Opinions on Pool School

Lou...I think it depends more on how the information is presented. The way our schools work, the information is presented in an accurate, easy to understand (and immediately taken to the table), and in an ordered fashion, so that it can be absorbed. That said, no student can be expected to remember much...even a day later...without some way to review. Our schools provide the student with not only an outstanding learning experience, but also an extensive workbook, and a method to the followup practice...which should last anywhere from 3 weeks to 2 months (or more) depending on the student, and their availability to practice. Several hours a day is unproductive, unless you are talking about practicing playing. Serious disciplined practice, with achievable goals and measurable results, can only be done effectively for short periods. We recommend our students practice their individual regimens no more than two hours per day. It is always preferred that the student finishes the practice session, with a session of playing...since that's where we get our enjoyment and endorphins from. I can tell you from experience that it isn't just beginners that benefit from pool school. We recently had a two-time national champion go through our 3 day school. His comment at the end of the 3rd day: "Wow! This is EXACTLY what I needed." IMO, followup is needed, to ensure that the student is following their process correctly. I agree that your idea of a lesson a week, over a few weeks, can also help a student improve. That said, "total immersion" learning has been done successfully, for decades, in all sports.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

lfigueroa said:
I think there is an issue with three days of intense instruction. Namely that it is almost impossible for the student to absorb, digest and usefully put into practice all that info. OTOH, maybe as a beginning player it's good to get an overview and three days is a good thing. I do think one key element is that if you choose to do the pool school thing you do it at a time in your schedule when you can immediately thereafter spend several hours a day, for several days, practicing and implementing what you've learned before it slips away. Just looking back on my personal experience and how I might have liked to learned, I think a session with a coach/instructor once a week for three weeks, with regular practice in between, would be the way I'd go. Then follow up sessions every six months where you check your progress and then build upon what you've accomplished.

Lou Figueroa
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Williebetmore said:
While I am a fervent proponent of pool instruction; I am struck by the superficiality of the discussion so far.

Pool instruction is unquestionably of value; and good instruction can dramatically shorten and "ease" the process of becoming proficient (though it will NOT be short and will NOT be easy).

BUT, I hear little discussion from student or instructor about the more important issue of HOW MUCH instruction. While a couple of days at pool school will be great, I do not believe that any player will become a pro with just a single school. I do believe that regular lessons (probably every 2 months or so for 2 or 3 years - with DEDICATED AND FOCUSED practice in between) would be the minimum to get the true benefit of what a good instructor has to offer.

If you really want to become a good player; think hard about a series of lessons over a couple of years.

I would be interested to hear what the instructors have to say about this issue. Too many players on this forum are taking a lesson here or a lesson there and then pontificating on the value of pool instruction. If pool is to flourish, then systematic, longer term instruction will be necessary to increase the meager pool of highly proficient players. JMO.

Pool played well is more fun than pool played poorly. Just a fact Jack.
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Don
No doubt about it.

Most of our students do not aspire to become a "pro" player. They have neither the time nor desire to do so. They would in fact like to continue to grow their personal skill levels.

Our students leave the Master's Pool School with direction.
1. Follow our Home Work instructions.
2. Check in with me in two weeks.
3. Follow up on the "free" refresher.
4. Continue the planned education.

"The Master's Pool School is not a destination to be reached, but the start of a very nice journey."

randyg
 
336Robin said:
I think for a lot of folks a Pool School is a fine thing. They have probably run out of ideas to help their own game and want to try something new. I to think its a bit pricey but sometimes you cant find personal instructors in your area that actually play well enough to be able to spot flaws in your fundamentals. Quite honestly unless you are paying for your instruction sometimes its just hard for people to listen and if youre paying someone with experience well that can add up to a lot of listening and it will help your game.

336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com

http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/ booksite
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Well Robin, as Forest would say:
"pricey is as pricey does."
randyg
 
lfigueroa said:
I think many folks believe getting a lesson is like, I don't know, maybe being knighted or something. IOW, you get the lesson and instantaneously you are a better player. Maybe, at a very low level, this is somewhat true, but the lesson is really more like a local giving a traveler directions to get closer to where they want to go. The lesson does not magically transport you to your final destination. The road must still be traveled, moving one foot in front of the other, sometimes uphill, sometimes through bad weather. But, if you faithfully followed the directions, you do get closer to where you want to go.

