list" (on AZB for example) with locations that cut their money without a full field?

Thank you all for your opinion

Marcus
Click to expand...


Marcus, just a quick thought.

You mention that you go to tournaments based on how much added money. Just curious if you would attend an event if it was posted as "Money added will equal to 50 % of sales from 12:00 to 7:00".

We actually had a roomowner do that in our area and only a few people came to play. It was a $15 handicapped tournament that used to be $300 added. We used to get 30-40 players. I am guessing that most of the players who came in didn't spend anything because after a year he changed the money added to % of sales. Players stopped coming because everyone knew the money added would be really small.

The tournament died a year ago.

I think part of the issue is that room owners are getting very little or no return on their money.

Players who play tournaments need to start supporting the rooms that host the tournaments.

Leagueguy
 
I agree. Its tough for a room owner to put on an event when all they sell is a bunch of free icewater. Pool players get a little too greedy a lot of times. They don't tell their fellow players because they want to steal the tourney themselves and they're usually too cheap to spend anything. It cuts their own throats more times than it doesn't.



LeagueGuy said:
Marcus, just a quick thought.

You mention that you go to tournaments based on how much added money. Just curious if you would attend an event if it was posted as "Money added will equal to 50 % of sales from 12:00 to 7:00".

We actually had a roomowner do that in our area and only a few people came to play. It was a $15 handicapped tournament that used to be $300 added. We used to get 30-40 players. I am guessing that most of the players who came in didn't spend anything because after a year he changed the money added to % of sales. Players stopped coming because everyone knew the money added would be really small.

The tournament died a year ago.

I think part of the issue is that room owners are getting very little or no return on their money.

Players who play tournaments need to start supporting the rooms that host the tournaments.

Leagueguy
Click to expand...
 
I'll just say, I don't pay any attention to "added money". I don't go to a tournament to make money, I go to play good players and have fun. That IMHO is what local tournaments are about.

I'll also add, that I play in a local tournament about once a month (it's held weekly). The bar adds $75 to it. $15 entry fee (I think $5 is greens fees). Normally 20-30 people show up for it. So, say, there are 30. Owner gets $150 in greens fees, but pays out $75 added, so, he's "up" $75. Those 30 players are playing on the tables either in matches, practice before, or practice between, or practice on empty tables after they are eliminated all night. Of those 30 people, normally 2 maybe 3 will be drinking something other than soda. The 2 or 3 drinking will normally also order food. So, you have 27 people drinking soda all night and keeping the waitresses busy (and possibly needing an additional one because of the number of people) and away from the bar side where it's filled with drinkers to make $75 and change.

Why do they run the tournament? Because the owner enjoys having the people there as it has a very high level of skilled players showing up. Many of their names most people on AZB would recognize who show up to it on occasion. I don't think most of them are there for the money either, but for playing the skilled players and being able to say you won it.

Brian
 
Really...?

As a former room owner, I first want to say that if a room is advertising a tournament, the tournament should be played no matter what the circumstances. By not having a tournament or cutting the added money you are alienating the players that did make an effort to show. It is worth the loss to create the good will and to let players know that when you say you are having a tournament, it will go off.

That said, added money can be advertised various ways.

1) Total Added money with conditions.
example: $500 added with full field of 64

2) Added money by player entry.
example 1: $8 added money per entrant.
example 2: $50 Entry ($42 to prize fund, $8 green fee) All green fees donated to the prize fund.

3) Combination
example: $8 added money per entrant or $500 Added with full field of 64.

If these guidelines are used, there should never be any problem with the Added money.

I think it is also good for the rooms in the advertising to show what the total purse would be with a full field. If they are looking for a 64 player tournment it should look like this:
9-Ball for ALL
​
$500 Added and $3,000+ total prize fund
(based on a full field of 64 entrants)​

That should take care of any bad feelings that should arise out of changing the added money.

Room Owners...once again if you say you are going to have a tournament, have a tournament. Players want to be secure in the knowledge that it is going to happen no matter what. If you don't use the tips above, I might be the guy to take you to small claims. You advertised something and didn't keep your contractual promise. The 4 players that did show up will be happy and have nothing but good to say about you and your establishment. That in turn will only make the business grow. Write it off to a leaning experience and the best advertising there is, word of mouth.
 
I like the idea of Guarunteeing a minimum 1st place prize money regarless of the turnout.

If the guarunteed added is based on entries, 32/64/96 or 128 that is fine. But at least throw a bone for 1st place.

A 3 hour drive to play in a tournament is/can be expensive. Gas, food and possibly an overnight stay in a motel/hotel, can add up quick and make a big dent into a $150 4th place payout and possibly wipe out a 7th place $75 payout.

