Kaisa - Finland's national billiards game

[Rethunk]

Kaisa (or karoliina) combines the big pockets of a Russian Pyramid table, the simple rules of Cowboy, and same easy runouts as Snooker. Any one of these games would be too easy for a Finn, so why not combine all three games into one billiards slugfest?

Do you have to endure eleven-month winters to create a brutal game like this? Are pockets more than a few millimeters larger than the balls considered buckets?

Here's a video of a game of kaisa. The title of the video is "Antti Saari turnaus 2009 Hyvinkää," which I assume translates to something like "Anti-Sanity Tournament 2009 with Railbirds."
http://kaisa.blip.tv/file/3032473/

The video is linked from the short entry for kaisa at Wikipedia. By my count, there are 25 different scoring possibilities, including a 12-point cross-side shot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaisa_(billiards)

Here's a video in which a Finnish player describes the game and the 500-player league:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOuSditdom4

User "J.S." mentions kaisa in Scaramouche's thread about English billiards:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=198391&highlight=kaisa

Can any Finns out there provide a bit more detail about kaisa or make any corrections? Was this game invented to test one's stamina and/or sanity and/or Finnishness?

 

[Vahmurka]

Kaisa is a great game of skill, and it is better than Russin Pyramid in terms of equipment. It uses balls which weigh less than Pyramid balls, yet they remain heavier than pool balls. That allows better cue ball control, which this game is about. No ball-offs (caroms to the pocket) in this game as opposed to Pyramid, but Kaisa is very demanding tactically. Antti Saari must be a player's name rather than what you kiddingly suggested, another player I know of is Petri Pohjola.

 

[sfleinen]

Kaisa is a great game of skill, and it is better than Russin Pyramid in terms of equipment. It uses balls which weigh less than Pyramid balls, yet they remain heavier than pool balls. That allows better cue ball control, which this game is about. No ball-offs (caroms to the pocket) in this game as opposed to Pyramid, but Kaisa is very demanding tactically. Antti Saari must be a player's name rather than what you kiddingly suggested, another player I know of is Petri Pohjola.

Vahmurka:

With all this talk of things "Finnish," I'm reminded of the Russian comedy, "Peculiarities of the National Hunt":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peculiarities_of_the_National_Hunt

Hilarious movie! Mika would fit right in as a humor-neutered version of "The Finn".

-Sean

 

[Vahmurka]

With all this talk of things "Finnish," I'm reminded of the Russian comedy, "Peculiarities of the National Hunt"

wow Sean, did you watch it? I have never heard it was shown internationally! First one you mention is hilarious, I agree, and I love the sequel, "Peculiarities of the National Fishing" (didn't check if there is another Wiki article)

 

[sfleinen]

wow Sean, did you watch it? I have never heard it was shown internationally! First one you mention is hilarious, I agree, and I love the sequel, "Peculiarities of the National Fishing" (didn't check if there is another Wiki article)

Vahmurka:

Yep, I sure did watch it -- several times! Although there are a couple Russian channels on the cable TV networks here, I watched it via DVD instead -- I have the DVD (my ex left it behind). And yes, I have the sequel as well. My favorite character has to be the General.

Sort of back on topic with the thread, when the OP asks, "Any one of these games ... too easy for a Finn; Can any Finns out there provide... ...Finnishness?", I'm reminded of certain hilarious scenes in both of these comedies.

-Sean

P.S.:
"Кто Фин?"
"Я!"

 

[JarnoV]

I'm a Finn, but my experience in Kaisa is pretty thin. However, it's a fascinating game and I've managed to play it couple of times lately.

Playing Kaisa for the first time is a strange experience as it seems like making balls is almost impossible. For example, the opening shot is from the box and you try to pot the Kaisa ball (the yellow ball) which is on the center spot into either corner pocket, which genuinely seems like an impossible task. If you can make that shot with consistency, I cannot understand how you could miss any shot on a pool table ever. But strangely enough, you do adjust to the pocket size and will start making balls.

Obviously the potting percentages aren't as high as they are on a pool table and the way you move the cue ball is somewhat different. However, you do get extra points for caroms of the cue ball and therefore you need to be able to control the cue ball too. You do play for position too, but I think the position play in general is somewhat simpler than in pool.