I think there is an issue with three days of intense instruction. Namely that it is almost impossible for the student to absorb, digest and usefully put into practice all that info. OTOH, maybe as a beginning player it's good to get an overview and three days is a good thing. I do think one key element is that if you choose to do the pool school thing you do it at a time in your schedule when you can immediately thereafter spend several hours a day, for several days, practicing and implementing what you've learned before it slips away. Just looking back on my personal experience and how I might have liked to learned, I think a session with a coach/instructor once a week for three weeks, with regular practice in between, would be the way I'd go. Then follow up sessions every six months where you check your progress and then build upon what you've accomplished.

Lou Figueroa
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Some where, some how, I know I liked Lou......:-)
randyg
 
Maybe the real proof in the pudding would be if an pool school grad would write their experiences.

Hard to speculate if I'm not actually there.
randyg
 
Scott Lee said:
Lou...I think it depends more on how the information is presented. The way our schools work, the information is presented in an accurate, easy to understand (and immediately taken to the table), and in an ordered fashion, so that it can be absorbed. That said, no student can be expected to remember much...even a day later...without some way to review. Our schools provide the student with not only an outstanding learning experience, but also an extensive workbook, and a method to the followup practice...which should last anywhere from 3 weeks to 2 months (or more) depending on the student, and their availability to practice.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Bingo! I just finished 3 day pool school with Randy G. today. I am totally amazed with the curriculum and how it was presented. Three full days of instruction and I don't feel overwhelmed at all. I know exactly what I need to do in order to make what I learned a habit. I have the school book Scott mentions above at my fingertips and my daily drills written out within. I also have a pool school video produced by Randy and Scott. I am a beginner player and was able to absorb EVERYTHING with ease. I am fortunate to have a table at home and already marked it off so that I can execute my drills just like at school. Randy's methods of teaching are far beyond anything I have experienced in other sports. These guys wrote the book on sports instruction and I own a copy. nuff said.
 
Charlie Fogg...I knew you would love it! :thumbup: Now, comes the real work. Check back with AzB in a month, and let us know how you're progressing! One more thing...something that both Randy and I tell EVERY student, whether in pool school or a private lesson...if you are struggling with something, CALL US! We give every student our personal numbers, because we don't want any student to struggle, after lessons. Like I said earlier...followup is key to the learning process!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Charlie Fogg said:
Bingo! I just finished 3 day pool school with Randy G. today. I am totally amazed with the curriculum and how it was presented. Three full days of instruction and I don't feel overwhelmed at all. I know exactly what I need to do in order to make what I learned a habit. I have the school book Scott mentions above at my fingertips and my daily drills written out within. I also have a pool school video produced by Randy and Scott. I am a beginner player and was able to absorb EVERYTHING with ease. I am fortunate to have a table at home and already marked it off so that I can execute my drills just like at school. Randy's methods of teaching are far beyond anything I have experienced in other sports. These guys wrote the book on sports instruction and I own a copy. nuff said.
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Scott Lee said:
Lou...I think it depends more on how the information is presented. The way our schools work, the information is presented in an accurate, easy to understand (and immediately taken to the table), and in an ordered fashion, so that it can be absorbed. That said, no student can be expected to remember much...even a day later...without some way to review. Our schools provide the student with not only an outstanding learning experience, but also an extensive workbook, and a method to the followup practice...which should last anywhere from 3 weeks to 2 months (or more) depending on the student, and their availability to practice. Several hours a day is unproductive, unless you are talking about practicing playing. Serious disciplined practice, with achievable goals and measurable results, can only be done effectively for short periods. We recommend our students practice their individual regimens no more than two hours per day. It is always preferred that the student finishes the practice session, with a session of playing...since that's where we get our enjoyment and endorphins from. I can tell you from experience that it isn't just beginners that benefit from pool school. We recently had a two-time national champion go through our 3 day school. His comment at the end of the 3rd day: "Wow! This is EXACTLY what I needed." IMO, followup is needed, to ensure that the student is following their process correctly. I agree that your idea of a lesson a week, over a few weeks, can also help a student improve. That said, "total immersion" learning has been done successfully, for decades, in all sports.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott, I have no doubt that your course is well designed, state-of-the-art, and would be of great benefit to many, many players.

