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Jim Murnak Cue Cases get dramatic price hike on June 30th
- Thread starter jimM
- Start date
Wait till I have straightened everything out.
I appreciate that you may place an order on Monday but I'm sorry that you are not happy with me or my timing. Probably it would be better if you waited until it is possible for me to give you what you want.
Thanks,
Jim
I appreciate that you may place an order on Monday but I'm sorry that you are not happy with me or my timing. Probably it would be better if you waited until it is possible for me to give you what you want.
Thanks,
Jim
It seems to be working now.
It is questionable whether the site is working well now, but I actually got another site put up because the hosters site went down. www.jimmurnakcuecases.us It wasn't a good time for the other one to go down.
John, I don't mind suggestions. They are always good to keep you thinking. Keep it coming, you're helping a lot.
Jim
It is questionable whether the site is working well now, but I actually got another site put up because the hosters site went down. www.jimmurnakcuecases.us It wasn't a good time for the other one to go down.
John, I don't mind suggestions. They are always good to keep you thinking. Keep it coming, you're helping a lot.
Jim
I've long thought the same. Although the following is an extreme example, consider this fine Hartmann belting leather briefcase:
You may take home this mass-produced and totally standardized briefcase for a mere $1,750.
In contrast, after trading numerous design emails with JB, I purchased the following "semi-custom" 3x5 cue case for $400 + $75 shipping:
"Mr. Hartmann" doesn't spend any time with his customers communicating on design features or instructing his manufacturing team how to make this case different from all the rest. It also seems to me that the functionality requirements for a cue case are significantly more complicated than they are for briefcases.
So I think we should be grateful to "one at a time" casemakers like John Barton, Jack Justis, Jim Murnak, Dennis Swift et al for giving us great value compared to other types of leather cases.
I'm sorry Jim but I read that 3 times and I can't understand what you mean. Were you intentionally obtuse? I'm sure you still have my file on record. You can call me to have me place an order, tell me when you could deliver a case (like within 6 months), or if you prefer I can call you, OR, if you prefer not to promise a finish date when you demand my $400-$600 up front I can take my business elsewhere. It would be a shame if we could not reach a compromise because I really like your products but I have hesitated to place another order for the reasons stated.
Can you give me what I want? I still can't understand your meaning...Tom
"All things being equal"
John, I like your products.
I also like Jack Justis cases and I have been the proud owner of a Jim Murnak case that I have lugged around daily for about 6 years now. Tremendous case and superb workmanship.
You compared yourself and your business to theirs, as if they have an unequal advantage over you.
I don't know what your working conditions are. I don't know if you personally build all or any of your cases or not.
I have been led to believe that if I buy a Jack Justis or Jim Murnak case, I will receive a case that was personally constructed by one of those two men, and not by a shop of "trained artisans".
Do you personally build your own cases? If so, which ones? You design a hell of a case, and you appear to manage a shop very effectively, just wondering if anyone buys a John Barton hand-made case if your hands are the ones that build it.
Joe
Fair
If I have 6 months, that's fine. I won't need it unless it is a fantastically complicated job. Not trying to be obtuse, Just trying to manage the situation. Thanks. My cell number is 917-696-0098 Oh, I keep records like WC Fields did.
If I have 6 months, that's fine. I won't need it unless it is a fantastically complicated job. Not trying to be obtuse, Just trying to manage the situation. Thanks. My cell number is 917-696-0098 Oh, I keep records like WC Fields did.
This is the sole reason why I am afraid to get back into case making..
If SouthWest said that they were going to start charging $2700-$3300 for their cues and require deposits then the "list" would shrink considerably.
Been awhile since you've ordered a South West,they are charging more than that now and there list is still 10 1/2yrs long,I know becouse I just recieved mine after 10 1/2 yrs and payed more than that.
If SouthWest said that they were going to start charging $2700-$3300 for their cues and require deposits then the "list" would shrink considerably.
Been awhile since you've ordered a South West,they are charging more than that now and there list is still 10 1/2yrs long,I know becouse I just recieved mine after 10 1/2 yrs and payed more than that.
And they require half down before they start the construction.....
Joe
SLOW_N_TIGHT
Registered
hi jim i really like your cases and think that they are well worth the money you are currently charging. in fact the over all quality and craftsmanship has been so good that there is no reason why anyone should have a reason to complain about a higher price, as they are buying a functional peace of art. another thing that motivates me as a consumer to buy from you or jack for that matter. IS THAT YOUR CASES ARE MADE IN AMERICA. this is something that is very important to me. all in all you have earned a fan by me and one day when im financialy capable i will be a loyal customer.
thanks
Mike "the tongue"
thanks
Mike "the tongue"
Actually you read it wrong. I wasn't comparing myself to Jim or Jack as if they have an advantage over me. They don't.
I was merely making the observation that Jack has an advantage over Jim when it comes to how much profit he can earn based on the unequal way that both men run their respective businesses.
Jack runs his with very low overhead, essentially none. Jim has more overhead. For the non-business people on the forum overhead is the expenses which are NOT related to the actual production. Rent, wages, machine upkeep, insurance, etc....
