Smoking at tournament matches

[LoVe4DaGaMe]

Welcome to the free market system. If there is demand, someone will fill it. If you see demand, and no one has filled it yet, then open your own business and run it how you see fit or quit crying.

My nearest pool hall is an hour away each direction. It sucks and it annoys me having to drive that far. So should I start whining for a law requiring every town to have a pool hall? Or should I just suck it up and drive or if it bothers me enough, open my own pool hall? Which is the more rational response to market conditions?


Mp3s make the drive not so bad, by the way.

I would be okay with your scenario.. if it made sense.. You are comparing people being forced to either deal with the smoke, or not go there.. to a pool hall not existing within an hour of your area..?

Ehhh... So... Anyone else following this concept as well as I am..? :rotflmao1: :rotflmao1: :rotflmao1: :rotflmao1: :rotflmao1: :rotflmao1:

 

[KMRUNOUT]

IT'S SIMPLE REALLY!

If I own a house or a business I have a right to make the rules. So, if I own a poolroom and decide that I want to allow smoking(or not), the tournament directors, fans, and participants can decide if they want to go there or not.

Anyone else's thoughts are only opinions and do not count.

This is the most concise and classic example of the "logic" against smoking bans. State a complete falsehood as an absolute truth, then say if you have a different opinion it is irrelevant. Bravo! These threads never make it up to double digit pages without this level of input from the participants. "It's simple really" lol...It sure is. It sure is.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Rich93]

I have "axed" this in a different thread but will also "axe" it here....First I agree...smoking is bad for you, I SMOKE wish I didn't but anyway....up until 4 or 5 years ago "smoking" was allowed in 99% of the rooms in the country. This is not a question for the kids (25 yrs old or younger), this is for the grown ups on AZB..."How did you guys ever learn to play pool...when as you were coming up in the pool world...you had to suffer through SMOKE FILLED pool rooms...to learn how to play"? Now I'm not being a smart ass but if you were playing lets say in 1980, did you know that if you just held out til the 21st century smoking would be banned in most places? Why would you not have taken up...lets say "synchronized swimming" (not alot of smokers in that pool) instead of "pocket billiards" in 1980? Where you guys just playing at your own houses (kings of your non-smoking basement) honing your skills waiting for the "BAN" to take effect, so you could unleash your smoke free skills on the pool world? You guys are obviously way ahead of the "curve", what else should I be watching for???

John, you're a relatively new poster and I think you will soon learn like I did to avoid smoking and aiming threads [then why am I posting in a smoking thread? Because I search for my favorite posters, which include you and Lou].

As a smoker it's impossible for me to read these threads without being made to feel like white trash, so let us avoid them and be happy instead .... because you and I are beyond these debates. We live in the great (broke) state of Illinois and our secondhand smoke is no longer causing fatal diseases, watery eyes, smelly clothes, smelly cue cases (for real, there was a thread about smelly cue cases), etc., etc.

I'm ignoring, of course, third hand smoke - those nasty tar and nicotine particles that cling to our clothes and fingers, a few molecules of which just might transfer to the rails of the tables that they play on. Studies of this phenom are in progress by the anti-tobacco folks, I understand. But until those studies, which will undoubtedly show harmful effects, are completed, let us enjoy our guilt-free breaks in the great outdoors.

Meet you outside.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

John, you're a relatively new poster and I think you will soon learn like I did to avoid smoking and aiming threads [then why am I posting in a smoking thread? Because I search for my favorite posters, which include you and Lou].

As a smoker it's impossible for me to read these threads without being made to feel like white trash, so let us avoid them and be happy instead .... because you and I are beyond these debates. We live in the great (broke) state of Illinois and our secondhand smoke is no longer causing fatal diseases, watery eyes, smelly clothes, smelly cue cases (for real, there was a thread about smelly cue cases), etc., etc.

I'm ignoring, of course, third hand smoke - those nasty tar and nicotine particles that cling to our clothes and fingers, a few molecules of which just might transfer to the rails of the tables that they play on. Studies of this phenom are in progress by the anti-tobacco folks, I understand. But until those studies, which will undoubtedly show harmful effects, are completed, let us enjoy our guilt-free breaks in the great outdoors.

Meet you outside.

This, on the other hand, is a beautiful example of what I wish all smokers could be like. I am assuming aside for the tongue in cheek ribbing of those concerned about "third hand smoke", that you are serious about the last two lines of your post.

Rep to you sir.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Drew]

I dunno, you tell me, that was just the result of using your logic to stop people from "infringing" on others. My argument is that using good judgement and sensibility, there is nothing wrong with making smokers smoke outside. It improves the health of both the smoker and non-smoker, makes pool more mainstream friendly, and keeps the pool room cleaner. What are the downsides?

