League: Play to keep rating low or go all out every game?
- Thread starter azbluemach1
- Start date
Sam you were out of line and YOU look like the fool at the moment.
Bagging is a huge problem in leagues for more than the obvious reasons. I was on a team with a woman who was a 4 who won a little over half the time. She was not hiding anything and we almost qualified for Vegas. The next year on a different team, they made it to the show. She played the best two days of pool in her life and was kicked out of the tourney along with her team and got a two year (i think 2) ban from apa play. She's not a bagger, she just caught fire and was penalized to the fullest extent of the law. The apa was so (angry at/scared of) baggers they took it out on her. I feel bad for her because if she plays after the ban she will be a weak 5, probably forever.
I used to hide my speed but I'm too old for that stuff now. This will be my last session due to everyone being raised enough that we can't field a team of friends anymore. Oh well, it's acs only from now on and that's fine.
Bagging is a huge problem in leagues for more than the obvious reasons. I was on a team with a woman who was a 4 who won a little over half the time. She was not hiding anything and we almost qualified for Vegas. The next year on a different team, they made it to the show. She played the best two days of pool in her life and was kicked out of the tourney along with her team and got a two year (i think 2) ban from apa play. She's not a bagger, she just caught fire and was penalized to the fullest extent of the law. The apa was so (angry at/scared of) baggers they took it out on her. I feel bad for her because if she plays after the ban she will be a weak 5, probably forever.
I used to hide my speed but I'm too old for that stuff now. This will be my last session due to everyone being raised enough that we can't field a team of friends anymore. Oh well, it's acs only from now on and that's fine.
There's no point to sandbag.
I also involve in APA. This past summer I joined a new team because we only had high ranked players in my regular team. Played there for one week and left. The captain told me they sandbag to qualify for Vegas. He went, "everyone does this, so we do it too." He put a SL5 against a SL4 (the SL5 can easily compete even at 7). The match went on, and the SL5 now needed one point to win the match. His opponent scratched, and he intentionally missed the ball in hand. The opponent's team knew exactly what was going on. I stood up and said, "if you want to sandbag, at least do it smart." I disassembled my cues and walked away.
I also involve in APA. This past summer I joined a new team because we only had high ranked players in my regular team. Played there for one week and left. The captain told me they sandbag to qualify for Vegas. He went, "everyone does this, so we do it too." He put a SL5 against a SL4 (the SL5 can easily compete even at 7). The match went on, and the SL5 now needed one point to win the match. His opponent scratched, and he intentionally missed the ball in hand. The opponent's team knew exactly what was going on. I stood up and said, "if you want to sandbag, at least do it smart." I disassembled my cues and walked away.
chevybob hit the nail on the head. It's much better to crush everyone because that's what you've practiced than to squeak by unnoticed and do it by the skin of your teeth. Your game will improve that way and you'll push yourself to do stuff you previously would never even see.
can't lose if you always win.
I didn't get here by sandbagging:
Season High Points
1 ROUTLEDGE, James 880
2 Piche, Chris 830
3 Bradko, Dean 814
4 Johannesson, Clinton 805
5 Turner, Bryan 792
6 Maurer, Kris 777
7 Hardin, Dennis 766
8 Parsons, Dave 760
9 Lee, Jonathan 754
10 Strickland, Rick 743
I didn't get here by sandbagging:
Season High Points
1 ROUTLEDGE, James 880
2 Piche, Chris 830
3 Bradko, Dean 814
4 Johannesson, Clinton 805
5 Turner, Bryan 792
6 Maurer, Kris 777
7 Hardin, Dennis 766
8 Parsons, Dave 760
9 Lee, Jonathan 754
10 Strickland, Rick 743
I hadn't thought of that when I voted. I guess I'm either nieve or don't care what others think of me.
azbluemach1
Member
Sam - I am the one who said that.
WHat percentage of players are "Managing their rating" then?
azbluemach1
Member
So, James, lets say there is another player of equal skill and he managed to coast through as a 4 or 5. Your going to "CRUSH" him at the tournament right? Giving up 2-3 games?
If so, you are sandbagging.
IF not, you are getting cheated.
If so, you are sandbagging.
IF not, you are getting cheated.
azbluemach1
Member
I wanted this poll to be anonymous - my bad, I blew it.
I used vBulletin for years and years and I never realized I could click on the numbers in the pool to see who voted that option till after reading this thread...
I may or may not beat him, however I will be able to sleep at night knowing I gave my best.
In the end I look at pool the same way I look at golf. The only person I have to outshine is myself.
Now that've pointed it out, I'm in the know, too...
Funny. You really can learn something new every day.
I play tap and apa and believe that all to often what is considered sandbagging is often lazy and inattentive scorekeeping. I played a match last week against a low hc player and sold out with a freek scratch on the 8 ball i made due to a miscue. during the rest of the match i played about 15 safes as the other player was on the hill. The next week my skill level was dropped even though i have only lost one match and won this one. I asked the scorekeeper for that match how many safes they had for me and was told one. I called all the safes but at least 14 were marked as missed shots. I told the league manager and played this week at my proper skill level.
Add myself. I rarely play true speed in 8 ball except on an out run.
I play smart, play defense, hang back and when the opportunities are there, I'm out. 8-ball for example, is not about dropping balls on every shot, its about playing smarter than your opponent. It is pointless to drop balls, if there are no real out opportunities at the table. If that is the case, I'm coasting by opening up shots instead of dropping balls.
I avoid one-ball-hell (a term from The 8-Ball Bible) by not giving my opponent a table without obsticals and opportunities to defend me, if needed. Knowing that, I intentionally try to reverse this role. You can win ever single game, but your opponent still thinks they had a legitimate chance. They do, but would have to break open the table on their way out.
Dude this is legitimate play not sandbagging. You're playing to win, not playing to influence handicaps for an advantage.
Huge difference.
There is a difference between playing a defensive game and being a sandbagger.
Playing a defensive game is smart (or can be) but isn't cheating. As long as whoever is keeping score is doing so correctly, it is truly a part of the game.
Sandbagging is intentionally losing or inflating your innings count (or other handicap determining criteria) to give you an advantage.
I figured it was both. I am intentionally inflating my innings to win. The results seem mostly the same because many opponents don't mark defense correctly.
You are correct, that defensive shots aren't marked correctly far too often.
I think you'll find that most people here will define sandbagging as trying to keep your handicap lower than it should be, by intentionally losing, or by missing shots intentionally in order to pad your inning count. I also think that most everyone here will say that making a good defensive shot, for the sake of making a good defensive shot (meaning to leave your opponent in a bad position to shoot from) is just playing good pool.