All other things being equal Jack makes more money per case for cases that take about the same amount of time to make. Neither of these men have anything to do with me although I identify more with Jim than I do with Jack when it comes to how I choose to make cases as well as design philosophy.
Regarding your comments about you being led to believe that Jack and Jim do all the work themselves I don't know where you got that idea from. Neither of them say that they do all the work themselves and in fact they don't do all the work themselves as far as I know.
Jack imports his interiors that are made in a factory in China. The hand carving is done by Ron Ross, laser engraving is farmed out to someone else. A lot of the stamping is done on a hand crank roller press (I suppose this counts as doing it yourself if you are cranking the handle).
I don't know what Jim's setup looks like but I believe he has had help in the past and of course the premise of this thread is that Jim is raising prices in order to pay for help. I am sure that Jim would clarify it for you if you asked him.
As for me I do work on our cases. Not all of them as all of them don't require my hands-on work. I can build the whole case from start to finish. Furthermore nothing happens on one of my cue cases that didn't start in my mind. Every single aspect of JB Cases comes from my brain and the people who work for me are an extension of my mind and hands. If anything I am a very inefficient manager as I have the resources to put out around 80-100 custom cases per month and we get 10 done if we are lucky. I sign cases that I spent a lot of my time working on, be that in design or actual hands-on work.
However no shop smaller than mine has the capabilities that we do. Jack doesn't and Jim doesn't. They are handicapped by a lack of workers and machines.
The point of this thread is clear though. It seems as if a lot of people don't realize what they are getting for the money.
They tend to overvalue that which is supposedly made by one person just because of that romantic notion and undervalue that which was made in a shop full of people because of some notion that whatever is made in such a shop must be inferior. In fact the things made in a shop where various people specialize in particular areas can result in a far better product as each person is a master of their craft.
If people were truly objective, that is if they put value on products based on their actual quality and not their perceived quality then a lot of the money issues in the world would disappear as people stopped overpaying for products that exist mostly on hype.
But the fact is that we live in a world where anything can be made sexy enough to sell for more than it's worth. Artistically posed images and photoshop can do more to increase the perceived value of a product than a million closeups of a BETTER case. I just refuse to play that game though and choose to keep plugging away with detail shots of my product that hopefully convey to the buyer the level of quality he or she will actually receive. Hand made doesn't mean well made.
But that's another topic for another day as well. The fact is that it's tough to be a custom case maker and have too many orders on the plate. Making cases isn't rocket science but it is meticulous work no matter how many people work on the product. And when the case maker has to wear all the hats in his business then it's that much harder.
I sympathize with Jim and understand where he is at. Right now we are also in a transition phase where we hope to emerge far stronger with a clear-cut path from initial order to completed case that's easy for the customer, for the dealer and for us to follow. Jim wants and needs that as well if he is going to keep making cue cases.
If SouthWest said that they were going to start charging $2700-$3300 for their cues and require deposits then the "list" would shrink considerably.
Been awhile since you've ordered a South West,they are charging more than that now and there list is still 10 1/2yrs long,I know becouse I just recieved mine after 10 1/2 yrs and payed more than that.
So they are charging more than that? With half down? Have they gone through their list and asked everyone on it to send in deposits?
I bet not. Let's say that they can make 100 cues per year (just tossing out a figure) That's a 1000 cue backlog. Care to bet how much that backlog would shrink if Laurie started asking everyone on the list to send in deposits now?
Roy Malott gets criticized for the prices of SW cues on his website and yet it seems as if SW themselves are using his website as a price guide. Am I wrong here? I honestly had no idea what Laurie is charging for new cues. I was under the imporession that a typical six pointer with a couple veneers was around $2300. I paid $1400 for mine in 2003. Laurie did say once that she was not happy getting prices that are a decade old. I guess she adjusted for inflation and what she thinks the market will bear.
There you go Jim. Raise your prices even more. Von Rhett was right, your cases are priced too low. Start with him and double your prices. He should be happy to pay it and encourage others to do the same.
Sherm,
I am not confused. My point is that that 10+ year wait is somewhat artificial IF the price when "ordered" is not the price when delivered.
What would the real wait time be if Laurie emailed everyone who is on the list and said send us your deposits and at the end of the next three months the new list is ONLY those who sent money in?
Would you bet me that the "list" shortens by about five years at least?
If I took every order that comes to me with no deposit, just folks placing an order then my backlog would be two years right now.
I personally feel that a lot of "lists" are this way. So and so had a two year wait, and so and so has a five year wait, and so and so is not taking orders at all unless you really have an in. If people had to really put up the money up front then they would quietly remove themselves from a lot of lists and free up space for customers who are ready to pay now.
Anyway, this is off the track of the conversation at hand. I once told Jerry Olivier that I was getting into diamonds. This was said after I had just about finished unpacking 400 cases (40 boxes) and was in the process of putting them up on the walls and here comes Jerry with a Danbuilt case on wheels with about 40 cues in it worth more than four times my case inventory. So I told him I was going to go into diamonds so I could have more in my pocket than he had in the cue trunk.
This is a good read into niche business management and marketing.