There's the problem. What gives you the right to make anyone do anything. Who died and made you king?

The downside is fascism...no big deal, though.

 

[bankshotbo]

There's the problem. What gives you the right to make anyone do anything. Who died and made you king?

The downside is fascism...no big deal, though.

I smoked crack for a couple of years, 10 years ago. Would it have been okay with you if I smoked my rocks and blew the smoke in your face while you are trying to play.

I know this is an extreme example but the idea is the same.

Smokers infringe on people's right to breath clean air.
Sure non-smokers could go somewhere else but this is not the 1970s any more.
Times change, laws change and people change. Nobody is asking the smokers to do anything except maybe live longer and not irritate the rest of us.

 

[Drew]

I smoked crack for a couple of years, 10 years ago. Would it have been okay with you if I smoked my rocks and blew the smoke in your face while you are trying to play.

I know this is an extreme example but the idea is the same.

Smokers infringe on people's right to breath clean air.
Sure non-smokers could go somewhere else but this is not the 1970s any more.
Times change, laws change and people change. Nobody is asking the smokers to do anything except maybe live longer and not irritate the rest of us.

Yes. The idea is the same. And you would not have the chance to blow crack smoke in my face because I wouldn't be in that establishment. I might be crazy, but I don't think most other people would venture into that place either. A business owner who allows crack smoking in his place obviously hates money.

That's not to say he has doesn't have the right to allow such things. He does, and I have no problem with him running his business however he wishes (as stupid as it may be).

Times change and people change. And businesses adapt to those changes to survive. Less people are smoking and catering to non-smokers is becoming more profitable. I suspect the non-smoking trend will happen eventually with or without legislation. But I'm sorry, the government has absolutely no right to facilitate this process via more regulation. This is the single event that is driving America into the poor house.

If you don't like the smoke, take your complaint to the owner. If you think it might be profitable to disallow smoking in a pool room, then by all means, open the room and make your fortune. But never ask the government to trample the rights of another man.

 

[bankshotbo]

Yes. The idea is the same. And you would not have the chance to blow crack smoke in my face because I wouldn't be in that establishment. I might be crazy, but I don't think most other people would venture into that place either. A business owner who allows crack smoking in his place obviously hates money.

That's not to say he has doesn't have the right to allow such things. He does, and I have no problem with him running his business however he wishes (as stupid as it may be).

Times change and people change. And businesses adapt to those changes to survive. Less people are smoking and catering to non-smokers is becoming more profitable. I suspect the non-smoking trend will happen eventually with or without legislation. But I'm sorry, the government has absolutely no right to facilitate this process via more regulation. This is the single event that is driving America into the poor house.

If you don't like the smoke, take your complaint to the owner. If you think it might be profitable to disallow smoking in a pool room, then by all means, open the room and make your fortune. But never ask the government to trample the rights of another man.

So you are saying you wont step foot into an establishment that allows crack smokers to blow smoke all in the faces of the other patrons? I guess you know what the non-smokers are B****ing about then.

The funny part would be where I started pissing and moaning about how my rights were being abused by the government for not allowing me to smoke my stones instead of the reality of it being that the smoke was not only bad for me but all the people around me.

Damned fascists government stepping on my toes again.

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

What you say is spot on as far as old conditions of course. Usually no air conditioning either, maybe a big fan in the wall sucking in dirt and fumes if we were lucky. However I also came up when some cars didn't even have seat belts, respirators were unheard of in the plants, asking for earplugs working two feet away from a 36' long turbine was a sure sign you were a wuss, we hung and stripped asbestos barehanded and blew clouds of it around the shop. Safety harness or belts 200 feet in the air? Something else for sissies!

Of course there was a quick fix for deliberate sharking then as we all know and it didn't involve a TD. I recall somebody that was sharking in a gambling match falling asleep in midgame, nobody noticed.

Things have changed. I don't have the physical tolerance I had as a kid and I'm a hell of a lot smarter too. Weighing all of the costs, not just cash, is why you are unlikely to see or hear of me playing in a tournament. Likely return doesn't justify time and effort especially when I have to plug in several days of hacking and coughing up crap after the event and not getting my work done.

If I hadn't learned a thing in forty years or so it would be sad. There are several books worth of things that I did that showed poor judgment before I turned 25. Hopefully my judgment is a little better now, most of the time!

Hu

oh hell yes, Hu. I completely agree. Personally, as I said, I'm a non-smoker and I don't believe smoking should be allowed in public spaces, which, last time I checked, most pool rooms and tournament venues are. I hate smoke and, just like you have a lower tolerance for it than before. And the recent legal changes which have made the air so much cleaner and smoke free than before have lowered my tolerance for smoke and increased my sensitivity to it.

