It wasn't me but only because I didn't see the post before Roy was alerted to it.
How about we focus on the fact that WHAT was said had no need TO be said?
Jim Murnak Cue Cases get dramatic price hike on June 30th
- Thread starter jimM
- Start date
It wasn't me but only because I didn't see the post before Roy was alerted to it.
How about we focus on the fact that WHAT was said had no need TO be said?
.....:grin-square:.....
One good thing about you John, you don't like to argue.
Let's see, you came onto a thread where I was saying that I wasn't getting enough orders to have people work steady on them. Which means that I could either need a lot of orders or more money. So you were helping me out by telling people that they could buy my cases somewhere else instead of from me. Wow, I appreciate that. You're a real good guy. Also, I didn't retire yet, but Jack did. Na, you couldn't mean him. Maybe someone would post who you may be talking about, cause I can't figure it out. Usually you don't pull punches, but on this one, it's a real puzzler.
If Roy now knows that I have been a little upset about this whole thing, why hasn't he called me? He never had any problem with calling me on weekends or anytime.
Keep it up John, you're great for anyone's business. You're kind of like a self-contained promotion package.
Jim
Let's see, you came onto a thread where I was saying that I wasn't getting enough orders to have people work steady on them. Which means that I could either need a lot of orders or more money. So you were helping me out by telling people that they could buy my cases somewhere else instead of from me. Wow, I appreciate that. You're a real good guy. Also, I didn't retire yet, but Jack did. Na, you couldn't mean him. Maybe someone would post who you may be talking about, cause I can't figure it out. Usually you don't pull punches, but on this one, it's a real puzzler.
If Roy now knows that I have been a little upset about this whole thing, why hasn't he called me? He never had any problem with calling me on weekends or anytime.
Keep it up John, you're great for anyone's business. You're kind of like a self-contained promotion package.
Jim
Mr. Know it all
Jim,
Don't waste your time with him.
Jim,
Don't waste your time with him.
Just JB stirring up the pot and getting his name involved with every single thread about cue cases that has ever been. The referrence about the retired cuemaker was just a sheet stirring comment directed straight at Jack, jealousy is a terrible thing... JMO
Jim, before you rake John over the coals you might look in to the fact that Indy Cues might be the only place a person could see some of your cases. Your web site has been down at least for today. I've been trying for hours to check out your site and eventually saw on Google that Indy was listed as one of your dealers. So whether John recommended Indy Cues or not, anyone trying to find your site to look at your cases probably would have ended up at Indy anyway. Your cases look great, BTW.
There is a strange one
My website hasn't been down for years. I'll have to check it out.
Thanks
My website hasn't been down for years. I'll have to check it out.
Thanks
Jim's site came right up for me when i looked at it. Nice looking cases.
It would be nice to see pricing for the different size cases.
John, cheap shot at Jack. Not something to be proud of.
Jim's site came right up for me when i looked at it. Nice looking cases.
It would be nice to see pricing for the different size cases.
John, cheap shot at Jack. Not something to be proud of.
Still won't work for me.
Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to www.jimmurnakcuecases.com
Try reloading: www.*jimmurnakcuecase*s.*com
Additional suggestions:
Access a cached copy of www.*jimmurnakcuecase*s.*com
Search on Google:
Is this the correct URL?
Sherm
Perfect. Succinct. Says it all.
Jim - "don't argue with an idiot - you can't win".
-von
PS: I've been on your site all day, deciding on my next case. I'll email you the art work this afternoon.
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www.JimMurnakCueCases.com I click on this and it comes right up.
Funny you have it right. I am also using google chrome.
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WOW, that's strange. I clicked on your link and it still wont work for me. I wonder if you could be getting a cached copy? That's strange, everything else is working just fine for me. Anyone else having trouble going to this site?
No, you said that you are not getting enough money for your cases and that you are under pressure to get the orders done which indicates you have plenty of orders but you don't have enough profit per order to hire help.
You said,
So I didn't take it that you were trolling for orders. I thought you were informing people that your prices were going up. Was then intention to get people to jump and put orders in now before the price hike? If so then excuse me for interrupting that sales strategy.
Personally I would have let folks know that they could get cases from IndyQ if I were in your position as my thoughts always go towards promoting my dealers. I would bet that if Roy were selling more Murnaks steadily then he would be ordering more steadily. The pattern I have always seen with Roy is that if he sells three then he wants to order 15 more.
