why should a players handicap be raised due to beating lower level players ? let me explain why i ask this. due to the fact that i was matched or shall i say mismatched against opponents that are 2 levels below me the last 2 weeks in a row my handicap went up this week. on the way home after my last match my gf said that my handicap would probably go up. i asked her what made her think so ? she said because i ran 4 racks in 3 innings. she then explained how the handicap system works since i am new to league play.( shot pool in bars all my life ).i refuse to sandbag but is it my fault my oppenents cant make more than 1 or 2 balls each trip to the table? i have faced several players at this higher level that i am moving up to before. i couldnt beat them when they spotted me a game. how can i compete with them playing even ? lets use this example. a mid level road player comes thru your town an whips a few of your skill level 7 or 8 players. do you think he can match up with svb or effren just because he beat some players a level or two below him ? i dont think so. sorry for the long winded rant, just had to get this off my chest. i am not bashing the league, i happen to like it. just happen to think they should take into consideration the level of the opponent tou face,notjust the number of innings played. would like to hear some opinions without it turning into another league bashing thread.
question for league operators
- Thread starter lorider
- Start date
I'm not a LO, but here is my honest opinion...
You ran 4 racks in 3 innings....that means you can compete against an SL7 or 8. If you average 1 to 2 innings per game, then you are an SL7.
Think about it from your opponent's perspective....this guy just destroyed me...there is no way he is an SL6.
What do you expect? Do you expect the handicapping calculator to just discard all the matches when you hit a gear?
If you are new to a handicap league, it will take time for your skill level to equalize.
If you take the average of 2 numbers, then it's not going to be as accurate as taking the average of 20 numbers.
Forget about the skill levels, or what the race is. Just play your best.
-Mat P.
Last edited:
Regardless of the system being used, you are a new player so there is very little data on you. I'm sure there were players at your previous level that couldn't beat you even if you spotted them a game, just like you feel you can't beat some of the players at your new level even if they spot you.
You have to give any system time to work. The more data the system has, the more accurate your skill level should be, and the less likely it will be to move after one or two good matches. Just keep giving an honest effort every time and eventually you will find your place on the scale.
You have to give any system time to work. The more data the system has, the more accurate your skill level should be, and the less likely it will be to move after one or two good matches. Just keep giving an honest effort every time and eventually you will find your place on the scale.
Maybe not, but he can probably match up with players a level or two above the ones he whipped, right?
In my time in the league I have seen two crazy things that spanned a session. One session my team basically couldn't lose a game and I was the only one who went up. I felt that I needed to go up and just as well felt that no one else on the team needed to go up, but thought it amazing that it didn't happen.
The next session I was on a team that just couldn't lose except for two players. I went up again and deserved it again, but two others went up as well that didn't deserve it. One went up who didn't even play the week they moved him up. The next got moved up during the playoffs. She beat someone 19-1 in APA 9 ball and the girl she beat protested. With no questions asked she got moved up to a SL4. An answer to the question that should have been asked was that she won 19-1 because she got BiH 2-5 times per rack. Heck she should've won 20-0. Needless to say that girl has won a total of 2 matches since October.
I finally had enough of the blood letting with the girl on my team who got moved up due to protest and put a request in to have her lowered back down. I put in a detailed explanation as to why and also put in a request to mark down how many times a player gets BiH during a match as well to try to keep things like this from happening. I will see what actually happens with that.
*edit* Just for bragging rights I will add that in both sessions my teams won the Big Dog for the Charlotte Metro APA which is cool. That is two BD in a row for me
The next session I was on a team that just couldn't lose except for two players. I went up again and deserved it again, but two others went up as well that didn't deserve it. One went up who didn't even play the week they moved him up. The next got moved up during the playoffs. She beat someone 19-1 in APA 9 ball and the girl she beat protested. With no questions asked she got moved up to a SL4. An answer to the question that should have been asked was that she won 19-1 because she got BiH 2-5 times per rack. Heck she should've won 20-0. Needless to say that girl has won a total of 2 matches since October.
