New case against smoking

Oh, forgot to mention: if this was really just a health issue, instead of outright bans, the activists would just clamor for every place that allows smoking to just be forced to put up large "surgeon general's warning" type signs on every business that allowed smoking, just like they have on packs of cigarettes, or the warnings on gas pumps, or the signs outside paint booths.

But they are dishonest. It isn't about health issues, or 'worker safety' (lol) or any of the other tired excuses they drag up. This is just about "I want you to do what I want. Period."
 
I read a few posts

but didn't waste my time reading the whole thread.

All i see is someone bringing up a subject that has very little or nothing to do with pool so they can push their agenda.

Then a bunch of other people jump in to push their agenda.

Take it to the npr forum where it belongs.

And please don't insult my intelligence by posting that he mentioned a cue case in his original post.

This has nothing to do with pool.

SLIM
 
SLIM said:
but didn't waste my time reading the whole thread.

All i see is someone bringing up a subject that has very little or nothing to do with pool so they can push their agenda.

Then a bunch of other people jump in to push their agenda.

Take it to the npr forum where it belongs.

And please don't insult my intelligence by posting that he mentioned a cue case in his original post.

This has nothing to do with pool.

SLIM
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I don,t want smoking,drinking and gambling baned from pool rooms.that is why they call them pool room's.they were not meant to be a church or a hospital.the healthy people come from the church and the hospital and health spas spread a little flu virus around then go home.the waitress from the pool room goes to the hospital with the flu.don't mess with the system.

bill
 
Spider1 said:
Such as making profit.



The fire code and food inspection comparison is absurd.

The public has a reasonable expectation when entering a place of business that the business has adequate fire safety protections in place, and doesn't serve tainted food. People don't go out to bars to get burned alive or have poisoned food served them. People DO however go out to bars that allow it to smoke and drink. By your standards we should outlaw serving alcohol which is also a 'public safety' and health risk. [<---click and read please]

So be completely honest: you favor outlawing all businesses that serve alcohol too right? Fatty foods? Processed sugars? Caffeine products? That's the problem with the one-pet-issue 'smoking is icky..ban it!' crowd: they advocate reprehensible infringements on people's personal freedoms and constitutional rights without even thinking through their philosophy and what it means to other activities, some of which might be things they like.



YOU saw no affects. But you said yourself you were not there when the ban was implemented. Well some of us have been through smoking bans before (even twice) and actually work in the industry and saw what happens first hand. I wrote a post about it here.


Lastly, one thing that always cracks me up with the bar industry is so many people think they know everything (or anything) about it just because they spend a lot of time sitting on a bar stool. But that is a whole other discussion. :grin:
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You totally missed the point.
Drinking, fatty foods, etc........... these are thing that effect the person who consumes these products. However smoking not only adversely effects the person who consumes the product it also poisons innocent bystanderds..
See if you drink too much YOU get sorosis of the liver not me. If you eat to much fatty foods, YOU get Diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc..... NOT me. If you smoke to much YOU & ME can get Lung Cancer, you on the inhale and you poison me on the exhale.
People who go out for dinner, dancing & drinking at the club should have every expatiation that they will not contract Lung Cancer just because they want to enjoy a night on the town.
 
jmurphy said:
You totally missed the point.
Drinking, fatty foods, etc........... these are thing that effect the person who consumes these products. However smoking not only adversely effects the person who consumes the product it also poisons innocent bystanderds..
See if you drink too much YOU get sorosis of the liver not me. If you eat to much fatty foods, YOU get Diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc..... NOT me. If you smoke to much YOU & ME can get Lung Cancer, you on the inhale and you poison me on the exhale.
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That's a nice theory, but since the cost of health care and absenteeism due to obesity gets passed on to everyone....doesn't hold up.

But ok, let's toss out foods, and look just at alcohol. Alcohol absolutely has health risks that occur not only to the consumer, but directly to others around them. From the higher rates of traffic fatalities, to the increases in all sorts of crime and violence/domestic violence. So why not ban it too? The alcohol related traffic deaths alone would drop to almost nothing if people were only allowed to drink at home. So you would support that, right? I mean it is a 'health risk' after all, and 'innocent bystanders' (who didn't even go INTO the place serving booze) get hurt/killed every single day by it...so ban away, right?


People who go out for dinner, dancing & drinking at the club should have every expatiation that they will not contract Lung Cancer just because they want to enjoy a night on the town.
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There is no one holding a gun to their heads forcing them to go into places that allow smoking. If there are enough people worried about it and demanding non smoking venues, there will quickly be a supplier. But thats not good enough, right? 'Everything gotta be my way or nothing' with some people.
 
Spider1 said:
That's a nice theory, but since the cost of health care and absenteeism due to obesity gets passed on to everyone....doesn't hold up.

But ok, let's toss out foods, and look just at alcohol. Alcohol absolutely has health risks that occur not only to the consumer, but directly to others around them. From the higher rates of traffic fatalities, to the increases in all sorts of crime and violence/domestic violence. So why not ban it too? The alcohol related traffic deaths alone would drop to almost nothing if people were only allowed to drink at home. So you would support that, right? I mean it is a 'health risk' after all, and 'innocent bystanders' (who didn't even go INTO the place serving booze) get hurt/killed every single day by it...so ban away, right?




There is no one holding a gun to their heads forcing them to go into places that allow smoking. If there are enough people worried about it and demanding non smoking venues, there will quickly be a supplier. But thats not good enough, right? 'Everything gotta be my way or nothing' with some people.
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Everybody should have a reasonable expatiation that when we venture outside our house that we will have clean air to breath, is that so hard to understand?
Why do you support a position that poisons the air you and your family breaths?
Smokers whether they know it or not are some of the most selfish people on the face of the planet. They exercise their right to smoke with little or no regard to the health hazards they pose to others.
 
chefjeff said:
If any property is "public," outside is it.

