Does the butt affect deflection?

TheThaiger

TheThaiger

Banned
I have a LD shaft on my McDermott butt, which is very light. It deflects quite a lot, probably as much as the shaft it came with. When I put the LD shaft on my friend's much heavier butt, it appears to deflect much less.

Is this my imagination or does the weight of the butt alter how much a cue deflects?
 
TheThaiger said:
I have a LD shaft on my McDermott butt, which is very light. It deflects quite a lot, probably as much as the shaft it came with. When I put the LD shaft on my friend's much heavier butt, it appears to deflect much less.

Is this my imagination or does the weight of the butt alter how much a cue deflects?
Click to expand...
Butt weight should have no impact on squirt (CB deflection). For more info, including demonstrations, see:

However, the weight difference could result in faster or slow CB speeds than you expect, and CB speed can affect swerve. For more info and demonstrations, see:

Regards,
Dave
 
TheThaiger said:
I have a LD shaft on my McDermott butt, which is very light. It deflects quite a lot, probably as much as the shaft it came with. When I put the LD shaft on my friend's much heavier butt, it appears to deflect much less.

Is this my imagination or does the weight of the butt alter how much a cue deflects?
Click to expand...

Yes.
Very much.
Alot of people don't think so, but it does.


chris G
 
it does. a cue acts different depending on where its weighted. example. a forward weighted compared to a rear weighted cue. a rear wieghted cue will hit better; i will argue this til the day i die. also, a "balanced" cue is a fallacy. the natural taper of a cue makes this extremely difficult. the facts are: the balance pointS matter. where your actually hitting the cue ball and your contact with the actual cue ball.

the right weight cue and a good tip or the tip that you like the best seem to matter the most.
 
In my experience,the handle can have a large impact on the magnitude of vibration in a cue shaft.In some cases, can cause either a double hit or unintended ball movement.
 
jcs003 said:
it does. a cue acts different depending on where its weighted. example. a forward weighted compared to a rear weighted cue. a rear wieghted cue will hit better; i will argue this til the day i die. also, a "balanced" cue is a fallacy. the natural taper of a cue makes this extremely difficult. the facts are: the balance pointS matter. where your actually hitting the cue ball and your contact with the actual cue ball.

the right weight cue and a good tip or the tip that you like the best seem to matter the most.
Click to expand...

My cue - the one the shaft defects a lot on - is light and evenly balanced. My friend's cue - which doesn't deflect much - is heavy and rear weighed, so that would back up what you are saying.

So, I'm thinking, should I bung a heavy weight bolt in mine, or doesn't it work like that?
 
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This girl would sometimes come into the pool hall. I am pretty sure she was a stripper and if she wasn't she sure wore the uniform. A butt crack low mini-skirt every time she came in with hooker shoes. Her butt caused a lot of deflection.....sometimes I wouldn't even hit the ball I was aiming at.
 
TheThaiger said:
I have a LD shaft on my McDermott butt, which is very light. It deflects quite a lot, probably as much as the shaft it came with. When I put the LD shaft on my friend's much heavier butt, it appears to deflect much less.

Is this my imagination or does the weight of the butt alter how much a cue deflects?
Click to expand...
It's your imagination, and it's easy to prove.

Place two striped balls on the center line, one on the foot spot and the other on the center spot, with their stripes vertical and parallel with the center line.

Shoot the ball on the foot spot at the other ball, aiming through the edge of the first ball's stripe directly at the same edge of the second ball's stripe (i.e., shifted parallel from center ball). The stripes ensure that you offset the same amount from center each time and don't compensate for squirt.

Shoot firmly to avoid swerve and notice where the "object ball" hits the end rail (it will be somewhere to the side of the center diamond because of squirt). Shoot a bunch of shots with each butt and use the average result (to correct for small stroke errors).

If the balls hit at about the same (average) place on the end rail, then the amount of squirt is the same.

Speculation gets you nowhere. Test.

pj
chgo
 
gunzby said:
This girl would sometimes come into the pool hall. I am pretty sure she was a stripper and if she wasn't she sure wore the uniform. A butt crack low mini-skirt every time she came in with hooker shoes. Her butt caused a lot of deflection.....sometimes I wouldn't even hit the ball I was aiming at.
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Weapon of mass distraction.:thumbup:

I think a different (cue) butt will have negligible effect on cue ball squirt.
 
in short no

excellent post by Mr. Johnson i have done this test i have 2 cues a 17oz. and a 19.2oz. and have done this test using the exact same 2 shafts and found no difference in deflection on avg. between the 2.
 