However, given our general backgrounds on this, I think it's pretty idiotic to get worked up about someone smoking during tournament match. At the DCC this year after a few days the casino pretty much threw its skirt up in the air and gave up enforcing whatever smoking regulations they had and players were smoking everywhere it seemed. I didn't get all worked up about it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

John, you're a relatively new poster and I think you will soon learn like I did to avoid smoking and aiming threads [then why am I posting in a smoking thread? Because I search for my favorite posters, which include you and Lou].

As a smoker it's impossible for me to read these threads without being made to feel like white trash, so let us avoid them and be happy instead .... because you and I are beyond these debates. We live in the great (broke) state of Illinois and our secondhand smoke is no longer causing fatal diseases, watery eyes, smelly clothes, smelly cue cases (for real, there was a thread about smelly cue cases), etc., etc.

I'm ignoring, of course, third hand smoke - those nasty tar and nicotine particles that cling to our clothes and fingers, a few molecules of which just might transfer to the rails of the tables that they play on. Studies of this phenom are in progress by the anti-tobacco folks, I understand. But until those studies, which will undoubtedly show harmful effects, are completed, let us enjoy our guilt-free breaks in the great outdoors.

Meet you outside.

Rich, John is an old internet warrior (and a great one at that). He's just a little more discriminating nowadays about his engagements .

Lou Figueroa

 

[chefjeff]

So you support discrimination. I got it.

Your standard comes from property rights? You think discrimination is a right? You would probably be sore to learn that there has been much progress made in the last 50 years or so called the Civil Rights Act, ADA, etc. not to mention building, health, and safety codes which prevent owners from discriminating as they would like despite it being their property.

I see you have taken your own advide to heart. 22,000 posts on a pool forum and I would guess the vast majority of it has nothing to do with pool. You say there are wise people on NPR? I say that is not a wise use of your time.

You, too, discriminate. From your post above the one quoted:

I dunno, you tell me, that was just the result of using your logic to stop people from "infringing" on others. My argument is that using good judgement and sensibility, there is nothing wrong with making smokers smoke outside. It improves the health of both the smoker and non-smoker, makes pool more mainstream friendly, and keeps the pool room cleaner. What are the downsides?

Not discriminating is deadly.

No need to guess about my posts. They're there for the reading in both NPR and on the MF.

Civil Rights legislation...golly, I must've missed that one when I witnessed it firsthand back in the 60's. golly gee

When you're ready for an honest discussion, come on over to the "dark" side of AZ, as I suggested and we can have a real discussion about such things. I bet we all learn something from that. Until then, I think we're just mucking up Joey's thread about sharking via smoking.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Red Shoes]

OK Rich....I'm not going to enter the "fray". It was just that these "non-smoking" threads always mention how the "non-smoker" becomes totally non-functional (unable to play, eat, sleep, copulate etc..etc..) in a room where someone is (or has been) smoking. I was just a bit mystified by their ability to "play" being that up until a few years ago...it was allowed. So I assumed they either played at home (not venturing in to pool rooms) or held their breath (which shows me the difference between a non-smoker and "we" on the dark side as far as lung capacity) while in a pool room. I just think it would be better if they just stated the REAL reason which is...."I put up with smoking for decades while it was legal...disregarding my health, appetite, vision, copulation etc..etc..and now it is illegal and I don't have to put up with it no more...the LAW is on my side now "smokers"...how do you like it nah nah! nah!". If somebody just stated it that way (including the "nah! nah! nah!"), I would not of commented on the thread. But people acting as if they have never been around cigarette smoke in a poolroom is BS. So for now Rich, you and I will just have to be content meeting "outside" (15 feet away from a door or window is the way the Illinois Law reads). P.S. bring a lighter. (LOU...say hello to the lovely Gail, hope she is feeling well...I got your six). JL

 

[The Chinchilla]

OK Rich....I'm not going to enter the "fray". It was just that these "non-smoking" threads always mention how the "non-smoker" becomes totally non-functional (unable to play, eat, sleep, copulate etc..etc..) in a room where someone is (or has been) smoking. I was just a bit mystified by their ability to "play" being that up until a few years ago...it was allowed. So I assumed they either played at home (not venturing in to pool rooms) or held their breath (which shows me the difference between a non-smoker and "we" on the dark side as far as lung capacity) while in a pool room. I just think it would be better if they just stated the REAL reason which is...."I put up with smoking for decades while it was legal...disregarding my health, appetite, vision, copulation etc..etc..and now it is illegal and I don't have to put up with it no more...the LAW is on my side now "smokers"...how do you like it nah nah! nah!". If somebody just stated it that way (including the "nah! nah! nah!"), I would not of commented on the thread. But people acting as if they have never been around cigarette smoke in a poolroom is BS. So for now Rich, you and I will just have to be content meeting "outside" (15 feet away from a door or window is the way the Illinois Law reads). P.S. bring a lighter. (LOU...say hello to the lovely Gail, hope she is feeling well...I got your six). JL

