Some material-hit questions

arknova

arknova

Me like Pool. Mhmm
Silver Member
Hi,

this thread is for those who really have an idea what's going on with the construction mechanics of a pool cue, I hope I don't get replies like "it's all the same". I'm looking for knowledgeable answers thanks :D


Ferrule
1) What's the difference between an ivory ferrule and the usual mircata? (perhaps describe in the form of hit)

2) I do see that some people store their ferrules until it's aged before they put it to use. Does the aging process help in any way to stiffen the hit?

3) These days I do see some people constructing ferruleless shafts. A ferrule is suppose to help the transfer of energy from the stick to the CB right? So if it's ferruleless, shouldn't it affect the playability rather than help it?

Shaft
1) Why is the hit of an old growth maple shaft > hard rock maple > normal maple?

2) How does a conical shaped taper differ in hit as a regular pro taper?

Joint
1) I heard that SS joint will hit stiffer than that of a phenolic joint but a phenolic joint tends to produce more English (due to the fact that its joint material is softer, hence bends more during hit and the longer the contact, the more english is produced as a result). Is this true?

2) How does big pin (Radial, ( 3-8/10, 3-8/9)) cues differ from small pins (5/16x14) ? Why do people prefer big pin cues?

3) How does a SS to wood joint differ from SS to SS joint / SS to Brass joint? (Hit, construction etc)

Butt
1) How is a cue really half-spliced and full-spliced? What can the result be between these two splicings in terms of hit?

2) I don't really know where to put this but what constitutes a positive and a negative feedback when you perform a shot? I have a rough idea what a positive feedback is but I really want to hear it from the pros.


Weight (This section probably will be heavily debated)
1) How does a heavier play cue really perform as that to a lighter cue? (E.g 1) Does a heavier cue ensures a more stable stroke because the weight reduces the odds of swaying? (E.g 2) Does a heavier cue produce a better stroke because there's more strength delivered to the CB or a lighter cue because you can stroke faster?

2) Does a heavier/ lighter break cue perform better?

3) How do balance points affect the way you play with the cue? (I.e. Say that rear-weighted vs front weighted cues vs middle balanced cues)


Really appreciate it if someone can answer these qns. :thumbup:

Thanks,
Clarence
 
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Basically you are asking questions about resonance, tones and harmonics... all of these things have a great deal with the feel of a cue but it is the wilderness of cue construction at this point... Most cues are cored today so you can mix and match woods and materials with impunity... Something luthiers have never been able to do..................
 
Also Wood Ferrule

Also don't forget the OB wood ferrule. This gives a different feedback. It is what I play with and I like the feedback. IMO Great questions I'm looking forward to learning from the answers you get. I may borrow those questions for when I interview a cue maker.
 
1. ferrules - the only purpose is to protect the wood of the shaft. There are some very minor differences in the "hit" but very slight. Ivory is softer than phenolics. Mostly, they add mass to the end of the shaft, the "transfer of energy" through the ferrule is irrelevent. Reduced end mass results in lowered deflection, hence low deflection, hollow ended, ferruless shafts.

2. old growth maple - has more growth rings per inch (gri), is tighter, denser, relays energy vibration (harmonics) better than less dense maple. This is no guarantee of "playability".

3. taper - conical taper, i.e. constantly growing diameter, is stiffer than "pro" taper, which is the same shaft diameter for the first 8-20" of the shaft below the tip, and is more flexible.

4. joint - most experts say there is no difference in the "hit", some say ivory is softer and steel is harder and phenolic is inbetween, but everybody says if the joint is taped with duct tape and you hit 10 cues with 10 different joints and pins you couldn't tell them apart. Cuemaker and player personal preference and mental comfort with your cue is important though. Big pins are popular now, but the main purpose is to connect the shaft and butt and they all do that well.

5. butt - a house cue is full spliced. Cut it off just below the points, screw in a handle, then a butt and it is half spliced (simplified). Points are also inlaid and not spliced at all. Very simplified response: splicing is a way of connecting two different woods. Go to cuemaker section and search for detailed answers, much discussion.

6. Feedback to your hands, ears, body, mind, results from the components working together, like a good musical instrument. Personal preference comes with experiencing a variety of different cues. Personally, I like full splice cues, very solid feeling, but love the "hit" of a Black Boar which is cored the full length of the butt with knifed points, and is more "engineered for performance".

I'm no expert, but you can see there's lots of room for discussion of preferences and many opinions. Hope this helps.
:p
 
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[...How does big pin (Radial, 5-6/14) cues differ from small pins ( 3-8/10, 3-8/9) ? Why do people prefer big pin cues?]

