Myths About Rules/ Bad Habits In 8 Ball

[lorider]

1a. Make the 8 on the break and scratch, you lose.
1b. Scratch on the break, you lose.
2. People miss hit the cue ball on the break and swipe the cue ball aside so it doesn't hit the rack, and expect to be able to try again.
3. The 8-ball can never be used in a combo or carom, even if not the first ball contacted.
4a. You can play your last ball and the eight and win on the same shot, as long as you call it.
4b. You can play your last ball and the eight and win on the same shot, as long as you call it and the last ball of your group falls before the 8.
5. On the break, if you make a stripe and a solid, you get the group of the ball that fell first.
6a. If you shoot a ball from your group and make the called shot it doesn't count if you also made a ball from the other players group.
6b. If you shoot a ball from your group and make the called shot it doesn't count if you also made a ball from the other players group and that ball fell before your ball.
7. If you make one of the other players balls, it's a foul (this one was from a person that played ball in hand rules )

i am 57 years old and have played in bars all over the southeast since i was 18.

in that time i have only encountered 2 rules on your list. those are #1 and #3 and i have no problem playing by either one of those rules.

as far as the rest on your list goes... well i kinda enjoy walking into a place and beating some one at their own game.

 

[sfleinen]

Ya gotta hear this one!

SkyscraperChris:

The most ridiculous one I've ever heard, and yes, it was in a bar, was when a player was stitched (safed) and had to kick at the ball, if he/she missed the ball completely "but hit three or more rails in the course of the cue ball traveling around the table," that he/she is still at the table (i.e. his/her turn at the table did not end), and he/she could try the shot again from the cue ball's final position.

I'm not kidding. Honest. I had to leave the place, dragging my lower jaw on the ground!

-Sean

 

[LuckedOut]

In Juneau back in the 90's, I sunk 3 stripes on the break at a bar.

I took the solids because they looked better, ran the table, sat down. My opponent said I lost because I was stripes AND I didn't call bank on the 8 ball that grazed the rail on it's way in.

I just laughed and kept on chatting with friends. You can't fix stupid like that.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

BCA rules are the world standardized rules. BCAPL rules are similar, but contain specific differences, for league play.

IMHO the BCAPL rules is actually the best written rule set out there. They are more specific, have fewer grey areas, and include applied rulings.

I read the BCAPL rules for the first time in a while recently (I'm guessing two years). I was impressed by the added details and especially the applied rulings. When the BCAPL first started diverging their rules from the BCA/WPA, I thought it was the beginning of a bad thing. I have always felt that it would be nice to have a world standard set of rules that might actually someday be adopted by the masses so as to avoid all the squabbles and stupid rules that you run into as illustrated by this thread.

But at least the BCAPL rules are good, as stated, in as far as their completeness and examples.

Here's my question (sorry to go off topic for a moment). What differences exist between the BCA and BCAPL rules? Just asking about rules differences in terms of affecting game play - no need to go into who racks, when can you take a break and things like that.

thanks you
Fatz

 

[Ghosst]

Has anyone ever been knifed in your league?

We have the BCA/WPA rules posted on the wall. Getting a beer-box player to read them however can lead to said violence.

 

[blah blah]

Oh believe me, we have more than a few who have played that card numerous times. I've seen more than a couple fist fights and heated arguments over our rules. Yet they keep adding to them and changing them yearly. The funny thing is 96% of the rules changes are made on the spot when a problem arises and someone whines to the league president (everyone has her cell phone, for this reason). For a league that pays absolutely no money, just measly plastic trophies at the end of the year, they take it very serious.

Same thing out here. They add rules on the spot, based on single angry situations. I really think they are based on the competitive desires of those in power: go against them and they'll just make more rules. Or insist there was an interpretation of an existing rule that no one knew or understood but them until now that they are explaining it to your dumb a...

Ours are so convoluted that you really have to look at three or four rules at a time to realize how situationally dependent they are.

Here's one: you can legally touch/ move a ball (with your hand, body, shirt, etc.) that rests between you and the cueball- IF this happens before your cue's contact with the cueball. If, however, the ball you touch/move is either to the side or in front of the cueball, the touching/ moving is a foul. (No word on whether you touched balls that were originally behind the cb, then you changed your mind and went for another shot, and now those balls are in front of the cb.) Now if you touch or move a ball either during or after contact with the cb, even if that touched/ moved ball was and always was behind the cb and did not affect the path of anything, it's a foul. Get that?

Here's another one. Double hitting a cueball (they call it a "push shot") is legal. Because there's no referee present, they say there's no one to be able to tell if it was a double hit or not, so it has to be legal. However, you may not double hit an 8ball AND make the 8- that's an instant loss of game. (Guess who really has to be present and involved to make that final determination.)