Inside is private property.

It's so easy.

Jeff Livingston
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Not true, but you and Spider are splitting hairs.
Let me put it to you this way. Come to the poolhall that I frequent and you will not be allowed to smoke. No matter how much your tortured mind cries out for it's nicotine fix; you will not be allowed to smoke. No matter how much you beg, plead, or otherwise demean yourself in front of the management; you will not be allowed to smoke.
Now, put that in your pipe and smoke it. :)
 
jmurphy said:
Everybody should have a reasonable expatiation that when we venture outside our house that we will have clean air to breath, is that so hard to understand?
Why do you support a position that poisons the air you and your family breaths?
Smokers whether they know it or not are some of the most selfish people on the face of the planet. They exercise their right to smoke with little or no regard to the health hazards they pose to others.
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Typical. Can't defend it, no rational response....so resort to nonsense appeals to emotion! "Think of the families (in bars)!!" Really? :lol:

Again, respond to the alcohol comparison. Everything you listed about cigarettes being ok to ban because they are a 'health risk' to others also applies to alcohol. So you support banning public consumption of alcohol too, right?

The reason you guys never want to answer that and always change the subject when this comes up is simple: either you are a hypocrite or everyone gets a good look at just how fascist your beliefs are. It's hilarious to watch over and over again. :thumbup2:
 
Tramp Steamer said:
Not true, but you and Spider are splitting hairs.
Let me put it to you this way. Come to the poolhall that I frequent and you will not be allowed to smoke. No matter how much your tortured mind cries out for it's nicotine fix; you will not be allowed to smoke. No matter how much you beg, plead, or otherwise demean yourself in front of the management; you will not be allowed to smoke.
Now, put that in your pipe and smoke it. :)
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What's a pool hall, private or public?

Jeff Livingston

PS I don't smoke.
 
chefjeff said:
What's a pool hall, private or public?

Jeff Livingston

PS I don't smoke.
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It is public, in your world. In my world it is a place of assembly as defined by city code and is therefore subject to any and all city ordinances pertaining to places of assembly.

PS Neither do I.
 
Tramp Steamer said:
It is public, in your world. In my world it is a place of assembly as defined by city code and is therefore subject to any and all city ordinances pertaining to places of assembly.

PS Neither do I.
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It's PRIVATE in my and any sane, peaceful world. The public is invited but, as the signs say, the OWNERS can refuse to serve, that is they can refuse to associate with whomever they wish....just like the customers can associate or not with the business owner. Peace via voluntary means.

It is PUBLIC for you if you believe the ones who should call the shots are the politicians instead of the owners and their customers engaging in VOLUNTARY exchanges.

Pool is dangerous and has been outlawed many a time. That's why this thread IS about pool, btw. By supporting the taking of the owner's property, his responsiblities and his profits, you could be supporting the taking of pool itself from your neighborhood.

Statism is a dangerous sword that cuts both ways.

Jeff Livingston
 
Spider1 said:
They never seem to grasp this no matter how many times you spell it out for them.
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lets help them out with their research.
 

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All I know is you guys can't light up in my poolroom and that's good enough for me.
Now, what say we take a break from all this nonsense. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. :)
 
Spider1 said:
Again, respond to the alcohol comparison. Everything you listed about cigarettes being ok to ban because they are a 'health risk' to others also applies to alcohol. So you support banning public consumption of alcohol too, right?
Driving Drunk is already against the law.

The reason you guys never want to answer that and always change the subject when this comes up is simple: either you are a hypocrite or everyone gets a good look at just how fascist your beliefs are. It's hilarious to watch over and over again. :thumbup2:
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Please enlighten me on how my right to have clean air to breath when I go out at night is Fascist? See I don't care what people do when it affects them, I only care if someone does something that is hazardous to me. What gives a smoker the right to poison other people?
See your problem is you don't conceder second hand smoke as poison. If people dropped dead instantly from breathing other people's second hand smoke cigarettes would be illegal, however since it takes time for second hand smoke to kill, people turn a blind eye to it.

Please tell me if your Mother, Father, Brother, Sister, Wife, Children, etc.... had Terminal Lung Cancer contracted from second hand smoke would you be sitting there talking about a smoker's right to exhale poison in your face? Would be sitting there telling me how that member of your family should have stayed out of the Bar, Night Club, Casino, etc......?
 
chefjeff said:
What's a pool hall, private or public?

Jeff Livingston

PS I don't smoke.
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See Jeff that's the problem with the Libertarian views.
I guess in your view a privet owned business should not be subject to ANY Codes or Regulations. The building could be a Fire trap, Kitchen serving rancid food, etc.........
And the Libertarian view would be to let the public decide to go there or not. Jeff do I have your view about right?

What you guys fail to realize is that none of the regulations, building codes, smoking ban (if the city or state passed it) NONE of this violates privet property rights.
No where does it say that anyone has a "Right to own and operate a Business" See once you decide to open a Business on your Privet Property you sign papers
that state that you agree to follow ALL Federal, State, & Local laws and regulations as it pertains to your business.
 
jason said:
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Jason ,
I think you might have something here. Bottom line , owners have the right to do whatever they want as long as they abide by the law.
Smokers have the same rights under that umbrella. Whether you are in a room that allows or doesn't it's your choice.
This is not a moral issue. It is a personal one. As long as no laws are broken , no foul - no penalty .
All of this really goes no where.
I truly did bring this up because of my pool case. No other agenda. I was really just surprised and wanted to share.. well I hope it will...burn itself out..excuse the pun, just can't help it.
 
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