Myths About Rules/ Bad Habits In 8 Ball

[cfrandy]

I can play by ANY set of rules...if I know what the rules are BEFORE the game begins! The problem with "bar rules" is they are NEVER posted in the bar! I use to be an OTR truck driver and have played in bars and pool rooms in just about every state in the country. There are as many different "bar rules" as there are bars! There is NO "standardized" set of bar rules, but that's ok...I never let "rules" stop me from humiliating my opponent!

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

I'm creating a poster that will debunk/expose myths about the rules of 8 ball as pool hall art...

For the purposes of your poster this might help you organize it. When I discuss rules with someone I've never played before, I break it down like this...

1. How do you determine who has what group?
2. On the break, what happens if you make the 8-ball, scratch, etc.?
3. How do you call shots?
4. Ball in Hand or behind the line? (Discuss whether playing safeties is considered dirty pool or not.)
5. For the win, what happens if you scratch, etc.
6. What if you move a ball?

Fatz

 

[Tominator]

Here's one I never heard before the other night - the eight is neutral and can be used for combos except when you are down to the last ball in your group, in which case you cannot use the eight.

 

[scratchs]

For the purposes of your poster this might help you organize it. When I discuss rules with someone I've never played before, I break it down like this...

1. How do you determine who has what group?
2. On the break, what happens if you make the 8-ball, scratch, etc.?
3. How do you call shots?
4. Ball in Hand or behind the line? (Discuss whether playing safeties is considered dirty pool or not.)
5. For the win, what happens if you scratch, etc.
6. What if you move a ball?

Fatz

Those questions pretty much somes it up...

 

[3kushn]

You bet me to it.
The most ridiculous call,

Me; 8 ball in that corner, "but the 8 grazes the side rail before dropping".
Bar banger; You didn't call the bank off the rail.

Wow I never realize that call was that common. 1 reason I don't play. Hate arguing.

How about an obstructing ball 2 ball widths from the rail and your ball rocks it before going in. DIDN'T CALL THAT KISS. NO GOOD. Who in their right F'n mind would call that kiss. Scotty Beam Me Up!!

 

[Jdale]

8 ball rules

IMHO, rules are for the purpose of making the game fair if are applied the same to all players.
I started playing bar pool in 1963, at that time there were no bar table leagues. In about 1965 a played in the first bar league, I think, in Oakland, Ca. at THE RED VEST on E. 14 St.
Every bar in the league had it's house rules posted and that's what we played by and they were not always the same. After a while the bar leagues started to standardise the rules for the league, when leagues weren't being played posted bar rules were still the law. Why because only a few of the patrons played in leagues.

In those early days of bar pool the rules veried from bar to bar, to name a few.
Make the 8 on the break, you win. Even in league play.
If you made a stripe on the break that's what you had, if you made one of each, the table was open until the next legally pocketed ball by either player.
Slop was the general rule, hit your ball first and if it goes in a hole it counted. It could have jump over the light first, still counted.
Most bars were call pocket 8 ball, some were not, if either way it didn't matter the route the 8 traveled to find the pocket.
Now and then clean eight call pocket was the rule, the clean part mostly to be determinded by your opponent.
Hard eight was another rule you had to watch for. Hard 8 works like this, if you are shooting at the eight and don't contact the eight with the cue ball, you lose game over.
1 & 15 in the opposing sides sometimes but not often
Call pocket or call shot on every ball not very often.
Fouls, pretty much there weren't any, move a ball any ball you made sure your opponent or someone was watching and you put it back.
Any and all disputes were settled by the bartender who would point to the posted rules and say work it out a$$h@#$s.
In the sixties bar pool was loose and fast, gambling the norm from drinks to double & triple digit bets. People still when to bars to cash there paychecks, more than one bar even had cashier cages.
I've seen some fights in bars but never a physical one over a pool game,
maybe I was just lucky.
For all you nits pissing and moaning over Barbox/bar rules or big table rules for that matter. Maybe you should partner up with a friend and take up some other sport with a more standardized set of rules, like golf.

Dale

 

[pwd72s]

In my world, last 40 years or so, 8 ball is ball to pocket. Slop counted on normal balls and you had to hit your ball first, except with open table.
That was the way I read it in the book in the sixties. . .Yeah, the 1960s:grin:

That's the way it oughta be today...the "keep it simple" theory. Less hollering,
more playing, if it were so today.

 

[brophog]

How about an obstructing ball 2 ball widths from the rail and your ball rocks it before going in. DIDN'T CALL THAT KISS. NO GOOD. Who in their right F'n mind would call that kiss. Scotty Beam Me Up!!

One up on that......some will require that everything goes in clean, called or not.

 

[blah blah]

For all you nits pissing and moaning over Barbox/bar rules or big table rules for that matter. Maybe you should partner up with a friend and take up some other sport with a more standardized set of rules, like golf.

Dale

Your post was a very enjoyable read until I got to that line.

 

[tatcat2000]

I read the BCAPL rules for the first time in a while recently (I'm guessing two years). I was impressed by the added details and especially the applied rulings.

Thanks! We're working hard to get up to the equivalent of the USGA's level of 600 pages in "Decisions on the Rules of Golf", but we've got a little way to go yet. But seriously - there are about ten new pages of Applied Rulings in the 2012-2013 edition of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League, which goes ointo effect 6/1/12.

