Sterling wave 2x3
- Thread starter Monstermash
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Really?
Well let's examine your equipment shall we?
Where are KC Cues made? China, Taiwan?
Instroke, made in Taiwan, or the Czech Republic depending on when you got yours.
Not bad for a NOT made in America cue is it?
Please. I have been this way for 15 years and I don't intend to start pandering to get business now.
So many of you think that you know what's best for me to do my business but not one of you is in my shoes. So it's real simple, when a competitor deserves to be trashed then I will trash them. When a customer gets out of line then his business is no longer welcome. You remember those signs in every store which say "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."? Well that's how it is. I reserve the right to deal with customers who are honest and fair and appreciate what we make. And I reserve the right to tell anyone who would attempt to outright lie or at best make a tiny situation into something it's not that they can't expect me to be nice to them.
Ever heard of Coke vs. Pepsi, Apple vs. Microsoft, "Droid Does", Ford vs. Chevy? I guess not because these are all iconic rivalries between competitors.
I am who I am and that's that. My tolerance for bull crap is very low and this thread was started by a big load of it.
So I am using it for fertilizer to show everyone that not only is the initial accusation untrue but also what my products are made of that makes the accusation so very likely (99%) to be untrue.
You don't want to buy what I make then I guarantee you that there is another person in line who is grateful that you aren't in ahead of them. There are plenty of other good case makers and I list most of them on my website right on the front page.
I also give space to many others like Marc Turcasso, Marcel Merkowitz, Rex Goulet, and Rusty Melton, praising them for their artistry and mastery of the craft. So spare me your lecture. I don't need it.
And try practicing what you preach.
You're unbelieveable John Barton!
There you go, keep demonstrating YOUR lack of character. Trash more people w/o knowing the facts - most non-American cues/cases I have/had I took in trade for American products I've sold. My Instroke is about 8 years old and WAS probably made in the Czech Republic...by you. Maybe it is time to get rid of it! Afterall, it is looking pretty nasty. It is my understanding that KC Cues are manufactured in the US by KC Inductries in Fremont CA. Here's the Product Listing By Alibaba.com:
Quick Details
Place of Origin: California United States
Brand Name: KC Custom Cues
Model Number: KC-1 to KC-12
BEST HITTING CUE ON THE MARKET: HANDMADE HIGH-E...
Specifications
High-End Pool / Billiard Cues custom made in the United States. Price from $200 to $1200. KC Cues has been known since 1995.
Brand new TOP-OF-LINE hand made KC Custom pool cue (Model KC-12-ivry), beautiful SOLID EBONY forearm and butt sleeve, 4 real inlaid index rings at the joint, wrap, and the butt cap, TOTAL OF 12 beautiful REAL inlaid PRECIOUS MATERIAL points in forearm and butt sleeve, all points are outlined with PURPLEHEART inlaid frame, FLAT-FACE WOOD-TO-WOOD linen phenolic joint w/ high polish stainless steel pin, fiber phenolic ferrule, 13mm special MORI 11-layer pigskin cue tip ($30 value) for maximum cueball action and playing lifetime, 10"-pro-tapered Canadian hard rock Maple shaft, Irish linen wrap, weight 19oz, length 58". This cue contains newly developed, patented special components, which makes the hit very solid, almost vibration free and noise-free. Because of the new cue-making technology, this cue hits better than any other cue found on the market today.
I will admit though, I do use Sniper tips. I'm so bad...
There you go, keep demonstrating YOUR lack of character. Trash more people w/o knowing the facts - most non-American cues/cases I have/had I took in trade for American products I've sold. My Instroke is about 8 years old and WAS probably made in the Czech Republic...by you. Maybe it is time to get rid of it! Afterall, it is looking pretty nasty. It is my understanding that KC Cues are manufactured in the US by KC Inductries in Fremont CA. Here's the Product Listing By Alibaba.com:
Quick Details
Place of Origin: California United States
Brand Name: KC Custom Cues
Model Number: KC-1 to KC-12
BEST HITTING CUE ON THE MARKET: HANDMADE HIGH-E...
Specifications
High-End Pool / Billiard Cues custom made in the United States. Price from $200 to $1200. KC Cues has been known since 1995.
Brand new TOP-OF-LINE hand made KC Custom pool cue (Model KC-12-ivry), beautiful SOLID EBONY forearm and butt sleeve, 4 real inlaid index rings at the joint, wrap, and the butt cap, TOTAL OF 12 beautiful REAL inlaid PRECIOUS MATERIAL points in forearm and butt sleeve, all points are outlined with PURPLEHEART inlaid frame, FLAT-FACE WOOD-TO-WOOD linen phenolic joint w/ high polish stainless steel pin, fiber phenolic ferrule, 13mm special MORI 11-layer pigskin cue tip ($30 value) for maximum cueball action and playing lifetime, 10"-pro-tapered Canadian hard rock Maple shaft, Irish linen wrap, weight 19oz, length 58". This cue contains newly developed, patented special components, which makes the hit very solid, almost vibration free and noise-free. Because of the new cue-making technology, this cue hits better than any other cue found on the market today.