Probably just a typo, but 5/16" pins are smaller in diameter than 3/8"...

Curious about the answers to some of your questions too!

bes
 
bes said:
[...How does big pin (Radial, 5-6/14) cues differ from small pins ( 3-8/10, 3-8/9) ? Why do people prefer big pin cues?]

Probably just a typo, but 5/16" pins are smaller in diameter than 3/8"...

Curious about the answers to some of your questions too!

bes
Click to expand...

omg Lol! Thanks for the correction.

Cheers,
Clarence
 
anyone else has good answers out there? Will be great to know more about what we really play with..

Thanks,
Clarence
 
Lexicologist71 said:
I'll answer what I feel I am qualified to answer. Some is opinion. Some are educated guesses. Take it for what it's worth.
-Aging ferrules is primarily for ivory. Synthetics don't require it.
-Ferrules keep the wood from mushrooming. Its position just behind the tip makes it an integral part in how the impact is felt. In my opinion, ferrule or no ferrule is only a change in feel, not playability. It could effect deflection, but concerning spin; I just don't see it.
-Hard Rock Maple (sugar maple) is harder than the soft species of maple (red, silver, big leaf, striped). Therefore it will give a firmer feel.
-A conical taper has much less flex, therefore it will feel firmer upon impact because there is less energy lost to shaft flex.
-The cueball has no idea what kind of joint your cue has, if you're bending your wrist, or even looking at it. The math that figures how much spin you're going to get for a certain hit on the ball has no slot for joint construction. Joint type is feel and preference. Time of contact has nothing to do with spin. If you could get the tip to stay in contact for 5 seconds, would you get more spin? NO, because the cue would be sliding in order to keep contact. That's only a stop shot. It is eccentric impacts that cause spin.
-pin choice is often made depending on machining difficulties. Some pins are just easier to install and maintain quality. Pins that are actually designed to take torque are not as easy to install straight.
-splicing has been heavily discussed recently.
-playing cue weight is being discussed now.
-lighter break cues perform better due to higher cue stick speeds.
-balance is player preference
Click to expand...

Answer from Lexicologist71 @ the ask the cuemaker section. Thanks!

Feel free to add your replies =)
 
arknova said:
Hi,

this thread is for those who really have an idea what's going on with the construction mechanics of a pool cue, I hope I don't get replies like "it's all the same". I'm looking for knowledgeable answers thanks :D


Ferrule
1) What's the difference between an ivory ferrule and the usual mircata? (perhaps describe in the form of hit)

2) I do see that some people store their ferrules until it's aged before they put it to use. Does the aging process help in any way to stiffen the hit?

3) These days I do see some people constructing ferruleless shafts. A ferrule is suppose to help the transfer of energy from the stick to the CB right? So if it's ferruleless, shouldn't it affect the playability rather than help it?

Shaft
1) Why is the hit of an old growth maple shaft > hard rock maple > normal maple?

2) How does a conical shaped taper differ in hit as a regular pro taper?

Joint
1) I heard that SS joint will hit stiffer than that of a phenolic joint but a phenolic joint tends to produce more English (due to the fact that its joint material is softer, hence bends more during hit and the longer the contact, the more english is produced as a result). Is this true?

2) How does big pin (Radial, ( 3-8/10, 3-8/9)) cues differ from small pins (5/16x14) ? Why do people prefer big pin cues?

3) How does a SS to wood joint differ from SS to SS joint / SS to Brass joint? (Hit, construction etc)

Butt
1) How is a cue really half-spliced and full-spliced? What can the result be between these two splicings in terms of hit?

2) I don't really know where to put this but what constitutes a positive and a negative feedback when you perform a shot? I have a rough idea what a positive feedback is but I really want to hear it from the pros.


Weight (This section probably will be heavily debated)
1) How does a heavier play cue really perform as that to a lighter cue? (E.g 1) Does a heavier cue ensures a more stable stroke because the weight reduces the odds of swaying? (E.g 2) Does a heavier cue produce a better stroke because there's more strength delivered to the CB or a lighter cue because you can stroke faster?

2) Does a heavier/ lighter break cue perform better?

3) How do balance points affect the way you play with the cue? (I.e. Say that rear-weighted vs front weighted cues vs middle balanced cues)


Really appreciate it if someone can answer these qns. :thumbup:

Thanks,
Clarence
Click to expand...

I'd like to see more response to these questions as well, but "hit" is very
subjective. There should be some baseline, since what one person thinks is a soft or hard hit is likely very different than what others think. So basically, there should be a baseline for a "medium hit".
 
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