90 degrees from what?

[Wolven]

Wolven...Agreed! I actually want my students to learn to get the cuetip no more than 1/4" to 1/2" away from the CB. Otherwise how are you really going to know where you want to strike it?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Definitely. At first it is kind of strange and once in a while the CB is touched. I too made a few players move closer to the CB, at first they resist but when they see the difference there is no going back.

 

[Donny Lutz]

level cue?

I'm not so sure the answer is one or the other. It seems to me that there are too many angles of approach and therefore too many variations for the 90 degrees to apply universaly from the shoulder to the elbow to the wrist. I find that most of my shots are with a level cue and a 90 degree approach, from the elbow to the table bed, offers the highest level of precision. Others may have a different viewpoint.

Steeper angles may afford a more effective approach with the 90 degree angle from the shoulder to elbow to the wrist offering sufficient angle to allow for the stroke movement since the steeper the angle the smaller the range of motion between the upper arm and forearm....but not necessarily the most efficient stroke.

In its extreme, the masse shot is at the maximum level of elevation and there is no 90 degree correlation between either of the two options.
If we are given only two options and asked to pick one, we limit all possibilities that may apply to the other option. Perhaps both options apply in different scenarios.

Level cue?
Actually, very few shots allow you to use a perfectly level stroke (parallel to the table surface). Either object balls are in the way or a rail is in the way. The idea is to come as close to level as is practical. I find that the 90% between forearm and cue works on all but a small percentage of shots. There are exceptions to every rule, but there are certainly rules that are generally tried and true. I teach addressing the cue ball with the tip within 1/2", and the 90% rule in effect at that point. Regarding the choice between the bent or locked arm, I've seen players use either rather at random, with a variety of degrees of "bend" for the same shot. Why learn to make a particular shot with a variety of bridge arm positions? It just clutters and confuses your memory bank. I teach the locked position, with the bent arm only for situations such as over a ball, bridge hand just in front of a ball, and sometimes when you just need to nudge the cue ball with a very short stroke.
Regarding the critics and cynics who seem to dislike instructors, there are teachers who are specialists, those who are comprehensive and those who choose to teach students at particular levels of play. Personally, I gave my first lesson in 1965 as the manager of a billiard center. I gave a young woman a lesson in 1985, and she won the first tournament she ever played in the next day. But I was still not qualified as an instructor and did not become certified until 1993. Like most serious instructors, I have continued to learn from observation, books, videos, magazines, other instructors and personal experimentation. I think I've become a bit better as a teacher as the years pass, though I do not play as well as I did in my prime. I've had students from raw beginners to the professional; I think I do best with serious intermediate players, as my "specialties" are cue ball control and shot selection. I always urge my pupils to take lessons from more than one instructor, as we all have different styles and methods of teaching.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor

 

[rrick33]

90 degrees

It seems there are two basic perspectives on this point......90 degrees vertical to the table surface or floor and 90 degrees relative to the position of the upper arm and forearm as you address the cue ball.

The more jacked-up you are over a shot, the more critical it is to maintain the 90 degrees from ther upper arm and forarm to allow for the necessary range of motion. If the lower arm is vertical to the floor you have limited motion to trigger the stroke.

80% of shots are not jacked up and allowing the forarm to maintain a vertical relationship to the floor on level to fairly level shots has its advantages.

Both options are viable.

What is really being debated here is how these approaches affect the accuracy of contact with the cue ball. Only a few have emphasized how the bridge placement is critical in establishing accuracy when approaching the shot from different angles. I sense that many may be arguing their position on principles that have no bearing on the real issue. They are centered on arm position when it is the position of the cue stick within the pendulum as it approaches the cue ball that is really under debate. The arm position is relative to the angle and range of motion necessary to execute a relaxed stroke....nothing more. 90 degrees is a terciary aspect at best given all the elements required to execute the shot properly.

The biggest factor regarding proper contact with the cue ball is determining how far the cue tip is from the cue ball within the pendulum at any given moment. Experienced players will adjust the placement of their bridge hand to allow for correct contact based on the angle of approach. Therefore, both 90 degree approaches have merit to the experienced player who can compensate for different angles of approach.

 

[pool101]

This might help..I think these 2 can play a little.

 

[walrus_3d]

This might help..I think these 2 can play a little.
View attachment 198345
View attachment 198346

yeah, that didn't help at all. 90% of the posters are saying the forearm should be 90 degrees off the cue, and both these guys are going to be more than 90 degrees at impact. But thanks :thumbup:

I think the pictures would indicate that you don't want to be 90 degrees from anything. Their forearms are vertical about an inch or two prior to impact, and they're well past 90 degrees from the upper arm at impact.

 

[Neil]

......................

 

[ShootingArts]

what I found too

This might help..I think these 2 can play a little.
View attachment 198345
View attachment 198346

Note my first post. Your images document what I found to be true of most pro's, even most instructors I have observed. The 90 degree fore arm to cue relationship is much more theory than practice. I'd bet that quite a few more people think they adhere to the 90 degree practice than actually do though. Doesn't really matter, the object is to put the ball in the hole no style points awarded!

Hu