call shot 10 ball question

G

gordml

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This issue sparked a few different answers during the SBE stream:
I dont get it so any clarification would help (thx)

In call shot 10 ball;

If a player misses, does his opponent have the option of making him shoot again?

If not then what is the point of calling safe?

something weird about this......:confused:
 
gordml said:
This issue sparked a few different answers during the SBE stream:
I dont get it so any clarification would help (thx)

In call shot 10 ball;

If a player misses, does his opponent have the option of making him shoot again?

If not then what is the point of calling safe?

something weird about this......:confused:
Click to expand...

According the the World Standardized Rules (WPA) the incoming player has the option to pass the table back on a miss if a called ball is pocketed in a wrong pocket or another ball falls. On a simple miss where no ball goes down the incoming player must take the balls in position. At the SBE I believe they have the additional rule that the incoming player has the option to give the table back on ANY miss (in other words, even if no ball falls). At least this is the way it was played last year. So there is a reason to call a safety in 10 Ball, especially under the SBE rules.

The idea is to force the player to commit to either making the shot he's intending or to commit to playing safe. And it eliminates the shooter from being rewarded (or the incoming player from being penalized) on a shooters mistake, like when he misses and gets a good roll and hooks his opponent. The rule does take the 2 way shot out of the game.

Hope this helps.
 
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DogsPlayingPool said:
According the the World Standardized Rules (WPA) the incoming player has the option to pass the table back on a miss if a called ball is pocketed in a wrong pocket or another ball falls. On a simple miss where no ball goes down the incoming player must take the balls in position. At the SBE I believe they have the additional rule that the incoming player has the option to give the table back on ANY miss (in other words, even if no ball falls). At least this is the way it was played last year. So there is a reason to call a safety in 10 Ball, especially under the SBE rules.

The idea is to force the player to commit to either making the shot he's intending or to commit to playing safe. And it eliminates the shooter from being rewarded (or the incoming player from being penalized) on a shooters mistake, like when he misses and gets a good roll and hooks his opponent. The rule does take the 2 way shot out of the game.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Yes thanks for clarifying that its an additional rule at the SBE. I looked up the rules and it doesn't say that the incoming player can refuse the table anytime a ball is not made.
Also there were lots of safeties played at the sbe but u never heard the player say "safe".
 
What about 2 way Shots??

I think they should allow 2 way shots in call shot 10 ball.

I saw a shot where Corey was on the 2 and played a carom on the 10.
He missed the 10 but the 2 went naturally cross side off the 10.

Since he didn't call both shots - he wound up selling out and losing the game.

Seems unfair. He knew the deuce was going cross side but how could he be sure enough to call it off the 10?

What if he calls the 10 OR the deuce ?

I realize that it would be abused - people calling this or that on and on.

So maybe you can call one - 2 way shot per rack??

How about that 10 ball fans?
 
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gordml said:
Yes thanks for clarifying that its an additional rule at the SBE. I looked up the rules and it doesn't say that the incoming player can refuse the table anytime a ball is not made.
Also there were lots of safeties played at the sbe but u never heard the player say "safe".
Click to expand...

gordml said:
Yes thanks for clarifying that its an additional rule at the SBE. I looked up the rules and it doesn't say that the incoming player can refuse the table anytime a ball is not made.
Also there were lots of safeties played at the sbe but u never heard the player say "safe".
Click to expand...

Glad I could help. The Predator Tony Robles tour on the East Coast also plays with this additional rule as do a few other events. As for calling safe, I suppose it is like most shots, it is probably obvious by how the player executes the shot in question. It is also possible that the safe was called but wasn't audible on the stream.

RailDawg said:
I think they should allow 2 way shots in call shot 10 ball.

I saw a shot where Corey was on the 2 and played a carom on the 10.
He missed the 10 but the 2 went naturally cross side off the 10.

Since he didn't call both shots - he wound up selling out and losing the game.

Seems unfair. He knew the deuce was going cross side but how could he be sure enough to call it off the 10?

What if he calls the 10 OR the deuce ?

I realize that it would be abused - people calling this or that on and on.

So maybe you can call one - 2 way shot per rack??

How about that 10 ball fans?
Click to expand...

Well, in standard 10 Ball played under World Rules there is room for the 2 way shot (shot/safety) as long as no ball falls. As for the 2 Way shot involving the object ball and the 10 ball, that is eliminated.