I will admit though, I do use Sniper tips. I'm so bad...
An awful lot of not-American companies use Alibaba to promote themselves and their products as American in origin. They do this to deceive wholesaler buyers and consumers alike.
This listing seems very much like those and I would be hesitant to believe that there is a KC Cues shop making cues in Fremont California based on that Alibaba listing.
The company I work for uses Alibaba all the time and it can be difficult to weed out the trade agents and distributors from actual manufacturers.
I would not bet against Barton on this if I were you. He will probably want to bet you $10,000 that you are wrong about the origin of KC Cues.
Really...what is YOUR source for this information Craig? I mean like I called KC myself...I guess they are liars. Maybe YOU would like to call them too! You were dead wrong in accusing Icbur of selling a fake Scruggs...it is likely you are dead wrong here too! However, I will give you the benefit of doubt...just tell me your source!
Bet Barton? Look if you have a problem with KC using Chinese labor (and they do not) why wouldn't you have a problem with Barton using Chinese labor? The only $10,000 bet I'll make is Barton is a disrespectful, vindictive, and hateful man! Visit his blog, he calls everyone but himself an a**hole and often tells them to go f themselves! He is undoubtedly a talented case maker, but he lacks the character to be a great case maker! Wanna bet?
I never made an accusation or said the cue was fake, I asked for some opinions so please do not put words in my mouth. There is big difference between what you said above and what I did.
Here are my exact words from the thread.
Guys this cue looks a little funny to me and I am not laughing. Look at the TS on the cue, it appears that there was also a stamp above it. It may be a real cue I do not know for certain, what is everyones opinion.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Scruggs-Custom-C...item19c66ed6c8
As for the KC Cues who makes them? Please tell us who you think makes them, please include a name. I have called the gentleman because I was going to buy some for resale. When he became cryptic about the cues I bought one off eBay, and took it apart. All the components are the same as those coming out of Asia, from the weight bolts, to the bumpers, and on and on.
You can believe what you want, that is certainly your right. In this case I am saying that the cues are not made in the USA, and there is no benefit of doubt needed. I have worked upon and sold enough imports to know one when it is in my hands.
Oh and by the way, when I say something is not as advertised that is what I believe based upon my own experience. If some how I am wrong, I will publicly retract my statement and apologize, we are all wrong at times no one is perfect. However, few stand up and admit it like I did in the thread you mentioned above and I do so not because I was wrong in asking a question, I did it because of the comments made by others.
Have a nice night
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Think they are the same, just a little different angle, and the way the light source it hitting the CASE.
LOL. Ok first of all the cues are Chinese. Roadie was trying to gently tell you that. So if you can't even figure that out we really don't have a discussion among equals here.
And you can't read because I call myself an asshole plenty of times. I am. I am not politically correct and don't align with cliques.
And anyone who deliberately goes out of their way to try to trash my business with a lie like Monstermash is doing can go off in a corner and pleasure themselves until their fingers bleed for all I care.
Trust me there is plenty that I suck at which deserves major criticism. Plenty of things I do that require major improvement.
One of them however is not that I develop a "character" that pleases you.
I do not have any problem with anyone using Chinese labor or any labor except slave labor. In China the factory worker is free to come and go as they please just as they are in the USA. I assume that Mr. Barton pays his staff well as I know that most factories in China are facing labor shortages right now and wages have increased dramatically as a result.
For KC Cues I have to say that I have never heard of them and I consider myself to be fairly knowledgeable about most cue brands. They claim to have been around since 1995 but I find no mention of them in my Blue Book, nor my Billiard Encyclopedia. With a quick google search I didn't even come across the Alibaba listing you referenced. It is pretty much my experience that most of the listings in Alibaba are for companies from China and India.
I only sought to point out to you that using the description that you did is not proof that the cues are made in the USA. You will find many listings on Alibaba for goods which are claimed to be of US origin but are manufactured in China.
As to the personal bias you show towards Mr. Barton I cannot say that he does not polarize people. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. If Mr. Barton's words are upsetting to you as it seems they are then by all means vocalize your displeasure.
He is however correct in pointing out that when you advocate buying American then perhaps it's best not to advertise your great experience with Chinese made pool cues.
I never said YOU did!
