Question for "Pivot" aimers

For "pivot" aimers, please choose one about final shot line

  • I perceive the final shot line BEFORE placing my bridge

    Votes: 13 46.4%

  • I place my bridge BEFORE perceiving the final shot line

    Votes: 15 53.6%
  • Total voters
    28
mikepage

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm directing this question to anyone who self identifies as a "pivot" aimer, whether it's CTE, or PRO ONE, or your own modification of these you use.

Please follow carefully.

When you are DONE, i.e., ready to pull the trigger with the tip at center cueball, the following FOUR things are in the same plane:

(1) cueball center
(2) ghostball center
(3) center of sight
(4) bridge hand (meaning the stick where it touches your bridge)

right?

Now, only three of those are necessary to define the shot plane, and (1) and (2) you have no control over.

So the question is this. Which, of (3) and (4) gets there first?

If (3), then, I perceive the final shot line BEFORE placing my bridge

If (4) then, I place my bridge BEFORE perceiving the final shot line
 
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Good question, interesting. I'm still somewhat new to this, but if I think about it for me at least the two happen almost seamlessly. However, since I'm currently more comfortable pivoting using Pro One (in the air, as it were), I pick up the visual alignment, and as I'm pivoting into the shot line I'm also dropping down into my stance. I would say I pick up the intended shot line just before my bridge hits the table, but as I said they happen close together.

As I think about it, this is similar to "normal" shooting, as I've done for the last 20 years. You stand behind the shot and perceive the ghost ball or whatever method you use, and as your brain locks into the perceived line your body and bridge align themselves to enable you to shoot down that line. I think the gap in timing between the visualization and the placement of the bridge hand is slightly longer with non-pivot shooting but it's similar.

Now for mechanical or manual pivoters, I would think that it's possible that the bridge is placed along a visual line or plane where the extension of the cue is NOT on the ultimate shot line (although the bridge hand typically is), then as the stick is pivoted you are picking up the true aligment where the CB, GB, bridge, visual line, and extension of the cue are on the same line.

Also amazing how infrequently, especially for good shooters, that your bridge hand ever needs adjusting to make the shot, regardless of the method used. Crazy how effective your eyes and brain are at taking in input and placing everything in the right place to make the shot. Things I try NOT to think about when shooting... :)

Scott
 
Aiming • Alignment • Pre-shot routine.

mikepage said:
I'm directing this question to anyone who self identifies as a "pivot" aimer, whether it's CTE, or PRO ONE, or your own modification of these you use.

Please follow carefully.

When you are DONE, i.e., ready to pull the trigger with the tip at center cueball, the following FOUR things are in the same plane:

(1) cueball center
(2) ghostball center
(3) bridge hand (meaning the stick where it touches your bridge)
(4) center of sight

right?

Now, only three of those are necessary to define the shot plane, and (1) and (2) you have no control over.

So the question is this. Which, of (3) and (4) gets there first?

If (3), then, I perceive the final shot line BEFORE placing my bridge

If (4) then, I place my bridge BEFORE perceiving the final shot line
Click to expand...

This sounds like a trick question but I will bite and guess 3. I look at the CTEL and AIM the Edge of Cue ball to correct aim point while simultaneously holding onto the CTEL. Then I decide which side of the CTEL I am going to pivot from, then and only then do I place my bridge hand to the table. Most of my aiming is done standing up. Whether I manually pivot or estimate the bridge hand placement (air pivot.. although i never liked that word) doesn't seem to make much difference to me.

Personally, I think that CTE/Pro One will eventually become the aiming system of choice for all competent instructors. CTE/Pro One is also an alignment system and reported to be an entire pre-shot routine by some people. So a tool like this does FAR more than anything else that is out there.

Stan Shuffett's video on CTE/Pro One is taking it across the globe with professional players from all over the world using it and having success with it.

Isn't it about time that the Naysayers just say that CTE/Pro One is the greatest thing to happen to pocket billiards in this millenium? :D:D

I know the Naysayers are hanging on by a thread and recent comments by them are seen as a softening of their position. Isn't it time for the Naysayers to don their own CTE/ Pro One hat and signature ring? I want to see some camaraderie around here with everyone singing Kumbaya.

This is serious now. The Naysayers aren't stupid. They aren't incapable of playing decent pool. Why is it that they have been incapable or unwilling to perform equally as well with CTE/Pro One as they are with their preferred aiming system? The Naysayers seem to be the ones who have the most questions but seem to be unable to use it effectively or unwilling to put in the time and effort to become proficient with CTE/Pro One.

It stands to reason that if a Naysayer becomes proficient with using CTE/Pro One, they would then be able to provide us with the answers to all of their questions. I know that other professional players have used CTE/Pro One and been successful with it, so it's not like it doesn't work or that it doesn't work well. It works EXTREMELY well.

Hope I've been of help in answering your question, Mike. Could you help with answering some of mine?

Thanks,
JoeyA
 
i answered that i place my bridge after perceiving the shot, but i often make adjustments depending on a few variables.

i use a standard shaft (lucasi cue). I'm curious about how using a predator 314 would change the way i use BHE
 
My bad onthe check off ballot box vote... It should be there now.

mikepage said:
OK, but it looks like you haven't voted yet.

[...]


Well I hope to not sidetrack this too much, but ... fire away
Click to expand...

My questions are in the post you responded to.
Thanks,
JoeyA
 
i say 3 is pro1 and 4 is 90/90 and manual cte. I use pro1 and manual cte and have used 90/90 in the past, is that good or you want more detail?
 
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By far the best post and poll since a long time :p
I m seeing some guys sitting in front of the computer and thinking......hm, how do i?... and when...?

LoL

sry, couldn t resist :)

Ingo
 
JoeyA said:
I know the Naysayers are hanging on by a thread and recent comments by them are seen as a softening of their position.
Click to expand...
Not sure about "softening" the position, but maybe you're finally starting to understand the position.
 
I voted number 4.Having to many things going on while your aiming is over doing it.But if what ever you do works,do it.
 
champ2107 said:
i say 3 is pro1 and 4 is 90/90 and manual cte. I use pro1 and manual cte and have used 90/90 in the past, is that good or you want more detail?
Click to expand...

I believe you are right for 90/90 or at least as far as I can tell. I use 90/90 or something very similar occasionally and feel like option (4) is correct.

Someday I will have time to watch the Pro 1 DVD. I have had it for quite a while but have not had time to watch it and, unfortunately, will not have time this weekend either.
 
JoeyA said:
[...]
I know the Naysayers are hanging on by a thread and recent comments by them are seen as a softening of their position. [...]
Click to expand...

Are you talking about ME Joey? Am I one of your naysayers?

If so, how do you see my position as having evolved?
 
mikepage said:
Are you talking about ME Joey? Am I one of your naysayers?

If so, how do you see my position as having evolved?
Click to expand...

can i ask you in this thread what your position is on cte/pro1 and i think we can keep this civil as long Patrick Johnson doesn't get involved with his disrespectful comments.
 
champ2107 said:
can i ask you in this thread what your position is on cte/pro1 and i think we can keep this civil as long Patrick Johnson doesn't get involved with his disrespectful comments.
Click to expand...

I don't really have a "position." You'll have to be more specific with your questions.
 
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