BTW, you cannot call more than 1 shot. So you cannot call both the 2 and the 10. Not sure what you mean by calling the 2 or the 10. If you mean that he can call both but only one of them needs to go in, you can't so that. But he can call the 2 or the 10 meaning he can choose which ONE he is calling, but he can only call one of them. And then he is committed to that particular shot.

The whole idea of call shot 10 Ball is to eliminate slop and the luck that occurs sometimes on misses. As for the Corey situation, he apparently called the 10 Ball and missed. Time to sit down. Again, players that prefer 10 Ball don't feel that a player that missed the shot he was intending (a carom on the 10 ball) should luck into keeping his turn at the table after missing the intended shot. Now, if he had called the 2 Ball cross side and both the two and the ten went in, the 10 would spot (since it is the money ball and he didn't call it) but he would keep his turn at the table because he made the called shot.

9 Ball is still alive and well if you don't like the rules of 10 Ball. I'm just making the point that 10 Ball is not 9 Ball with one more ball. It is a different game. Play the one you like better.
 
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DogsPlayingPool said:
According the the World Standardized Rules (WPA) the incoming player has the option to pass the table back on a miss if a called ball is pocketed in a wrong pocket or another ball falls. On a simple miss where no ball goes down the incoming player must take the balls in position. At the SBE I believe they have the additional rule that the incoming player has the option to give the table back on ANY miss (in other words, even if no ball falls). At least this is the way it was played last year. So there is a reason to call a safety in 10 Ball, especially under the SBE rules.

The idea is to force the player to commit to either making the shot he's intending or to commit to playing safe. And it eliminates the shooter from being rewarded (or the incoming player from being penalized) on a shooters mistake, like when he misses and gets a good roll and hooks his opponent. The rule does take the 2 way shot out of the game.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

They are thankfully not playing by that rull this year, where any miss can be given back. They have been playing where if you call safe and you make a ball, then the incoming player can pass back. Not on a miss on a regular shot.
 
Joe_Jaguar said:
They are thankfully not playing by that rull this year, where any miss can be given back. They have been playing where if you call safe and you make a ball, then the incoming player can pass back. Not on a miss on a regular shot.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying that. I've watched some of the stream but never saw a situation come up that would have defined that for me this year, that's why I qualified my answer about the rule for this year. So I guess they are playing the SBE by World Rules this year. This still allows for some ability to play the 2 way shot (called shot / safety).
 
gordml said:
Then why would you ever call "safe" ???
Click to expand...

Because if a ball goes in somewhere that you were not intending, you may have to shoot again and be hooked if you didn't call a safety.

Really, the only thing the option on a safety when a ball goes in does is prevent the player from being able to sink a duck, like if a ball is hanging in a pocket that you don't want to leave for your opponent so you call a safe and sink that ball.

Now that I re-read Joe's post, he didn't really address whether they were playing by the rule that the incoming player has the option on a miss when no ball goes down, I believe that's hoe they play the SBE. But even in regular ten ball you more or less need to commit to either a shot or a safety, except that in regular 10 Ball you still can play the two way shot of a call shot/safety. But if you miss and successfully hook your opponent, you better hope nothing went in.

Let me give an example of something that may come up. Say you are left with a kick shot and there is another ball hanging in the pocket near the ball you need to kick at. You may want to call that ball just in case it goes in. But you have to weigh that against calling it and having it not go in and being left hooked again when your opponent exercises his option. In many cases like this the player will indeed call something since the worst case would be that he would be left with what he's already facing, a kick shot. But the reward is if the ball does go in he stays at the table.

Now let's say you are left with a very difficult shot, or a fairly hard shot and no real way to get on the next ball if you make it. You may want to call a safety, hoping to get BIH and make it easier to deal with getting on the next ball. You can also call the shot but if you miss you may have to shoot again and face being hooked. It would probably be better to call the safety since you have a decent safety in front of you and if you call something you could face the worse situation of being hooked, or not having as a good a safety opportunity as you have right now. Again, you have to weigh your options and percentages and decide what to do. But the point is, there is a reason to call a safety even in standard 1o Ball rules, and even more so under the SBE rules.

If you're still not sure about this, maybe you can lay out a specific situation and I'll try to address it.
 
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