You're not an A, B, C player till you can do what?

[hang-the-9]

Where is the level distinction drawn? Do you need to string multiple racks in a set to be an A? What if you can only run multiple racks every few sets but can lay down smart safes?

When can you say "I'm an A" player? Or a B player? I read about an average ball per inning score, like a B would run 4-5 balls on average and end with a miss or maybe a good or poor save, an A can run 6-9 an inning and end with a safe, etc... This is in 9 ball.

Would playing the ghost 9 over 10-20 racks give you an idea?

 

[dr_dave]

Where is the level distinction drawn? Do you need to string multiple racks in a set to be an A? What if you can only run multiple racks every few sets but can lay down smart safes?

When can you say "I'm an A" player? Or a B player? I read about an average ball per inning score, like a B would run 4-5 balls on average and end with a miss or maybe a good or poor save, an A can run 6-9 an inning and end with a safe, etc... This is in 9 ball.

Would playing the ghost 9 over 10-20 racks give you an idea?

FYI, several detailed descriptions and a rating drill are available here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/ratings.html#A-D​

Check it out,
Dave

 

[justadub]

Dr.Dave, do you have a relative comparison for 8-ball? We're very 8-ball-centric 'round here, not much 9-ball.

I've read your ratings stuff several times before, but haven't found anything that would give me perspective. If I've missed it, I apologize in advance.

 

[ctyhntr]

How accurate are APA levels? I was told from SL 2-5, roughly correspond to the number of balls you can run in 1 inning.

Dr.Dave, do you have a relative comparison for 8-ball? We're very 8-ball-centric 'round here, not much 9-ball.

I've read your ratings stuff several times before, but haven't found anything that would give me perspective. If I've missed it, I apologize in advance.

 

[grindz]

Where is the level distinction drawn? Do you need to string multiple racks in a set to be an A? What if you can only run multiple racks every few sets but can lay down smart safes?

When can you say "I'm an A" player? Or a B player? I read about an average ball per inning score, like a B would run 4-5 balls on average and end with a miss or maybe a good or poor save, an A can run 6-9 an inning and end with a safe, etc... This is in 9 ball.

Would playing the ghost 9 over 10-20 racks give you an idea?

Others have said on here, and I agree... if you play the 'ghost' an A player should beat 'him' :wink: over 70% of the time. So race the ghost to 10 or 5 or whatever, and play this race multiple times... if you are an A player you should win the 'race' over 7 out of 10. I know this leaves a lot out of the rating... kicks, defense, break, and a lot of strategy... but it does rate someone on sheer offense. The table's toughness weighs in this heavily also.

As to 'B' and below... IDK....

td

 

[breakin8]

In the tap system if you are a 7 and your one of the best in your state your are A player. If you are the best 5 in your state C if you are a 5 and you win 50% of the your games C-. Same thing with a 6 and your should be a 7 because you sand bag B to maybe B+. Thanks just my take i don't play much league pool. I do play on the tri state tour much clearer there.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Others have said on here, and I agree... if you play the 'ghost' an A player should beat 'him' :wink: over 70% of the time. So race the ghost to 10 or 5 or whatever, and play this race multiple times... if you are an A player you should win the 'race' over 7 out of 10. I know this leaves a lot out of the rating... kicks, defense, break, and a lot of strategy... but it does rate someone on sheer offense. The table's toughness weighs in this heavily also.

As to 'B' and below... IDK....

td

I have mixed feelings on this. I think the ghost is a great way to practice but I don't think it should ever be used to gauge ability - not in 9ball, at least.

The truth is, a fair portion of all games played in 9ball start off with someone not having a shot after the break. This means that a fair portion of winning in 9ball involves devising a strategy that will get you that first shot. This is also assuming that once you get a shot, you run out. Mistakes are made on every level and reattaining control of the table after you've committed a mistake is also a great measure of ability.

Now, if we're talking 14.1, you can use the ghost. Someone who routinely runs 30 balls is significantly better than someone who routinely runs 20 and there's no two ways about it. If we're talking about 1hole, the ghost is useless for practice OR for assessing ability.

 

[breakin8]

There is still A+ A ++ open and pro

 

[grindz]

I have mixed feelings on this. I think the ghost is a great way to practice but I don't think it should ever be used to gauge ability - not in 9ball, at least.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.

So you don't think someone who beats the 9 ball ghost ( in over 70% of
the races played ) is an A player???? I know there are a lot of other variables in someones skill level, but do you really think someone is a 'B'
player if they can do this?

You're a tough grader!!! :wink: I'm not sure if I'd want to take your class.

td

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

So you don't think someone who beats the 9 ball ghost ( in over 70% of
the races played ) is an A player???? I know there are a lot of other variables in someones skill level, but do you really think someone is a 'B'
player if they can do this?

You're a tough grader!!! :wink: I'm not sure if I'd want to take your class.

td

You first have to define what an "A player" is for me and your specific rules for the ghost. My understanding of "the ghost" and an "a player", I would have to say yes. 70% would not be an A player. He would be better than that.

 

[Worminator]

Simply put, you become a "B" player when you consistently win "C" tournaments. You become an "A" player when you consistently win "B" tournaments, and be competitive (beating other A players) in an "A" tournament, and so on...