There are a lot of small cuebuilders that are NOT in either book. To the best of my knowledge, KC is a very small cuebuilder.
I guess you do NOT know how to use the search engines very well. The listing is #6 on the 1st page.
KC CUSTOM POOL CUES products, buy KC CUSTOM POOL CUES products ...
KC CUSTOM POOL CUES, Find complete details about POOL CUE from KC Industries. You may also find other POOL CUE products or Snooker & Billiard Cues suppliers ...
www.alibaba.com › ... › Snooker & Billiard Cues - Cached - Similar
I said "It is my understanding..." I have yet to see ANYONE offer ANY proof to the contrary! That includes YOU. I called KC and was told the cues are manufactured in the US, in addition to the info on the internet. What have YOU done? Listen to Manwon who also cannot provide any proof to the contrary? Is it possible they may use parts from overseas? Sure, about 75% of American cuebuilders do the same! How many cues do YOU own? Although I have sold a good part of my collection because I'm disabled...I still have about 30. Three are KCs, and all are American made...at least until someone can prove otherwise. BTW, the only KC I use is the j/b which I find to be superior to the BK, Mezz, or Icebreaker (all imports), my players are PFD or Josey. I sell the other KCs to league players who are looking for good cue at a reasonable price.
My "bias" towards Barton is based on his demeanor and actions.
These forums are public and as such it is quite easy to form an opinion about someone by the way in which they handle themselves. When someone publishes comments about a friend, as Barton did both in his blog and here on AZ, I am compelled to give MY opinion...just as you may give yours. What do you say about a man (Barton in this case) that says:
"So the latest round of the Justis feud saw some idiot on AZB who calls himself Monstermash stating that his girlfriend bought a Sterling 2×3 in March at the Super Billiards Expo and that it can't be used as a 2×3 and it damaged her shafts when she tried to put three shafts in the case.
This guy is a liar and an asshole."
That Barton is a fine man, huh?
Read more if you like...it gets worse! http://jbcases.com/caseblog/2011/06/15/liar-liar-pants-on-fire/
As for buying American...I am a disabled Vietnam Veteran! I can't always buy everything American but I certainly have the right to advocate it!!!
Roadie, Manwon, or you have yet to show me ANY proof that KC Cues are manufactured in China! In fact, no one has been able to offer any proof. I talked with KC and they said the cues are manufactured here. Any and all listings I have been able to find on the internet also say they are manufactured in the US. So it is STILL my understanding that indeed, KC Cues are manufactured in the US.
To the best of my knowledge, MM did NOT "trash your business"! He had a problem with one of your CHEAP imported cases, and reviewed it in the appropriate forum. He even pointed out some of the good features of the case. However in YOUR usual fashion, you cannot stand ANY criticism whatsoever...so YOU trashed him! Shame on you!
If you had ANY character at all...you should be apologizing to Tom and all the members of AZ for you behavior...but I won't hold my breath.
FYI, Mr Barton...you will never need to develope a character that pleases me because I will NEVER be a customer of yours! The only case I ever had that I assume you designed, was a Jiasen (The Tiger) and I sold it a month after I bought it because I did NOT like the interior design!
You are a vindictive and hateful man! Fortunately, YOU have to live with it...not me. Have a nice day...
uttahere:
But they have been around since 1995 and advertise on Alibaba. Want to make a tiny bet that you won't find any other "small" American cue maker listed on Alibaba. I could not find any. http://www.alibaba.com/products/pool_cues/US----------50/3.html
The "best of your knoweldge" then is very limited or else you are very naive.
I guess the "best of your knowledge" doesn't include the fact that search results come up different around the world. Who is being a nasty person now? And to someone you don't even know who has been polite to you? And you presume to tell me about character?
Well I can tell you that MY experience is that these cues are just like so many other cues made in China from the appearance and the way that the KC people handle their sales pitches and descriptions the signatures are all there. I also doubt that 75% of American cue makers are using parts sourced in China. If by overseas you mean things like Brazillian Rosewood, African Ebony etc... then sure 100% of cue makers are using parts from "overseas". Was that what you meant?
Well you didn't ask me this question but I will tell you the answer anyway, hundreds. From high end to low end. I have traveled the world with more than 50k in cues in my two dealer cases. I have been in dozens of cue makers shops and in several factories around the world. Do I qualify and get the cookie?
Well if the testimony from experts isn't enough then believe whatever the salesperson tells you. It's not like they are going to admit it to you when they are blatantly advertising something else.
Good for you. So IF you find out that the KC is actually Chinese then you will amend your Buy American stance into a Buy Quality stance right? Should I hold my breath on this?
So join the club. You think you are the first person who doesn't like me because of how I deal with people who attack me? Do you need a support group? Ask around and you will find it.
