A Plea to Mike Howerton...

[sfleinen]

Not so Sean. I don't like it because I believe it is what the main forum is for, topics about pool. The only reason for moving it is because it's easier to hide it than solve the real problem with them. Without the trolling, they would be short threads for the most part.

Neil:

Believe me, I hear ya, man. But I used the term "whack-a-mole" to describe essentially what this process would be. We *KNOW* we have a lightning rod topic as all disciplines / sports do. Stereo enthusiasts have tubes vs. transistors (attribution to "tenzip" on that one). Bass guitarists have fingers vs. plectrum style of playing. Fishermen have live bait vs. lures. We could go on and on, but the point is that aiming *is* the lightning rod topic for this and other pool-related sites.

But one thing is for sure -- those other disciplines / sports deal with those topics in a unique way, to include segregation of the material, inclusion of an entry in their FAQ (and even Terms of Use, in many cases) that stipulate "don't post about that question, but instead read 'this' first, and if you still have questions, go 'here' to post your question." It just plain works with lightning rod topics.

I know, I know, it isn't the "logical" way of dealing with problems, and "unfairly" (in your perception) segregates "helpful instructive material" away from general distribution, which cuts on its instructive abilities. But unfortunately, such is the nature of dealing with lightning rod topics.

-Sean

 

[TheThaiger]

You and I have sparred before John..and all I can say is, if the powers that be, would give you your own sub-forum, I for one, would be a lot more frequent visitor. I would also promise NEVER to invade you and JoeyA's private turf.

Yup, me neither. But this is really about maintaining control and growing power bases. Such personal egos at play!

I see those with a god complex are against the idea, wanting to 'off' the non-believers instead.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

 

[sfleinen]

Don't forget which tip, which chalk, which cue, which table, ect. Are you after a forum, or a chat room??

Those are not lightning rod topics, Neil. Sure, they are annoying, but don't hold a candle to what a REAL lightning rod topic is. And for this and other pool sites, aiming *IS* that lightning rod. Sometimes one has to deal with lightning rods in a very unique way, that is outside the norm of how to handle issues that are normally successfully dealt with in the traditional way.

-Sean

 

[Rich93]

Make it a instructional forum section, get rid of the stroking threads, the stance threads, the "does a ball transfer spin???" threads AND the aiming threads and put them all into a instructional forum section. That would be freaking sweet.

None of those other topics generate the heat, and the tiresome repetitiveness, of the aiming threads. There's nothing about aiming per se that requires them to be segregated except for the way they always, and I mean always, play out.

I've been avoiding aiming threads and an aiming sub-forum will make that a little easier. But I have a different reason for recommending the sub-forum. Aiming threads have been and continue to be embarrassing to AZB. I'd like to simply ban them but that probably goes too far.

When you invite guests over to your house and your kids are squabbling like brats, send them to their room .... that is, their sub-forum.

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[SUPERSTAR]

There was a poll 2 years ago.

The poll back then was 2-1 in favor of creating a new sub forum.

Better late then never.

 

[TheThaiger]

If you look at the actual threads on aiming, most are started by those against using aiming methods. Simple cure, Mike- ban PJ from posting about CTE, ban PoolSharkAllen from posting about John Barton unless he has at least 5 posts about something else inbetween posting about John. Toughie here- find all of pocketpoints user names and ban them all. I realize that might knock out 1/3 of your actual memberships, but it would be worth it. Ban The Thaiger from posting a neg. post without at least 5 pos. posts in between the neg ones. Do just that, and almost all your problems are gone with aiming threads and other threads.

Actually, I very rarely get involved in aiming threads. It took me a long time to bother to see what all the fuss was about, then, once I'd had my fill of the lunacy contained therein, I stayed away.

But it irks me that you so casually bandy the 'T' word about. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, Neddy. Don't forget that, and also, don't forget you don't speak for the entire board.

All your efforts on this site should be dedicated to just ONE question: why is America an irrelevance in world pool, and how can this be changed?

The answer ain't aiming systems, bub. The answer is cueing, fundamentals and poor teaching, and pertinently, replication of.

 

[Celtic]

None of those other topics generate the heat, and the tiresome repetitiveness, of the aiming threads.

I agree that they do not pruduce as much heat as our weekly aiming thread but the spin transfer threads get close to the same league at times.

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[tenzip]

Wow.

This only took 1.5 pages to turn into an aiming thread.*

I think we need another sub-forum for threads about aiming threads.

* I have my options set for 40 posts per page, so this appears to be 1.5 pages to me. I just realized it looks like 4 to most folks.

 

[TheThaiger]

Never said I speak for the entire board. In fact, you bring up a point, what say you I start a poll on that very subject? Since you are so sure I'm wrong, what's the stakes? How about if I'm wrong, I will publicly apologize and never call you a troll again. If you are wrong, you have to change the way you reply to topics, meaning, you have to put things in a positive light instead of always being contrary. What say you???

To what? If you must offer tediously childish challenges, can you at least provide a proposal of clarity?