My only quibble with what you said is about cutting practice sessions off at the two-hour mark. My personal experience is that, if an individual is able to maintain their focus, pushing through past four hours is when the game opens up and a player can gain big insights. Practicing can become a very meditative experience and if you're working on something, it's just past the four hour mark or so that you can get some "ah ha" moments. YMMV.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Scott, I have no doubt that your course is well designed, state-of-the-art, and would be of great benefit to many, many players.

My only quibble with what you said is about cutting practice sessions off at the two-hour mark. My personal experience is that, if an individual is able to maintain their focus, pushing through past four hours is when the game opens up and a player can gain big insights. Practicing can become a very meditative experience and if you're working on something, it's just past the four hour mark or so that you can get some "ah ha" moments. YMMV.

Lou Figueroa
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As we often repeat, every individual is different. If you have found success with longer practice sessions, more power to you. But you may be one of the exceptions. Our experience has shown that shorter practice sessions generally result in greater focus. I've watched some pro players in extended practice sessions, but their motivation may be a little different from most players....it's their JOB.

Your way is obviously right for you. Very few people have the ability to maintain the kind of focus required for perfect practice for that length of time. The concern is that if the focus waivers, the student will end up practicing poor or sloppy techniques, which can be counter productive.

I always tell my students that as soon as you feel yourself getting tired of practicing, stop immediately! A good practice session is one that you leave while wanting more. That will make you look forward to your next practice session, and not dreading it.

Steve
 
One other thing Steve...I think you have to define the difference between disciplined practice, and practicing playing. They are distinctly different. You can practice playing 24/7. Most people can only do focused, disciplined practice for a few minutes at a time, before they become distracted, bored, frustrated or fatigued. This is, of course, why our dedicated practice regimen includes short duration, high intensity focus exercises, that have achievable goals and measurable results for the individual.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

pooltchr said:
As we often repeat, every individual is different. If you have found success with longer practice sessions, more power to you. But you may be one of the exceptions. Our experience has shown that shorter practice sessions generally result in greater focus. I've watched some pro players in extended practice sessions, but their motivation may be a little different from most players....it's their JOB.

Your way is obviously right for you. Very few people have the ability to maintain the kind of focus required for perfect practice for that length of time. The concern is that if the focus waivers, the student will end up practicing poor or sloppy techniques, which can be counter productive.

I always tell my students that as soon as you feel yourself getting tired of practicing, stop immediately! A good practice session is one that you leave while wanting more. That will make you look forward to your next practice session, and not dreading it.

Steve
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Lou...I think it depends more on how the information is presented. The way our schools work, the information is presented in an accurate, easy to understand (and immediately taken to the table), and in an ordered fashion, so that it can be absorbed. That said, no student can be expected to remember much...even a day later...without some way to review. Our schools provide the student with not only an outstanding learning experience, but also an extensive workbook, and a method to the followup practice...which should last anywhere from 3 weeks to 2 months (or more) depending on the student, and their availability to practice. Several hours a day is unproductive, unless you are talking about practicing playing. Serious disciplined practice, with achievable goals and measurable results, can only be done effectively for short periods. We recommend our students practice their individual regimens no more than two hours per day. It is always preferred that the student finishes the practice session, with a session of playing...since that's where we get our enjoyment and endorphins from. I can tell you from experience that it isn't just beginners that benefit from pool school. We recently had a two-time national champion go through our 3 day school. His comment at the end of the 3rd day: "Wow! This is EXACTLY what I needed." IMO, followup is needed, to ensure that the student is following their process correctly. I agree that your idea of a lesson a week, over a few weeks, can also help a student improve. That said, "total immersion" learning has been done successfully, for decades, in all sports.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott,
I can only speak from my own experience. If you remember I did Pool School and about a year later an individual 3 hour lesson with you in my basement. Neither one would have been as effective without the other one. I didn't really start playing until I was 54 (I'm 65 now); I've read a ton of books and watched countless videos and they ALL helped, but the thing that most improved my game without question was the combination of Pool School and the individual lesson. I still do some of the "mother drills" several times a week.
My suggestion to anybody looking for the right formula is the "total immersion" method (pool school) followed by about a year of exercising it and then a review private lesson.
Steve.
 