Compelled? Someone is twisting your arm and making you show off your ignorance?
Well I'd say that I laid it out pretty clearly without beating around the bush how I feel about the claim and the claimant. I guess you would prefer the sugarcoated politically correct version where I eviscerate him (rip him a new one) with flowery language instead.
Depends on your point of view. From mine it gets better because more evidence is brought to light that further discredits your friend's claim.
Sure buddy. No where in the world is hypocrisy forbidden. You can be as hypocritical as you like. Shout it from the rooftops while you are breaking with that fine Chinese cue that performs better than anything else you have ever used. You and Monstermash are definitely peas in a pod I will give you that.
Roadie, Manwon, or you have yet to show me ANY proof that KC Cues are manufactured in China! In fact, no one has been able to offer any proof. I talked with KC and they said the cues are manufactured here. Any and all listings I have been able to find on the internet also say they are manufactured in the US. So it is STILL my understanding that indeed, KC Cues are manufactured in the US.
To the best of my knowledge, MM did NOT "trash your business"! He had a problem with one of your CHEAP imported cases, and reviewed it in the appropriate forum. He even pointed out some of the good features of the case. However in YOUR usual fashion, you cannot stand ANY criticism whatsoever...so YOU trashed him! Shame on you!
If you had ANY character at all...you should be apologizing to Tom and all the members of AZ for you behavior...but I won't hold my breath.
FYI, Mr Barton...you will never need to develope a character that pleases me because I will NEVER be a customer of yours! The only case I ever had that I assume you designed, was a Jiasen (The Tiger) and I sold it a month after I bought it because I did NOT like the interior design!
You are a vindictive and hateful man! Fortunately, YOU have to live with it...not me. Have a nice day...
Lol, please. This guy "Tom" made up a lie about my product. That lie was first told in the main forum after I proved that "Tom" is completely ignorant not only about my business but also about Justis' business. ONLY after I took him down did he come with this revelation. I think that you don't your buddy as well as you think you do.
You keep fudging now with the "to the best of my knowledge" disclaimers. Well your knowledge is sorely lacking so maybe you ought to not get into discussions where you need to disclaim your ignorance.
As for your reasoning for selling a case I don't really care. I don't care what you like or don't like. You are completely and totally meaningless to me and your opinion of me or my products doesn't mean a damn thing. UNTIL you try to lie about my products at which time I will care and will defend them and go after you with all I am able to.
You call that vindictive and I call it protecting my interests. You call it hateful and I call it being frank. I don't hate Monstermash. Hate is not even really in my vocabulary. I see him, "Tom", as simply someone who is socially inept and incapable of backing down once he has wronged someone. Now he has created a lie and backed himself into a corner with that lie. To me he is the same as when a wasp is threatening me. I will attempt to allow the wasp to go free and leave me alone but if it persists then I will kill it. I don't hate the wasp but I will not allow it to harm me or mine.
Got it?
Roadie, Manwon, or you have yet to show me ANY proof that KC Cues are manufactured in China! In fact, no one has been able to offer any proof. I talked with KC and they said the cues are manufactured here. Any and all listings I have been able to find on the internet also say they are manufactured in the US. So it is STILL my understanding that indeed, KC Cues are manufactured in the US.
To the best of my knowledge, MM did NOT "trash your business"! He had a problem with one of your CHEAP imported cases, and reviewed it in the appropriate forum. He even pointed out some of the good features of the case. However in YOUR usual fashion, you cannot stand ANY criticism whatsoever...so YOU trashed him! Shame on you!
If you had ANY character at all...you should be apologizing to Tom and all the members of AZ for you behavior...but I won't hold my breath.
FYI, Mr Barton...you will never need to develope a character that pleases me because I will NEVER be a customer of yours! The only case I ever had that I assume you designed, was a Jiasen (The Tiger) and I sold it a month after I bought it because I did NOT like the interior design!
You are a vindictive and hateful man! Fortunately, YOU have to live with it...not me. Have a nice day...
It doesn't matter to me in any way shape or form what you believe, and as far as demeanor go's your can also be a little off center. I noticed you did not respond to your accusation about the question I ask about the Scruggs cue even when I responded to your question respectfully.
Other than your accusation I have nothing to prove in this conversation because I suspect that my knowledge concerning cues and cue construction is far beyond your's. However, I did expect you to man up and apologize for your completely incorrect remark I suppose it only shows your true character.
JIMO
I googled a little. You might want to check this page out.
http://www.importgenius.com/suppliers/yinoyi-enterprises-ltd
Apparently they are made in Taiwan by Yinoyi Enterprises. More precisely, Yinoyi was exporting pool cues to KC Industries in 2006.
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