I finally had enough of the blood letting with the girl on my team who got moved up due to protest and put a request in to have her lowered back down. I put in a detailed explanation as to why and also put in a request to mark down how many times a player gets BiH during a match as well to try to keep things like this from happening. I will see what actually happens with that.
*edit* Just for bragging rights I will add that in both sessions my teams won the Big Dog for the Charlotte Metro APA which is cool. That is two BD in a row for me
Think about it from the lower rated players you crushed perspectives. They think your underrated.
In my time in the league I have seen two crazy things that spanned a session. One session my team basically couldn't lose a game and I was the only one who went up. I felt that I needed to go up and just as well felt that no one else on the team needed to go up, but thought it amazing that it didn't happen.
The next session I was on a team that just couldn't lose except for two players. I went up again and deserved it again, but two others went up as well that didn't deserve it. One went up who didn't even play the week they moved him up. The next got moved up during the playoffs. She beat someone 19-1 in APA 9 ball and the girl she beat protested. With no questions asked she got moved up to a SL4. An answer to the question that should have been asked was that she won 19-1 because she got BiH 2-5 times per rack. Heck she should've won 20-0. Needless to say that girl has won a total of 2 matches since October.
I finally had enough of the blood letting with the girl on my team who got moved up due to protest and put a request in to have her lowered back down. I put in a detailed explanation as to why and also put in a request to mark down how many times a player gets BiH during a match as well to try to keep things like this from happening. I will see what actually happens with that.
*edit* Just for bragging rights I will add that in both sessions my teams won the Big Dog for the Charlotte Metro APA which is cool. That is two BD in a row for me
First off, I am a APA league operator. I absolutely agree with you that being able to see how many BIH's a player gets in 9 Ball would certainly help me in doing any type of handicap review. That being said, here's the flip side to that - scorekeeping in 9 Ball is a pain in the a$$ and adding anything else to it just compounds it.
I hope you continue to give the APA a chance and remember a league is only as good as the operator that manages it.
i appreciate all the responses to my post. my situation is much like the girl in gunzbys post. as apa operator said with me being relatively unknown they started me as a 3. this is my 3rd session. i play double jeapordy. (thats 8 ball and 9 ball the same night ). the end of 1st session i am a 4 in both. im good with that. begining of 2nd session im moved to a 5 in 9 ball after the same scenario gunzby stated. here is where the problem starts. i lose the next 10 games in a row in 9 ball but im doin ok in 8 ball as a 4. end of session i talk to my lo and ask him to take a close look at my record in 9 ball. i dont ask him to lower my handicap,just to review it. he lowered me back to a 4 begining this session. now this is where my rant begins in my 1st post,played 2 skill level 2s the last 2 weeks that barely know which end of a stick to shoot with and now im a 5 in 8 ball. i see the same thing happening to me this session that i went thru in 9 ball last session. i qualified for the regionals which are 2 weeks away and was set on going. now im not so sure about going. i love the challenge of playing better players but in this economy i cant afford to travel just to get my a** handed to me by the best 5s in the state.
So the answer is don't get your ass handed to you!
Go and play your game, and see how you stack up, in competition, not based on how everyone is ranked. You'll probably surprise yourself.(BTW, I'm in a similar situation as yourself. I ran off 9 or 10 in a row in the summer session, got raised to a SL5 and have only won 2 or 3 since. We just gotta keep after it, you and I!)
thanks for the input justadub. after thinking about what you said i am going to the regionals and see how it goes. at least i got notice 2 weeks notice my handicap is raised. last time it was raised i didnt know until the day i walked into the oiil hall for the top gun tournament. i qualified as i 3 and had to play as a 4. lost my 1st match,shook it off and to ci=oin a phrase i have heard many times i just quit playing the player and played the table and won the tournament. not only am i new to league but new to this forum also. how do you post up a quote to somebody such as you put in my quote when you replied to me ? thanks for the reply.
The "quote" button is in the lower right hand corner. It'll bring up a window and you can edit the previous post if you wish, or leave it intact like I did this time. There is a way to do multiple quotes, but I've not bothered to figure that out, haven't had the need.
