I believe you are fighting an un-winable battle Sean that is not worth the time or effort.
John Brumback's "Bank Pool Secrets of a World Champion"
- Thread starter lfigueroa
- Start date
I believe you are fighting an un-winable battle Sean that is not worth the time or effort.
Joe T
Well-known member
The price falls and the DVDs you see won't be made by people who actually know what they're doing. Sure they'll be those gr8 markteering guys who "think" they know how you should be spending your time but those dvds will end up costing you more time & money and will hurt our game even more.
So what is a fair price for expert knowledge? In any area of expertise?
Do you honestly think it's worth the time and the trouble for someone of johns stature and experience to simply get the expenses covered? The man deserves to make a little something for his efforts and wisdom. Or, if you'd rather, he could just keep his wisdom to himself, and no one would learn anything new. Or you could magically create Utopia, where none of this matters, and we all sing kumbaya together around the pool table.
And don't try to downplay the real production costs of something like this. Not even accounting for the equipment outlay, the materials and creating them has a fixed value. You automatically assume its a couple of dollars for the dvds, and their jackets. Perhaps, when purchased in sufficient quantity, but as you already pointed out, they aren't going to sell thousands of these. (Sadly). Then there is the cost of duplication, artwork, and that's before we even get into shipping and distribution. Costs add up.
You are stirring stuff, for the sake of it. As usual. This time you're even against Lou...
Well, its good to see everyone is still partying on.
As most of you know, I've been posting on pool forums for a long time and I would just like to share one observation and you guys can get back to your fun.
Back on RSB, from time to time, we'd get the occasional pool troll, just like any other forum. But then, every once in a while, we'd get the British Pool Troll. (Sometimes they'd show up in a pair and work as a tag team.) These guys were special and loved to get everyone all riled up using all the usual tricks. (One of their favorites was *insisting* that you couldn't transfer spin to an object ball and getting the regulars all pissed off.) I've been reading Thaiger's posts for a while now and he is, IMO, most clearly and somewhat obviously a classic British Pool Troll. He is here with one purpose only and that is to get as many of your panties in bunches as he possibly can. Whether here or in a CTE thread, that's how he get's his jollies.
So all of youze guys that have been sucked in can continue to engage and entertain him. You will never win and all he is doing is laughing his ass off at getting you all worked up and in a lather. I hope you enjoy being his beeches
Lou Figueroa
seen this act before
As most of you know, I've been posting on pool forums for a long time and I would just like to share one observation and you guys can get back to your fun.
Back on RSB, from time to time, we'd get the occasional pool troll, just like any other forum. But then, every once in a while, we'd get the British Pool Troll. (Sometimes they'd show up in a pair and work as a tag team.) These guys were special and loved to get everyone all riled up using all the usual tricks. (One of their favorites was *insisting* that you couldn't transfer spin to an object ball and getting the regulars all pissed off.) I've been reading Thaiger's posts for a while now and he is, IMO, most clearly and somewhat obviously a classic British Pool Troll. He is here with one purpose only and that is to get as many of your panties in bunches as he possibly can. Whether here or in a CTE thread, that's how he get's his jollies.
So all of youze guys that have been sucked in can continue to engage and entertain him. You will never win and all he is doing is laughing his ass off at getting you all worked up and in a lather. I hope you enjoy being his beeches
Lou Figueroa
seen this act before
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TheThaiger
Banned
Pool is dying, sean. You MUST have noticed.
This is nothing but price gouging. In Thailand, a place John Barton knows well, despite never actually being there, they have a rather strange approach to economics - when times are good, and customers are plentiful, they drop their prices. When times are hard, and customers few and far between, they raise their prices, reasoning they'll gouge what they can out of the few that remain. They squeeze the pips out of those that are still in the game. What they have, they hold.
We in the west take a different view - during hard times, we drop our prices, to appear more attractive to new customers. Our competitiveness increases, and we offer better VFM in an attempt to improve our fortunes.
This is Thai economics, and completely ruinous. Squeeze what you can out of who you can, and damn the consequences.
TheThaiger
Banned
TheThaiger
Banned
That's a valid counter-argument - thanks.
TheThaiger
Banned
I'm against anyone who's not acting in the interests of pool.
You miss the point. A music CD that's good and a music CD that's bad will cost pretty much the same to make. They both cost roughly the same at retail. The artist makes money if it's successful. If JB's DVD is good, it will sell more than someone else's banking DVD, thereby giving him his reward for expert knowledge.