Not many pool halls have Kaisa tables anymore so it takes a bit of effort to get a match going. But if you ever happen to visit Finland, definitely hook up with someone who knows Kaisa and have a go at it. It's a fun experience.

Billiard Traveler has a nice trip report of Finland/Helsinki, which has a lot of discussion about Kaisa.

Are pockets more than a few millimeters larger than the balls considered buckets?

Yeah. The first time I played Kaisa was on a table that I later heard had "buckets". It didn't seem like that to me though.

 

[Bobby]

I'm a Finn, but my experience in Kaisa is pretty thin. However, it's a fascinating game and I've managed to play it couple of times lately.

Playing Kaisa for the first time is a strange experience as it seems like making balls is almost impossible. For example, the opening shot is from the box and you try to pot the Kaisa ball (the yellow ball) which is on the center spot into either corner pocket, which genuinely seems like an impossible task. If you can make that shot with consistency, I cannot understand how you could miss any shot on a pool table ever. But strangely enough, you do adjust to the pocket size and will start making balls.

Obviously the potting percentages aren't as high as they are on a pool table and the way you move the cue ball is somewhat different. However, you do get extra points for caroms of the cue ball and therefore you need to be able to control the cue ball too. You do play for position too, but I think the position play in general is somewhat simpler than in pool.

Not many pool halls have Kaisa tables anymore so it takes a bit of effort to get a match going. But if you ever happen to visit Finland, definitely hook up with someone who knows Kaisa and have a go at it. It's a fun experience.

Billiard Traveler has a nice trip report of Finland/Helsinki, which has a lot of discussion about Kaisa.



Yeah. The first time I played Kaisa was on a table that I later heard had "buckets". It didn't seem like that to me though.

Is there or has there ever been a national championship in Kaisa?

I remember first hearing about Kaisa in the late 1990's when Mika first came to the states. There was an article in a pool magazine about Mika and he mentioned playing the game (I'm not sure how much he actually played it, he may have been exxagerating a bit), but their was a photo of the table with a close up of a ball in the jaws of the pocket and I was stunned! There was just a slight space on each side of the ball. If I had access to such a table I'd regularly practice shots on it just to improve my pool shotmaking.

 

[Rethunk]

I'm a Finn, but my experience in Kaisa is pretty thin.

But your experience is infinitely greater than mine and most of ours. Thanks for all the info. (Thanks to the other folks who replied, too.)

Are there instructional books? Videos?

Not many pool halls have Kaisa tables anymore so it takes a bit of effort to get a match going. But if you ever happen to visit Finland, definitely hook up with someone who knows Kaisa and have a go at it. It's a fun experience.

Any idea how many Kaisa tables there may be? Or where the best players play?

Billiard Traveler has a nice trip report of Finland/Helsinki, which has a lot of discussion about Kaisa.

Aha! He's the one who posted the video interview I watched, the one with the player named Kani.

 

[JarnoV]

Are there instructional books? Videos?

Not to my knowledge, but that's not to say there aren't.

In previous years there has been (and I hope there will be) a livestream of the finals of Finnish championships of several different disciplines, including Kaisa. The finals day is May 28. and the link to the livestream should appear on the web page of national billiard federation. The information will probably not be in English, but you can ask for help on the forum or directly from me if you wish to see the livestream.

Any idea how many Kaisa tables there may be? Or where the best players play?

There are some pool halls that have a Kaisa table or several of them, but there are many private clubs too. Kaisa tournaments are in fact pretty popular. If anyone wants to hook up with the best players, I'm pretty sure it's easy to arrange.

Aha! He's the one who posted the video interview I watched, the one with the player named Kani.

In fact, his name is Jani (Siekkinen). Funny enough, there's a Finnish player whose nickname is "Kani", or "Rabbit" in English: Aki Heiskanen. Aki is an accomplished pool player, but is also a really good Kaisa player.

 

[JarnoV]

Is there or has there ever been a national championship in Kaisa?