Yes, but, respectfully, smoking should have never been legal (in public). We know that now. I confuse things as a pool room isn't really "public," or maybe it is to some. In any case, the real point here is, it would be like if we used carcinogen chemical X to preserve food years ago, and then research showed it to cause cancer. How can you just keep letting them preserve food with it? You can't. That is exactly what is going on here, you can't just let people keep on using these things, no matter how long you did it with impunity, that doesn't make you right now. Smoking should be relegated to inside homes, private areas (which a pool hall may or may not be) etc. Out of sheer curiosity, how do you personally cope with a 3 year old passing by and inhaling your smoke, are you 100% cool with that? If so, why? What if this same kid just happens to pass you every day, or even all day. Still cool with it? What is your answer? What if your smoke from your condo vents into adjacent condos (the venting and air flow in condos is amazing, anything can happen) and into a baby's lungs every day, cool with that?? These are honest questions i'm wondering if you are ok with the very real world consequences of your habit on others. People want to rationalize, this whole notion that your smoke just goes straight up and is never heard from again is just wrong.

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[Red Shoes]

Dear Chinchilla....I for one second am not going to try to say that smoking has ANY redeeming qualities (short of psychological). When I started smoking (a gazillion years ago) everybody smoked. Cigarette commercials in magazines or on our black and white 12 inch TV concluded with a guy in a white lab coat (looking like a Dr.) saying "and they are good for your throat too"! Anyhow, what should "have been" legal or illegal should be taken up in an alternate history site. As far as how I would handle 3 year old kids passing by me and my cigarette....well, I try to stay away from 3 year old kids. I don't think they should be in my pool room (even though I have a restaurant/bar license and they are allowed when they are accompanied by an adult). As far as "should smoking be allowed in private homes"? Right now it is legal, someday (probably soon) it won't be. Do I think a 3 year old would contract cancer because his next door neighbor in the condo building smoked? Your kidding right??? No, I think the "little bundle of joy" will be just fine. Probably he will develop "psychological" problems later in life because he had to live in an apartment (or condo) while all his friends lived in smoke/crime free rural America like the "Waltons" or in "Mayberry". I think that years from now (after I'm dead from smoking), many things your doing for your "little bundle of joy" will be found to have been bad for him. You don't feed this kid "twinkies" do you??? Also you were supposed to conclude your statement with "nah! nah! nah! I'm going to my SMOKE FREE poolroom now to open it (later I will wait outside for Rich to bring the lighter). Have a Nice Day!

 

[champ2107]

i dont think this thread is about anti smoking anymore...especially for Neil.

 

[JoeyA]

No smoking during tournament matches.

i dont think this thread is about anti smoking anymore...especially for Neil.

This thread has taken on a life of its own. It was just supposed to be about not smoking during a tournament pool match, not the discussion of "A Universe From Nothing". But anyway, it's interesting to see what others think.

I have enough opinions and perspectives to go to the next step.

The next step is to create a publication that encourages that end.

The final step will be distribution of that publication. If anyone is interested in distributing the publication to the proper authorities, send me a PM with your email address and I will send you a copy to do so when it is completed.

Thanks for your perspectives.

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[pt109]

I got no problem not smoking around non smokers.
Smells are particulate....those odors are particles entering your system.

But like Neil says, car exhaust and cologne from metro-sexuals are
invading my system too.

So we all should be more tolerant and considerate, cause we're all
sharing everything.
I was smoking on a sidewalk once and a cigarette nazi 10 feet down-wind
was waving his arms around like a helicopter....meanwhile, cars, trucks, and
buses were whizzing past him....try another planet, buddy.

The math says that in the last week you have ingested a molecule
from Julius Caesar's dying breath...and you can't avoid it.

 

[JoeyA]

I got no problem not smoking around non smokers.
Smells are particulate....those odors are particles entering your system.

But like Neil says, car exhaust and cologne from metro-sexuals are
invading my system too.

So we all should be more tolerant and considerate, cause we're all
sharing everything.
I was smoking on a sidewalk once and a cigarette nazi 10 feet down-wind
was waving his arms around like a helicopter....meanwhile, cars, trucks, and
buses were whizzing past him....try another planet, buddy.

The math says that in the last week you have ingested a molecule
from Julius Caesar's dying breath...and you can't avoid it.

Cigarette Nazi........ Lol Helicopter move. More Lol Try another planet... All good stuff.