Another: you must keep your cue under your armpit at all times. Some interpret this to mean "no masse's," which got me into an argument the other night after a masse... either through logic or determined persistence I finally got them to back down. I insisted that there is no physical way, barring a double jointed shoulder, to get my cue higher than my armpit but lower than my own elbow. And I still don't think she ever believed me.

Our most hilarious rule? You are not allowed to get into a physical fight with the opposing team, within one hour before or one hour after match play, on the same premises as the match. Chew on that.

 

[blah blah]

...Another: you must keep your cue under your armpit at all times. Some interpret this to mean "no masse's," which got me into an argument the other night after a masse... either through logic or determined persistence I finally got them to back down. I insisted that there is no physical way, barring a double jointed shoulder, to get my cue higher than my armpit but lower than my own elbow. And I still don't think she ever believed me...

Now that I'm thinking about it, if the rule means the entire cue, including the butt, must remain under the armpit, my opponent may have been right without even knowing it.

I want to be fair but these crazy add- on rules and interpretations require a lot of mental gymnastics. And I don't even drink.

 

[krupa]

I'll have to grab the rule book of the local league and let you guys see how ridiculous it is. I'll mention a few just off the top of my head that stick out.. but the entire rule set just goes against everything I ever learned.

• No safeties - You must call a pocket and make an honest attempt at pocketing that ball.
  
• No ball in hand or fouls in play. All scratches etc.. are played from behind the head string.
  
• No jumping or masse's - Masse's are determined if the butt of the cue stick is above the shoulder.
  
• If you accidentally move your ball or opponents ball, it is at the digression of the opposing player to either leave it lay or place it back. They must place the ball where they BELIEVE it laid originally, you cannot.
  
• If a ball is to get stuck in the bottom of the pocket it is spotted, if the ball bounces from within the pocket back onto the table it is to be played from where it comes to rest.
  
• If ANY part of the object ball or cue ball is touching the head string it is considered inside the kitchen.
  
• A legal break consists of contacting the head ball first and 3 balls contacting rails after the break.
  
• If a player is caught/called on playing a safety the game is too be re-racked. If a second offense is made during the game, it is a forfeit.
  
• Each player is allowed 3 time-outs per rack which may be called by them or the team captain. The coach may ask the player to step away from the table and call their own time-out in order to discuss possible shot options.
  
• (Just an example) If you pocket 3 balls on the break (2 solids, 1 stripe) you are designated solids. If you sink a stripe and solid, the table is open.
  
• You cannot rack your own game. You may ask for a re-rack but your opponent must be the one to rack. You are only allowed 1 re-rack per game, afterwards you must turn the break over to your opponent.
  

..These are just some rules. For a local league our rule book is about 16 pages.

Does everybody get a trophy at the end as well?

 

[TheNewSharkster]

My favorite was using the mechanical bridge during a small bar tournament and my opponent says only really bad players use the "granny stick" and that I shouldn't be using it. I laughed and said all the pro players use the bridge and they are the best in the world.

The other one I see on occasion is if the cue ball is on the rail the player is allowed to take the width of the butt of a cue stick and move it off the rail that far.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

The other one I see on occasion is if the cue ball is on the rail the player is allowed to take the width of the butt of a cue stick and move it off the rail that far.

Hee, hee. That's a "good" one. I forgot about that one, but I have seen it before myself as well.

One time, there was a guy, now he wasn't a regular player by any means, so this is not one of those "local rules" kind of things. But he gets to the table, doesn't like what he sees and says, "pass" and sits back down. It was very hard to explain to him that passing was not an option with a straight face.

 

[cueandcushion]

Guy Monday told me its okay to scratch on the 8 ball as long as the cue ball went in AFTER the 8. I wish someone would make some easy to read posters again for different games to hang in a room.


Guess I just gave myself my new project.

 

[barboxbanks]

Does everybody get a trophy at the end as well?

lol.. nope. Just the 4 top shots in each division which is determined by your win/loose percentage. Oh and the leagues top shooter gets a Jacket embroidered with their name on the breast.

Here's another one. Double hitting a cueball (they call it a "push shot") is legal. Because there's no referee present, they say there's no one to be able to tell if it was a double hit or not, so it has to be legal. However, you may not double hit an 8ball AND make the 8- that's an instant loss of game. (Guess who really has to be present and involved to make that final determination.)

lol, we're allowed to push the cue ball as far as we want. Doesn't matter if the balls are married either. I've pushed through the cue ball so much at one point I actually contacted the object ball with my cue and pushed it into the pocket. They ruled it legal and allowed me to shoot again.

One other funny thing about this local league is if you're accused of taking drugs by another player (smoking pot etc..) they will ask you to take a UT, and if you fail you will be suspended from the league for a year. Still not quite sure how they can legally ask you to take a UT.