National championships are arranged each year. But last year there was a Kaisa's World Championship tournament too. The attendees were mainly from Finland, but there were some from Russia and its neighbouring countries too.

I remember first hearing about Kaisa in the late 1990's when Mika first came to the states. There was an article in a pool magazine about Mika and he mentioned playing the game (I'm not sure how much he actually played it, he may have been exxagerating a bit), but their was a photo of the table with a close up of a ball in the jaws of the pocket and I was stunned! There was just a slight space on each side of the ball. If I had access to such a table I'd regularly practice shots on it just to improve my pool shotmaking.

Yeah, Mika was a good Kaisa player. I remember him mentioning that he has made run-outs in Kaisa, which is a difficult task. You need to make 60 points in one inning and without caroms you'd need at least 10 consecutive pots (pocketing Kaisa earns you 6 points). I don't think there are too many run-outs during a typical Kaisa tournament.

Kaisa is definitely a unique experience, but I don't know how well the practice translates into pool. Kaisa balls and also Kaisa cues are way heavier than in pool and even the stroke technique is often somewhat different. Typical style is to hit the balls real hard, practically pounding them into the pocket. Which makes it all the more amazing that anyone can make balls in the game. There's a fun, though short, trailer of 2005 Kaisa national championships on Youtube.

 

[mjantti]

Kaisa is a challenging game. I don't know if it tells something about Finnish stubborn attitude. There's also a very educational video which goes deeper into the Finnish mentality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyJ_6epH2SY (contains nudity )

D)

Vahmurka, I've totally forgotten the kaisa ball request you made, still up for them? :sorry:

 

[JarnoV]

Yeah, Mika was a good Kaisa player. I remember him mentioning that he has made run-outs in Kaisa, which is a difficult task. You need to make 60 points in one inning and without caroms you'd need at least 10 consecutive pots (pocketing Kaisa earns you 6 points). I don't think there are too many run-outs during a typical Kaisa tournament.

Someone commented on Finnish forum that run-outs from the first shot, "break and run-out" as you would call it in pool, are extremely rare in ranking-events. Typically the highest run of a tournament is 35-45 and runs of over 50 do happen now and then.

Mika mentions his run-outs in go4pool.net interview. He says he made his first 60 point run when he was 17. His Kaisa comments start from around 10 minutes.

 

[Vahmurka]

Vahmurka, I've totally forgotten the kaisa ball request you made, still up for them? :sorry:

Mikko, I would gratefully accept a set (or even two) if you manage to find them cheaper than 100 euro per set (that's the price I heard). If about a hundred, probably only one. But yes, we are still looking for the set.

 

[JarnoV]

OK, Petri Pohjola posted a few links to recorded matches of the Kaisa World Championships.

I don't know much about the strategy, but couple of clarifications might make it easier to follow the matches. One, both have their own cue ball and you can move your opponent's cue ball as you wish. This becomes an important strategic element in the game, because object balls are often in locations where it's impossible to pocket them. Two, you don't have to hit any object ball or cushion for a legal shot. This means that you can move your cue ball to a better position easily. (Of course, your opponent can move your cue ball with his cue ball etc.)

Points are given roughly as follows: kaisa (the yellow ball) is worth 6 points, reds are 3 points and opponent's cue ball 2 points. You get extra points from caroms of the cue ball after it has hit the object ball. Banking the kaisa ball in to the center pocket doubles the points. That said, it's an extremely difficult shot. Apologies if I got something wrong, I'm not an experienced Kaisa player.

Enjoy:

Petri Pohjola vs. Ville Pasanen
Petri Pohjola vs. Pasi Kulmala
Petri Pohjola vs. Jarno Ahola
The finals: Petri Pohjola vs. Marko Rautiainen

You can find even more matches by googling the terms: Чемпионат мира по кайзе 2010

(No, the search does not find pictures of naked russian women.)

 

[Vahmurka]

You can find even more matches by googling the terms: Чемпионат мира по кайзе 2010

(No, the search does not find pictures of naked russian women.)

confirmed, basically what it says is "Kaisa World championship 2010"

 

[JarnoV]

Today's the day to see some live Kaisa action!

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=233094