When the BCAPL first started diverging their rules from the BCA/WPA, I thought it was the beginning of a bad thing. I have always felt that it would be nice to have a world standard set of rules that might actually someday be adopted by the masses so as to avoid all the squabbles and stupid rules that you run into as illustrated by this thread.

But at least the BCAPL rules are good, as stated, in as far as their completeness and examples.

Again, thank you. That was the primary goal - maximum clarity, minimum gray.

Here's my question (sorry to go off topic for a moment). What differences exist between the BCA and BCAPL rules? Just asking about rules differences in terms of affecting game play - no need to go into who racks, when can you take a break and things like that.

With respect to the largest difference in the game on the table between BCAPL and WSR, there really is only one - in BCAPL play in 8-Ball a foul on the break is BIH anywhere on the table, as opposed to in the kitchen in WSR.

There are dozens of other smaller differences, mostly centered on the Applied Rulings and the detail of guidance for officials - the removal of the gray I referred to before. But concerning the progress of the game on the table, there are remakably few differences between the rule sets.

Shortly after the release of the new edition in June, a comprehensive document cross-referencing BCAPL rules and WSR will be posted on the BCAPL web site.

thanks you

Your welcomes.

Fatz

:smile:
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net

Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

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[Pre-Flag Master]

With respect to the largest difference in the game on the table between BCAPL and WSR, there really is only one - in BCAPL play in 8-Ball a foul on the break is BIH anywhere on the table, as opposed to in the kitchen in WSR.

So why the change to BIH anywhere?

Shortly after the release of the new edition in June, a comprehensive document cross-referencing BCAPL rules and WSR will be posted on the BCAPL web site.

I look forward to that document. As for the new rules, will they be released a while before taking affect? When?

Thanks for the post Buddy, 'preciate it.

Fatz

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

In about 1965 a played in the first bar league, I think, in Oakland, Ca. at THE RED VEST on E. 14 St.
Every bar in the league had it's house rules posted and that's what we played by and they were not always the same. After a while the bar leagues started to standardise the rules for the league...

Dale

Did these leagues have money payouts?

 

[Jdale]

Did these leagues have money payouts?

It's been along ago but I remember there was suppose to be prize thing.
A new aluminum cue for best shooter in the league and I think a dinner & trophys for the winning team and top players. Cash payout ?????
The guy who orginized the league, about 8/10 bars, 12 weeks long and we paid $3 a week, 5 man teams and got 1 free drink each night. Well the orginizer guy skipped town with all the money we got nothing.
Dale

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

It's been along ago but I remember there was suppose to be prize thing.
A new aluminum cue for best shooter in the league and I think a dinner & trophys for the winning team and top players. Cash payout ?????
The guy who orginized the league, about 8/10 bars, 12 weeks long and we paid $3 a week, 5 man teams and got 1 free drink each night. Well the orginizer guy skipped town with all the money we got nothing.
Dale

See! That's what I'm talking about right there. We need a standardized set of rules about how to live, so $hl+ like that doesn't happen.

Fatz

 

[tatcat2000]

So why the change to BIH anywhere?

Can't answer that completely. Not my department. But at least part of the reason was purportedly to speed up the game. Can't say how much that had to do with it, but at least a little

I look forward to that document. As for the new rules, will they be released a while before taking affect? When?

The new edition is effective 6/1/12. It will not be released until after Nationals. It should go up on the web 6/21 and be mailed to LO's/refs that week. Can't be released before that - too much chance of confusion at Nationals.

Thanks for the post Buddy, 'preciate it.

NP :smile:

..........

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

Shortly after the release of the new edition in June, a comprehensive document cross-referencing BCAPL rules and WSR will be posted on the BCAPL web site.

Is this document available yet? Couldn't find it on the BCAPL web site.

thanks

 

[ENGLISH!]

And WHY would anyone agree to that?

And WHO decided to manipulate the rules like that

And for what reason?

I started hitting balls in the early sixties in the local bowling alley. sometimes there was no one to play. I read the BOOK, COVER TO COVER. Several times, it wasn't that big

WHOINELL DECIDED IT WAS BROKEN??
AND WHOINELL APPOINTED THEM TO FIX??

When it went to leagues & the 'unknowing' general public. The operators did what 'they' thought would limit arguments with no real regard for 'The Game'.

 

[ENGLISH!]

We have the BCA/WPA rules posted on the wall. Getting a beer-box player to read them however can lead to said violence.

I agree with Woof Biscuit.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I forgot about the using the width of the butt when on a rail. We used to play this way when I was a kid.

I once had a guy tell me it was okay to hit the eight ball before hitting your own ball... because the eight ball belongs to neither solids nor stripes... unless of course one player has made all his balls and is currently shooting on the eight. Then it is illegal to hit the eight ball first.

That was very popular back in the day in my area, I have no problem playing that way. At least it has a 'reasonable' logic to support it.

 

[justadub]

Here's one I never heard before the other night - the eight is neutral and can be used for combos except when you are down to the last ball in your group, in which case you cannot use the eight.

This is the rule where I play. It is in the Maine State Eagles Club rules, for tournaments between various Aeries all over the state. Not sure if that applies to official Eagles Club tournaments in other parts of the country or not.

Also, the eight has to go in "clean" meaning it can't touch any other ball. (Rails don't have to be called, this only applies to contact with another ball on the table.) It is called pocket, and open after the break. Actually, not a bad way to play.