Why bother? unless you need the competition to continue to maintain that competitive advantage when those $2000 added guarunteed tournament do happen.
 
Wow! Nice how many opinions already came together. Thank you all.

Of course not every player is looking for the $$$ but some are and I think that's okay too. Everybody has his/her own reasons to attend a tourney and for some uf us the money is a reason.

@LeagueGuy: as a former pool hall manager I have to admit that I like your example. As a player I have to admit that I probably wouldn't play in a tournament like that. It's just too... hmmm... unspecific in my opinion. I like to see some number, however they look like, with which I can figure out if it's worth it to go or not. If the tournament is in my area I even might play in a tourney like that but not if I have to drive there for 3 hours and even have to pay a motel for the night, just as "TheBook" mentioned it above. Another thing to think about is that I "buy" a certain product for let's say 50$ (entry-fee). Now the added money and automatically the prize money gets cut due to a not full field. I think that now at least the entry-fee has to be cut as well.

In my point of view a lot of ph owners/promoters just take it easy with cutting the added money and also in promoting the tournament and finding sponsors. If you go out and ask McD's next door, the hair stylist across the street, the car seller down the road or even your brewery or softdrinks distributor you will get at least 500$ together to have a save added money. Like this all the sales, as little as they may be, are save too. I am just saying that organizing a tournament is not just done by making a black-and-white flyer and stick it to the entrance door.
 
gotama said:
Wow! Nice how many opinions already came together. Thank you all.

Of course not every player is looking for the $$$ but some are and I think that's okay too. Everybody has his/her own reasons to attend a tourney and for some uf us the money is a reason.

@LeagueGuy: as a former pool hall manager I have to admit that I like your example. As a player I have to admit that I probably wouldn't play in a tournament like that. It's just too... hmmm... unspecific in my opinion. I like to see some number, however they look like, with which I can figure out if it's worth it to go or not. If the tournament is in my area I even might play in a tourney like that but not if I have to drive there for 3 hours and even have to pay a motel for the night, just as "TheBook" mentioned it above. Another thing to think about is that I "buy" a certain product for let's say 50$ (entry-fee). Now the added money and automatically the prize money gets cut due to a not full field. I think that now at least the entry-fee has to be cut as well.

In my point of view a lot of ph owners/promoters just take it easy with cutting the added money and also in promoting the tournament and finding sponsors. If you go out and ask McD's next door, the hair stylist across the street, the car seller down the road or even your brewery or softdrinks distributor you will get at least 500$ together to have a save added money. Like this all the sales, as little as they may be, are save too. I am just saying that organizing a tournament is not just done by making a black-and-white flyer and stick it to the entrance door.
Click to expand...

If you hold the pool room owner to the fire when an event is new, the event won't last, like if 12-13 players show for a 64 man bracket. If they have been doing them for any length of time and/or if it was 60 players showing up for a 64 man event it would be different.

I have been running a mid-level monthly event in Waco for over 5 yrs. It's always a gamble to do them. If you focus on 1) Doing your very best and 2) Having a good time. 3) Show some support of the venues that are holding these events and help get the word out for next month. Hit your facebook pages with a notice. Hit your twitter page. ( :shocked: ). Tell your friends at the poolroom.

I think the rooms should guarantee so much added for each player. Then its on all of us to "get the word out".

Ray
 
cabilliardclub said:
You have a good idea on the guaranted money and the raise on a full field. The one thing I know, It is not always about how much added money is in a tournament, if the tournament is well ran and respected most players will show.
Click to expand...

This quarterly, WEEKEND bar table tournament in Lafayette, LA draws 128 players every time, for this VERY REASON.

The owner makes sure that the players understand that there is ZERO TOLERANCE for deal-making, dumping, sharking, rig-racking etc. The humongous Calcutta has something to do with the big draw but that too would disappear if there were deal-making, dumping, sharking, or rig-racking. The owner's ability to hold a Calcutta and get Ebenezer Scrooge to part with his last C note helps too.

Added money should state it is guaranteed added money or should bodly state, "ADDED MONEY IF FULL FIELD" or other such as, "X Amount of dollars based upon X Amount of players • Added money will be prorated based upon the number of players".

The truth is that as the original poster mentioned, a lot of players go to tournaments because they advertise the added money and expect it to be there when they arrive regardless of the number of people attending.

FOR ROOM OWNERS: I still don't understand why MOST room owners do not utilize email and text messaging to get the word out to prospective players about the tournaments. The cost is virtually free and it is very effective in this day and time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top