Gazelli said:
I'm a brand new player. I had a lesson with Scott Lee last Friday. I firmly believe that the time spent with Scott (Neil was there also and had a lot of great suggestions), was a good idea. I'm sure I could have discovered a fair number of the things Scott showed me over the course of time(months, years?) But within a single afternoon he was able to show me a fundamentally sound process, customized for me, that I can use to build upon.

Reading books, watching DVDs, listening to friends advice, great. Spending the time and money to have a professional spend time with you to show you a proven method customized to fit you, priceless!
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Come back to this thread in a few months and tell us what's happening with your game in comparison to your friends who didn't get lessons.

I've had two lessons with Scott (and several others) over the past few years and would highly recommend him for anyone who wants to get better faster easier.

I don't even remember the amount of money I spent, but I do know how to play much better and I do remember all the great Persons I met along the way.

Jeff Livingston
 
Well I talked to him last night and he thought the school was worth every penny. He did say by the middle of the second day he was a little skeptical but after that it all started to come together.
 
Like so many things in life you get out what you put in and any lessons are better than no lessons. It's far easier to learn the right things first than to unlearn the wrong things and start over. I participated in Randy's pool school for the specific reason of learning better fundamentals and I got exactly that. If a person can pick up just one or two things from a lesson that helps their game then the instructor has done a good job IMO...
 
Quesports said:
If a person can pick up just one or two things from a lesson that helps their game then the instructor has done a good job IMO...
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I suspect you picked up far more than one or two things during your time in Randy's class.

Steve
 
I attended the pool school in LV about a month ago with Randy G. and Scott Lee.

It was a true learning experience and money well spent.

I am a low intermediate (APA 4 in both 8 ball and 9 ball).

Since I came back from LV I did 2 break and runs in 8 ball and beat another SL 4 in 9 ball 20-0 (point count 31-5).

I have never before had a B&R in 8 ball and I have been told that many long time APA players have never had a 20-0 win in 9 ball.

As you can see I am extremely happy with the progress in my game and I owe it all to Randy and Scott!!!
 
The important question was asked by the OP.:thumbup:

In keeping with the naturally negative nature of many posters on AZB, and the outrageous expense of pool school, you all can appreciate why the unhappy students, given this opportunity, have been expressing their displeasure with their experience. They are so numerous that it is virtually impossible to find anyone who has anything good to say about RandyG, Scott Lee, Neil, and others of their ilk.

These 'teachers' should do penance:

On their knees
Begging foregiveness
Offering full refunds, plus interest, plus travel expenses
Promising to go and sin no more
And to find productive and socially useful employment

:D :wink: :grin-square: :p :) : :grin-loving: :grin-angelic: :rotflmao1: :clapping:
 
I have sinned, and come short of the glory of Scaramouche!

OH, NO!!!!!!

:D:D:D

Steve
 
As a past attendee of pool school I can give you my take on it.
What pool school WON'T do for you....give you "the secrets of the pros I have heard some talk about so you play like GOD after hearing these secrets, give you super powers where you will make every shot, give you the ability to beat much better players as soon as you leave....or any other outlandish stuff.
What pool school WILL do for you is...it will examine you stroke, stance, grip and several other things...if you have some issues, it will give you the solution to correct the problems, it will give you some excellent drills that will improve your accuracy in several different ways, it will give you video analysis so you can see what you are doing really well, and not so well, it will give you a solid foundation with which to build on, it will give you some things to do that can actually be measured (we aren't talking about throwing balls on a table and beating em around as measurable).Once you are given all this information, it is up to you to take it and put it into practice. It takes some work and dedication. If like me, you have developed some bad habits over the years, they don't go away overnight that is for sure.
I hear folks talking about the cost. It isn't cheap, but I don't consider it expensive either. I felt it was worth what I paid, so in my mind, it was priced right.
My experience was very positive. I had no idea what to expect, and ended up having a heck of a lot of fun. Actually I had so much fun I wanted to go back for the mother of all classes, but haven't been able to do so due to my work schedule. It's on my "to do" list this year if I can get away from work long enough....if not hopefully next year.
 
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