I'm glad you're gonna give it a go. Even as poorly as I'm playing lately, I'm thinking about going to our state singles qualifier tournament next week, assuming work and family schedules allow. That will be a couple hours travel for me, just like you're up against. It's been said quite often, the only way we're gonna get better is to play better opponents. Tough luck for them if we turn out to be better on that particular day, right?
Let's report back and see how we did, 'k? Good luck.
The "quote" button is in the lower right hand corner. It'll bring up a window and you can edit the previous post if you wish, or leave it intact like I did this time. There is a way to do multiple quotes, but I've not bothered to figure that out, haven't had the need.
I'm glad you're gonna give it a go. Even as poorly as I'm playing lately, I'm thinking about going to our state singles qualifier tournament next week, assuming work and family schedules allow. That will be a couple hours travel for me, just like you're up against. It's been said quite often, the only way we're gonna get better is to play better opponents. Tough luck for them if we turn out to be better on that particular day, right?
Let's report back and see how we did, 'k? Good luck.
thanks for the help. i will let you know how i do. i failed to mention that the singles is what i am in also. our team made it to the tri cup last 2 sessions but cant seem to make it past that. good luck to you in your regionals. maybe if we both do good we can meet in vegas.
So the answer is don't get your ass handed to you!
(BTW, I'm in a similar situation as yourself. I ran off 9 or 10 in a row in the summer session, got raised to a SL5 and have only won 2 or 3 since. We just gotta keep after it, you and I!)
I'm in the same boat as you dub. I shoot dj 2 days a week and im a 4 in both. One of my teams made the money cup in 9 ball so we hit the tables hard the 2 weeks leading up to it. Before that week I was siting on 22% winning percentage over my last 30 matches in 9 ball. Lost 4 of the last 7 i played, some big. In the week of money cup I won 5 out of 6 games. Beat a 3 18-2, a 2 17-3 during regular league, then in the money cup beat a 5 18-2, a 4 19-1 and lost to a 4 15-5. I went up to a 5 the very next week.
The way i played in the cup gives me hope that I know when i put the time in i can shoot and compete as a 5 but i dont have the time to get in the table time during my normal 60+ work week. I dont have a home table either. So now that I went up its hurting my team as to who we can play plus if I am still a 5 when cities start I will not be able to play because we can't make handicap.
Oh and question we have a singles qualifier comeing up here in a few weeks. I have never played in one before. Do you only play your handicap the whole time? DO the games count toward your regular handicap?
Double post sorry..
Last edited:
you are looking at it the wrong way. just because you are playing a lower handicap doesnt mean you cannot go up. its mostly based on how well you performed. think about it, you ran more racks than innings. a 5,6, or 7 can miss a ball in a game and then hand it back to you with you running the table.
HAHAHA, wait til you get raised after a loss....seen it happen.
I finally just quit thinking about how a handicapped systems "should" work....JUST PLAY.
If I whip up on someone ranked higher and lose to someone lower...screw it, don't care anymore if someone is over/under rated or if they sandbag, etc. I don't care. If I play well....good enough for me from now on.
I'll save accurate handicapping for match-ups - how many balls to give/get in 1P, etc. In that situation, I "want" an even match-up (unlike MANY)....
I finally just quit thinking about how a handicapped systems "should" work....JUST PLAY.
If I whip up on someone ranked higher and lose to someone lower...screw it, don't care anymore if someone is over/under rated or if they sandbag, etc. I don't care. If I play well....good enough for me from now on.
I'll save accurate handicapping for match-ups - how many balls to give/get in 1P, etc. In that situation, I "want" an even match-up (unlike MANY)....
This will be my first time to a singles qualifier, as well. So I'm no authority. From what I've read, at ours it's broken into groups. 2's/3's/4's in one group, 5's in another and 6's/7's in yet another. (I'm playing 8-ball. I don't know how they handle 8's and 9's for 9-ball.) So if I understand it correctly, I'll only be playing other 5's.
I am also not sure if the matches played will go against our handicaps. Where I play, in team competition, our divisional playoff matches, tri-cup matches, and state vegas qualifier matches do count against the handicap. But our individual best-of-the-best matches do not. As I said, this will be my first singles qualifier match so I do not know the answer.
Best of luck, to all of us.