 

[PaulieB]

I rate myself an A player as I'm the best player that plays on the table at my house. As long as I don't go to pool halls I'll remain an A player.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

So you don't think someone who beats the 9 ball ghost ( in over 70% of
the races played ) is an A player???? I know there are a lot of other variables in someones skill level, but do you really think someone is a 'B'
player if they can do this?

You're a tough grader!!! :wink: I'm not sure if I'd want to take your class.

td

To put it bluntly, I place a lot of value in the defensive aspects of 9ball. The ghost ball overlooks this aspect of the game completely. There are a small handful of human beings on this planet who are capable of playing this game without any regard to defense. The other 6 billion of us will occasionally have to play safe.

The value of a safety is really only determined in actual game-play. If you want to get an accurate rating on someone, they're going to have to compete.

 

[Cameron Smith]

To put it bluntly, I place a lot of value in the defensive aspects of 9ball. The ghost ball overlooks this aspect of the game completely. There are a small handful of human beings on this planet who are capable of playing this game without any regard to defense. The other 6 billion of us will occasionally have to play safe.

The value of a safety is really only determined in actual game-play. If you want to get an accurate rating on someone, they're going to have to compete.

I agree with this assessment. It doesn't matter how good of run out player you are if you can't win safety exchanges consistently. A run out player without a safety game will look great against C and B players, but will be stifled once they play stronger competition.

Furthermore, the Ghost is a breaking drill more than anything. If you can break and make 1-3 balls every time....the 9 ball ghost is shockingly easy for an A player or above.

Ultimately the best way to assess your ability is to play other players. You're not an A player until you can consistently beat A players etc. I would'nt worry too much about how many innings you're winning in, just who you are winning against. All of that stuff kind of comes into place naturally as you start knocking off stronger and stronger players.

 

[skeptic]

Not that it matters for anything beyond curiosity, is there a chart or something for 8-ball? I'm a 9 in my BCA league and do use a lot of safeties, but if I'm completely honest in looking over the page linked above I'd call myself a solid C, maybe C+, on my table at home. Bar tables are much easier but only playing half a dozen 8-ball games, including a couple practice, per week doesn't give me a good feel for the tests on that page. BCA rating is almost meaningless - it only rates how well you do against others in your league.

 

[btoneill]

And the question really is, what rating scale? Not all "A" players are "A" players in other systems....

In MN we have MN State rankings that are Master, AA, A, B, and C. An A player in this ranking may very well be a B+ player in one that only goes AA,A,B,C, or, could be a B- player in one that goes A,B,C,D.

I think the usage of A/B/C/etc is way to vague and geographically diverse to be a good way to judge skills apart from people who are in the same area and use the same rankings.

Brian

 

[Koop]

I think tournaments against top level players are a huge indicator. Me for example, I can play like a high B when it doesn't matter but then, at times, I play like a high C when the pressure is on. I've been doing much better lately but I have a long way to go.
Pressure is a huge barometer, IMO.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I agree with this assessment. It doesn't matter how good of run out player you are if you can't win safety exchanges consistently. A run out player without a safety game will look great against C and B players, but will be stifled once they play stronger competition.

Furthermore, the Ghost is a breaking drill more than anything. If you can break and make 1-3 balls every time....the 9 ball ghost is shockingly easy for an A player or above.

Ultimately the best way to assess your ability is to play other players. You're not an A player until you can consistently beat A players etc. I would'nt worry too much about how many innings you're winning in, just who you are winning against. All of that stuff kind of comes into place naturally as you start knocking off stronger and stronger players.

One of the top players in my area ("Ginky") is known for liberally using safety play. If he has an offensive shot that is even remotely difficult to execute and has a defensive option that is easy AND will likely yield BIH, he'll see it immediately and take it.

Now, here's the fun part. Given the exact same scenario, Mika Immonen would likely run out and Tony Robles might do either. Whether a player runs out or runs to a lock-up safety and then gets out, both are perfect in accu-stats and, more importantly, both are "Ws".

 

[cleary]

The ability to win should also mean something. You can fit every aspect of A/B/C/D player, but if you can't win you're overrated.

 

[grindz]

To put it bluntly, I place a lot of value in the defensive aspects of 9ball. The ghost ball overlooks this aspect of the game completely. There are a small handful of human beings on this planet who are capable of playing this game without any regard to defense. The other 6 billion of us will occasionally have to play safe.

The value of a safety is really only determined in actual game-play. If you want to get an accurate rating on someone, they're going to have to compete.

Okay Jude.... UNCLE..... Someone needs to win 100% of the races to 5 or more on a 9' table playing ghost 9 ball with break, BIH and standard 9 ball rules. Seriously, below are 'your' words from Dr Dave's link. An 'aura
of confidence' .... wow... there's a measurable quantity.
:wink:
.................
A - Definitely categorized as a run out player. They are supposed to capitalize on most mistakes. Greater attention is paid to more subtle details. Expect a consistent and strong break and strength in multiple attributes (pocketing, defense, position play, creativity). Most noticeable among players at this level and above is an aura of confidence.
..........................

I'm J/K in case it doesn't come through. I was just trying to help out the OP with a definite checklist.

Whatever.

td