using the correct sealer with the water based finishes

Dave38

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
How many people actually use the recomended sanding sealers with the finish they use? I was looking to buy a quart of the Enduro Precat finish, and after reading it, it states " must be used with the precat sanding sealer, not to be used with any other sealer" (another $25-$30). The salesman then recomended the crosslinker($30 more). I bought it all, $120 or so later....and now wonder how important is it really to use all the recomended items? I understand the purpose of the crosslinker and have no issue using it, mainly wondering about the various sealers. I have tried a few water borne finishes and bought the appropriate sealers to go with them, many quarts later, and not so happy results, I wonder if I can use the sealers with other finishes and have it work out well.
Also, does anyone know what Cue Components uses for their "brand" of water borne finish? I have almost 2 quarts of sealer(they accidently sent me one with an order 3 or so years ago) that goes with it and wonder if it may be the Enduro brand....? and therfore may be used with the finish I just bought? Pm's on this last question would be fine;)
Thanks,
Dave
 
Enduro Pre-Cat

It may be something unique to the Pre-Cat topcoat. I use the Enduro Clear Poly. They do say to avoid using oil base stains under it, but they don't have a cautionary statement about the sanding sealer like on the Pre-Cat. I'd contact Jeff Jewitt at Homestead Finishing Products. They sell the Enduro line of products and Jeff is very knowledgeable. Use the "Ask a Technical Question" link on this page.

http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/Orderinfo.htm

I was curious about the Cue Components product at one time and Dick Neighbors sent me this:

The stuff is Van Aqua 485 gloss from Van Technologies. Their web-site is:

http://www.vtcoatings.com/

I just use it for a sealer but it is actually a finish and there are cue makers who use it for a finish. It is a high solids finish with no shelf life. If it starts to get to thick you just cut with plain water. Go to their site, get a number and give them a call and ask for a technician. Woody Woodworth turned me onto it and I believe he uses it for a finish.

Dick
 
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I just checked it out.

JoeyInCali said:
BTW, Bill, did you see this?
http://www.greenlightcoatings.com/wood_coatings.html
Click to expand...

I compared the products on the Greenlight site with the VTCoatings site and they appear to be the same thing. The only product that I would consider trying is the non-yellowing aliphatic urethane topcoat. One the VTCoatings site, they call it VanAqua-485. On the Greenlight site, they call it GL-4850. Different names, but the descriptions are "word-for-word" the same on both sites. It sounds interesting, but I could not find any data on solids content. One of the things I like best about Enduro Clear Poly is that it "builds" fast due to it's high solids content.

There is one difference I noticed from the Enduro Clear Poly that I use. Enduro Clear Poly is described as a polyurethane, where the Van Technoligies and Greenlight product is described as an aliphatic urethane. Maybe someone out there can explain the difference in layman's terms.
 
Bill the Cat said:
aliphatic urethane. Maybe someone out there can explain the difference in layman's terms.
Click to expand...

In chemistry aliphatic is non aromatic by definition. Low odor and typically water based or oil modified water based when talking about finishes and sealers. Used heavily by flooring manufacturers who produce pre-finished products.
 
Need more

ChampionsRepair said:
In chemistry aliphatic is non aromatic by definition. Low odor and typically water based or oil modified water based when talking about finishes and sealers. Used heavily by flooring manufacturers who produce pre-finished products.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your input, but I found that info in my web searches and it left me a little cold. What I was looking for are the implications of the two designations in the context of finishes. For example, would there be significant differences between products that are described as "Polyurethane" versus "Aliphatic Urethane"?
 
Bill the Cat said:
What I was looking for are the implications of the two designations in the context of finishes. For example, would there be significant differences between products that are described as "Polyurethane" versus "Aliphatic Urethane"?
Click to expand...

They are not mutually exclusive as you can have an Aliphatic Polyurethane. In each type of product linked above, Urethane is the binder for the acrylic solids and they are both waterborne/water based finishes. To answer your question, No, in this case there is no significant difference based on the manufacturer's descriptions.
 
I see said the blind man.

ChampionsRepair said:
They are not mutually exclusive as you can have an Aliphatic Polyurethane. In each type of product linked above, Urethane is the binder for the acrylic solids and they are both waterborne/water based finishes. To answer your question, No, in this case there is no significant difference based on the manufacturer's descriptions.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification!
 
Thanks for the input and discussion guys. I'm hoping to have some time this week or weekend to play with the enduro sealer/finish and see how it goes. I would like to just use the recomended sealer but does anyone know how well they stick to metal rings and plastics/phenolics? The salesman at woodcraft couldn't answer that for me the other day.
Thanks for the PMs also.
Thanks,
Dave
 
Dave38 said:
Thanks for the input and discussion guys. I'm hoping to have some time this week or weekend to play with the enduro sealer/finish and see how it goes. I would like to just use the recomended sealer but does anyone know how well they stick to metal rings and plastics/phenolics? The salesman at woodcraft couldn't answer that for me the other day.
Thanks for the PMs also.
Thanks,
Dave
Click to expand...

They don't stick to metal.
 
I seal my cues with thin epoxy (Bob Smith from Prathers) and top coats with Enduro Poly. I have 15 years experience with Enduro and my problem with water finishes is that too many coats tend to turn milky (hazy). Eliminating the sealer coat of water based and using epoxy has created great results. The original manufacturer of Enduro once told me it is o.k. to put water over nitro cellulose products but not the opposite.
 
General Finishes makes the products you are discussing . Contact them as the owner invented the water base products they sell and will give you his advice on their use . I use their products as specified and get great results . I sometimes seal with CA and then apply water base , especially around black linen , or ebony and oily cocobolo . Helps keep ring work clean .Good luck ...:cool:;)
 
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