And yes, I was talking about Jack. It's the cold reality in this business that there isn't a lot of profit in cue cases, compared to the time that goes into them. It wasn't a cheap shot. The fact is that Jack is retired, his house is paid for, he works by himself out of the laundry room, his choices are limited, his overhead is small, his prices are higher than most, he has his way of doing cases that is pretty much set in stone so it works like clockwork. In other words he has a successful business model when it comes to how to make a profit in the BILLIARD industry for custom cases.
You don't because you need to run it like a regular business with all the overhead that goes with it.
I understand your position. I have stopped taking orders so that I can refocus on how to get more efficient and raise our profitability without having to raise prices. Every month I have to make payroll for more than ten people. So it's fair to say that no one on this forum understands the business of cue case making more than I do. I understand what it means to be behind on the orders and have customers crawling up your back wanting them. I understand what it means to have new orders coming in and be sick to have to turn them away because you can't handle the volume. I understand what it means to turn out 5-6 cases a month when the output should be more like 20.
Jim's site came right up for me when i looked at it. Nice looking cases.
It would be nice to see pricing for the different size cases.
John, cheap shot at Jack. Not something to be proud of.
No Bob, it wasn't a cheap shot. It's reality. Jack knows he is in a sweet position by running a business out of his home. Think about all the full-time cue makers who complain about losing business to part-timers who run their shops out of the garage. Is that not the same thing?
A full timer has to carry a lot more overhead than a part timer. That's just reality.
What would you think if an equally good stylist as you set up shop in his house down the street? Let's say that he charged exactly the same as you do and had exactly the same amount of customers. His profit would be more than yours by exactly the amount of extra expenses you have by maintaining a shop in a separate building with all that goes with it.
Not that this would be wrong of that guy to do but the cold reality is that he would be making more profit than you would if all else is equal.
Now this is a cheap shot. At whom?
And actually Von Rhett you don't really understand business. The idea is to get paid equally well for the simple cases as well as the complicated ones. When a case is made the time it takes is dependent on the complexity and it's simply shorter for simple ones.
So there is technically no difference between making three simple cases at $500 each or making one complicated case for $1500 when looking at the construction.
The real underpaid grey area comes in design. For the simple cases most of the time the design work is not very long but sometimes multiple hours can be spent in conversation with the customer to get the specs down. Expand that to tens of hours for the complicated cases and the personal profit dwindles. This is the part that just about everyone undercharges for because it's very difficult to charge for it. How do get people to pay you for the time spent talking about their ideas? It's not easy to ask for what you are worth because other people don't see it that way.
You' are telling Jim to be a Searing and not a Schon but you have no clue really what you are talking about. Do you think Dennis is making all that he wants and needs to make? No, he sells a cue for far less than the amount of real time he has put into perfecting the art of cue making and then it gets flipped for more than he charged for it. However IF Searing charged "market" prices for his work then he wouldn't have as many orders on his list.
If SouthWest said that they were going to start charging $2700-$3300 for their cues and require deposits then the "list" would shrink considerably.
I don't know how long it takes Jim to make a case but it takes us an average of 20 hours to make a case without tooling. That's just construction time without any design and customer consultation time.
So what do you think he should charge in order to be a Searing?
And if he follows your advice then the quality expectation would also rise to the level of Searing. Think about what that really means before you presume to tell Jim how to structure his business.
Pricing is a chicken/egg riddle that is not easy to solve. Beyond pricing the real issue is efficiency and cost control. It's not as simple as you make it out to be that one can simply eliminate the simple models and focus on the complicated ones and charge a lot more. That only works in specific situations where everything comes together just right to allow a person to work in that space. It's not something that a craftsman can just make happen by deciding it's going to be that way. Unless of course he has other income to support him while he builds his business on that model.
This is the easiest way to check if a site is up or down http://www.downornot.com
Well Jim, I'll bite, but with a condition. I've bought several holsters and cases from you or from your dealers. I've always been happy with the quality of your work but not once with the promised shipping date. I'm not talking about 2 or 3 weeks late either! I don't mind that when I don't have to pay in full up front but when I do I want my product at least close to the promised date. If it's going to be late I'd like an email with a new shipping date. Is that too much to ask ?
If you will money back guarantee a shipping date, even a long one, I will call and order on Monday. Oh I know already, I have to pay in full up front :angry:. Why not half up front ?
By the way, no disrespect intended. I just want to voice what I think is fair. I get wild when I pay in full up front and get lousy customer service..Tom