The odd thing about suspensions is about 3 years ago me and a couple others were suspended for a week so they could decide what to do because other teams and players were complaining that "they are too good, and it's unfair to the lesser player without a proper handicap system (which we do not use)" So it just seems any rhyme or reason to suspend you they will anyway.

This year is my last year of local league though, we have 2 games left and I'm washing my hands of it. I joined for the fun and friendships, obviously not for the rewards lol. When it's not fun anymore it's time to move on.

 

[Scaramouche]

I have always felt that it would be nice to have a world standard set of rules that might actually someday be adopted by the masses so as to avoid all the squabbles and stupid rules that you run into as illustrated by this thread.

thanks you
Fatz

I doubt that Americans would adopt them.
It's the devotion to rugged independence and abhorrence of uniformity in their DNA.
Over in the snooker section I got into an elongated 'discussion' with a couple of guys from the 'show me state' who insisted that their snooker rules, that is, pool rules, were superior to what the rest of the world plays.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

One of the only bars I will play in has a tourney the last Sunday of the month.

8 Ball last pocket and I swear, some of these guys make the rules up as the game goes on to suit the situation.

I missed and hooked my opponent. He told me that if he couldn't see his ball, he didn't have to hit it, or try to. He then pushed the cue ball into a position that left me without much of a shot. I told him no matter if he was hooked or not, he was still obligated to try and hit his ball. He couldn't grasp that one.

But, they take this one to the next level. Even if they are not hooked, but hitting their ball won't sink one of thiers but might break out one of mine, they elect to just push the cue ball. No foul.

If a player is on the 8, he has to be able to see 100% of the 8 ball or he doesn't have to hit it.

When I play bar rules, I tell my opponent that if he calls a pocket and the ball goes in, its a fair shot. I don't care how the ball gets there its fair.
I have never had any resistance playing like this once I explain the reasoning behind it.

Its just the tourney players who refuse to embrace any changes to their beloved little tourney. Why, I have no idea. I have tried till blue in the face trying to explain why having a small set of rules to play by would
enhance the experience.

Oh well, I show up and play and if anything else, I kill a Sunday afternoon and have a few cold ones and a few laughs anyway.

 

[Aten]

LOL the other day my team captain tried to tell me that my opponent had racked illegally because "the two balls in the second row must both be solids", I had to check my phone to make sure it wasn't April 1st!

 

[Wags]

Huh???

My favorite was using the mechanical bridge during a small bar tournament and my opponent says only really bad players use the "granny stick" and that I shouldn't be using it. I laughed and said all the pro players use the bridge and they are the best in the world.

Why would you use a bridge when you can just crawl up on the table?

The other one I see on occasion is if the cue ball is on the rail the player is allowed to take the width of the butt of a cue stick and move it off the rail that far.

What????? I can't do that anymore?

 

[JMW]

The other one I see on occasion is if the cue ball is on the rail the player is allowed to take the width of the butt of a cue stick and move it off the rail that far.

I forgot about the using the width of the butt when on a rail. We used to play this way when I was a kid.

I once had a guy tell me it was okay to hit the eight ball before hitting your own ball... because the eight ball belongs to neither solids nor stripes... unless of course one player has made all his balls and is currently shooting on the eight. Then it is illegal to hit the eight ball first.

 

[poolguy4u]

BCA rules make the game too easy. I really don't know why you all are making fun of different rules. If you are a hustler or a good pool player, you need to play last pocket, bank the eight, or make the eight go in clean. It's just too easy to break and run using BCA rules.

BCA isn't all that. And now BCA outlaws phenolic and G-10 material break tips, but it's okay for a jump cue. How ridicules is that? Phenolic tips are legal in every other league except BCA. Cue balls and pool balls wear out and get nicked. Just a fact of life.

 

[scratchs]

Last pocket,bank the eight isn't that hard either...why not play eight ball..an all balls bank? Or just play banks one handed.
I haven't took this thread in a negative light..its just funny how so many places have so many different rules to a simple game..now thats funny..but what the heck..IT'S bar pool...and in general some folks are to serious with how bar pool is to be played..myself inclueded..lol
Yep I'm a crazy old man..

 

[blah blah]

This hasn't been just a 'yay BCA/bcapl rules' thread. This has been a weird crazy rules thread.

There's a logic to rules- especially when there's a whole set of rules that work together. Rules make opportunities and take some away. They encourage a variety of skills. They make a game equally fair between both players.

Reread some of those crazy rules listed above along those lines: do the rules cited above serve a purpose? Do they work in harmony with the rest of the rules of the game, or do they just confuse? Do they encourage skill or do they encourage favoritism, fighting, or just luck?