You lot want to reward JB for his contribution to pool. That's fine, but sent him a donation privately if you want to, then ask him to make a DVD more reflective of the cost of production.
Leave emotional attachment out of it and think with your head rather than your heart.
TheThaiger
Banned
Well, its good to see everyone is still partying on.
As most of you know, I've been posting on pool forums for a long time and I would just like to share one observation and you guys can get back to your fun.
Back on RSB, from time to time, we'd get the occasional pool troll, just like any other forum. But then, every once in a while, we'd get the British Pool Troll. (Sometimes they'd show up in a pair and work as a tag team.) These guys were special and loved to get everyone all riled up using all the usual tricks. (One of their favorites was *insisting* that you couldn't transfer spin to an object ball and getting the regulars all pissed off.) I've been reading Thaiger's posts for a while now and he is, IMO, most clearly and somewhat obviously a classic British Pool Troll. He is here with one purpose only and that is to get as many of your panties in bunches as he possibly can. Whether here or in a CTE thread, that's how he get's his jollies.
So all of youze guys that have been sucked in can continue to engage and entertain him. You will never win and all he is doing is laughing his ass off at getting you all worked up and in a lather. I hope you enjoy being his beeches
Lou Figueroa
seen this act before
I've made over 2000 "troll" posts, apparently, yet you mention this only now, in one of your threads?
I wonder why?
ps, I should report you for racism.
Wasting your time, Joe.
TheThaiger
Banned
Really? See post #107.
Tim:
The problem is that your economics lesson won't -- and most importantly, can't -- work. In order for the "supply and demand" economics to work, you have to have the critical mass of customers to tip the balance in favor of "a good product getting its due even at a cheap price." Pool doesn't have those numbers. Do you really think comparing a music CD/DVD -- with an expected audience of perhaps millions -- to a pool instructional DVD -- with an expected audience of, at best, a couple hundred -- is a fair comparison? Do you really think pool has that kind of critical mass numbers behind it for this kind of economics to come into play? I don't think so.
In order for pool101 and John Brumback to recoup expenses incurred during the creation of this DVD (which are not cheap, I assure you), they have to charge a price that reflects the lack of critical mass numbers (i.e. audience). I do trust that pool101 and John made the correct decision.
It's not a question of gouging, Tim. It's a question of equitable price vs. the size of the expected customer base (which, in pool, is unfortunately very small compared to the music industry).
The sooner you get away from these conspiracy theories, the better.
-Sean
The costs in general will cost the same to produce music cd's, perhaps. In established facilities, by established companies.
What we are discussing here is a whole different animal. Pool dvds are niche to begin with. Created by individuals, not corporate entities. With no bulk purchasing power. Each person attempting it has to negotiate all of the associated materials and costs. It isn't as simple (or as cheap) as you try to make it.
Lou certainly described you quite well, and having observed you in action for some time, this isn't news to me. It is rather ironic that you have run up against him, for a change.
I've made over 2000 "troll" posts, apparently, yet you mention this only now, in one of your threads?
I wonder why?
ps, I should report you for racism.
I wasn't aware there were enough British Pool Trolls to constitute a race, lmao
You little buggers have been busy.
Lou Figueroa
who knew
TheThaiger
Banned
But why doesn't pool have "those numbers"? It certainly used to!
There is something fundamentally different about pool, I think. The snooker world doesn't exist in this orbit at all.
The pool players' psyche is dark and deep...
TheThaiger
Banned
No one knows. That's why there are us teachers...
Bingo. You probably explained better what I was trying to say with the "critical mass" numbers thing in the post above yours. The costs are, of course, proportional to the entity producing them. Large corporate entity? Cheap -- pennies-a-piece. Individual? List price -- whatever that is, which is certainly not pennies. Add to that the fact that the audience buying these are a mere fraction -- whitenoise-level compared to the music industry -- that the producers have to find a way to recoup their expenses on. Otherwise, what's the use of even putting out the product if you *know* you're going to lose your pants on?
I won't comment on Tim's action on these boards, but I will say this: he's tenacious to his beliefs and expresses them, which, no matter what we think of them, is an admirable trait to have.
-Sean
TheThaiger
Banned
This isn't about JB's DVD. I appreciate the difficulties and understand why it's priced as it is. This is wider and deeper, about why we, as players, will pay anything for our fix, and what consequences that generates.
If $50 is reasonable, why not $100? $300? I hear there's a REALLY good one coming out on aiming systems for $1000 - wanna pay your deposit now?