I have a 5/16-18 shaft that I've used on alot of different butts. They all play exactly the same.
 
You have to be careful when gauging cue ball deflection. It's not always cue ball squirt that you have to be concerned with. The swerve is of great importance as well. Often times, the cue ball swerve can cancel out the cue ball squirt, depending upon how fast and where you strike the cue ball.

A heavier cue stick MIGHT appear to provide a little greater swerve on some shots and in effect, provide less "effective" cue ball deflection.
Experience is a good teacher but you need to know the details about "squirt" and "swerve". The two effects are sometimes called "squerve".
 
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JoeyA said:
You have to be careful when gauging cue ball deflection. It's not always cue ball squirt that you have to be concerned with. The swerve is of great importance as well. Often times, the cue ball swerve can cancel out the cue ball squirt, depending upon how and where you strike the cue ball.

A heavier cue stick MIGHT appear to provide a little greater swerve on some shots and in effect, provide less "effective" cue ball deflection.
Experience is a good teacher but you need to know the details about "squirt" and "swerve". The two effects are sometimes called "squerve".
Click to expand...
Good post Joey. Although, I think some people might get more CB speed than expected with a heavier cue, in which case the swerve would be delayed, create more "effective CB deflection" (not less).

If people want more info, all of the effects are listed and demonstrated here (see the videos and items 1-14 in the list):

Regards,
Dave
 
Past experience tells me it 'may' or it may not, there are other variables to be considered.

I think a change in the overall weight of the cue can have an effect and I believe the joint type (material/pin/etc) can have some impact as well.
 
dr_dave said:
Good post Joey. Although, I think some people might get more CB speed than expected with a heavier cue, in which case the swerve would be delayed, create more "effective CB deflection" (not less).

If people want more info, all of the effects are listed and demonstrated here (see the videos and items 1-14 in the list):

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm, I thought it was "written in stone", that you can get faster cue speed with lighter cues, not heavier cues.

Also, I was thinking that while using side spin and a heavier cue angled in a downward direction, that the amount of swerve would be increased as compared to a lighter cue (with same mass at cue tip).
 
JoeyA said:
dr_dave said:
Good post Joey. Although, I think some people might get more CB speed than expected with a heavier cue, in which case the swerve would be delayed, create more "effective CB deflection" (not less).

If people want more info, all of the effects are listed and demonstrated here (see the videos and items 1-14 in the list):
Click to expand...
Hmmmmm, I thought it was "written in stone", that you can get faster cue speed with lighter cues, not heavier cues.
Click to expand...
What stones have you been reading lately? :grin:

Actually, I would agree with this; however, what really matters is CB speed ... not cue speed. A heavier cue moving slower can result in more CB speed than a lighter cue moving faster. CB speed depends on cue momentum (product of mass and speed) at impact, not just cue speed.

Now, if you are talking about power shots, whether a heavier or lighter cue will result in more CB speed will depend a lot on the individual (see cue weight for more info).

JoeyA said:
Also, I was thinking that while using side spin and a heavier cue angled in a downward direction, that the amount of swerve would be increased as compared to a lighter cue (with same mass at cue tip).
Click to expand...
Why do you think this?

Regards,
Dave
 
Think finishing hammer vs sledge hammer when hitting down on nails... I think he is saying the heavier hammer(cue) will drive the nail (cueball) deeper into the cloth..... IE Why are masse cues 24-27oz if this is not somewhat true??
 
dr_dave said:
What stones have you been reading lately? :grin:

Actually, I would agree with this; however, what really matters is CB speed ... not cue speed. A heavier cue moving slower can result in more CB speed than a lighter cue moving faster. CB speed depends on cue momentum (product of mass and speed) at impact, not just cue speed.

Now, if you are talking about power shots, whether a heavier or lighter cue will result in more CB speed will depend a lot on the individual (see cue weight for more info).

Why do you think this?

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

It's been a while since I played with a 21 ounce cue but I seem to remember how I didn't have to use much "strength/muscle" to spin the cue ball with the heavy cue as compared to lighter cues. I suppose this compliments what you say about cue momentum and not necessarily cue speed.
 
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