 

[sfleinen]

Or, you could just use this once in a while-

View attachment 221912

Unwieldy and unimplementable, Neil. For one thing, your definition of a "troll" may not match the mods' definition of the same. What I've noticed is that some folks that you perceive as "trolls" are just normally good posting people, that either get sick of some aspect of the aiming threads (for example, PJ and his insistence that the pivot is more feel than science), or just want to engage in a little "piling on" for the fun of it.

There are other reasons, of course, but the point is that not all those folks are trolls through and through. It's sad, but some folks actually *like* to see other folks like you, JB, and Dave S. lose it, even though normally, in other topics, your contributions would be viewed in a completely different light. Put it this way, I have to admit, one of the funniest threads I read in a long time, was Dave's spoof of PJ's half-ball aiming thread with Vince the Shamwow guy's pic. My sides hurt after seeing that one. I was erupting in laughter hours afterwards, even in the car on the way home from work.

You keep glossing over the lightning rod topic, so I have to ask you a very pointed question. Do you agree that the topic of aiming is a lightning rod topic here on AZB?

-Sean

 

[Neil]

..................

 

[TheThaiger]

Yes, because certain people have made it that way. If you have roaches, do you move the house, or do you get rid of the roaches?? Same thing, different analogy. With that, I'm off to play some. Something some of the roaches on here never do.

Didn't you say in another of your {sob} 'but nobody loves me' {wail} threads that YOU don't play the game? You ought to look in the mirror some time.

 

[sfleinen]

Yes, because certain people have made it that way. If you have roaches, do you move the house, or do you get rid of the roaches?? Same thing, different analogy.

I don't agree with this analogy. You're essentially classifying *anyone* who doesn't agree with the content of aiming threads, even vehemently (as they're allowed to do) as "roaches." Someone torpedoing someone else's stance on a certain topic isn't a roach.

Like I said, for all disciplines, sports, etc. -- name one -- there exists certain topics that are lightning rods. Whether it be tubes vs. transistors in amplifiers, or playing stringed instruments with fingers vs. a plectrum, or abortion vs. right-to-life, there are just those topics that, no matter what, bring out the worst in people. With our sport, it's the topic of aiming. Just because the worst was brought out in someone -- or just because they may [vehemently] disagree, doesn't make them a "roach."

Sure, there are indeed true trolls on this board. But I think moving the lightning rod topic to its own dedicated area will sniff-out those trolls, and they themselves will cause their own demise. Sometimes you have to lay traps in the house to kill the roaches, rather than think you're going to get them all with a can of spray.

-Sean

 

[JMW]

I totally agree with this idea! But if Mike doesn't want a new sub-forum started, maybe all aiming threads could go into the NPR section since none of the aiming arguments have done anything to further pool.

Roger

I totally disagree. Aiming threads have been very helpful to me. I have tried many of the different systems and my game has improved. You can learn as much by what doesn't work for you as what does. But you have to try first and most of the "anti aiming thread" folks don't even try for an extended period of time.

I would also like a separate section for aiming. I get tired of the arguing.

 

[JoeyA]

You and I have sparred before John..and all I can say is, if the powers that be, would give you your own sub-forum, I for one, would be a lot more frequent visitor. I would also promise NEVER to invade you and JoeyA's private turf.

You guys spend about 2-3 posts introducing (and trying to teach the newbies, why yours is best) and the other 4-6-800 posts, are spent arguing, name calling, and bruised ego flaming.

I think what the previous poster meant was, when you guy's get going...your replys come very 'rapid fire', and NO one wants to give an inch, on ANYTHING ! Consequently, all other posts or new threads, work their way off page 1 and 2, real fast...You don't notice it, because you (and 4 or 5 others) are always in the thick of the fray.

There are many more pool related subjects,MUCH more interesting...than aiming systems...You, and your 'birds of a feather' can resume your daily slaughters, unmolested...Jerry or Mike could let it be known, that any "Naysayer's" who butt into your private domain, would face suspension. or worse...Whats wrong with that ? :thumbup:

PS..If you want to point to numbers, the number of posts, (just by you and Joey, and your regular group) are about 3-4 times the number of posts on the "GIF Funny Picture" thread...Say you are not being a little 'hoggish'..

You need a little help Dick. 31% is the best I could find for you.:thumbup::thumbup:

 

[sfleinen]

I totally agree with this idea! But if Mike doesn't want a new sub-forum started, maybe all aiming threads could go into the NPR section since none of the aiming arguments have done anything to further pool.

Roger

I totally disagree. Aiming threads have been very helpful to me. I have tried many of the different systems and my game has improved. You can learn as much by what doesn't work for you as what does. But you have to try first and most of the "anti aiming thread" folks don't even try for an extended period of time.

I would also like a separate section for aiming. I get tired of the arguing.

I agree with JMW. Although not an aiming system supporter per se, I *have* learned some valuable things in those threads that I would be remiss in not admitting I have through reading those threads. Throwing them into NPR is basically throwing the baby out with the bath water. The baby itself is a PROVEN lightning rod to be sure, but doesn't deserve to get thrown out by any stretch of the imagination.

-Sean

 

[pool101]

Aiming threads remind me of when I was a kid, we had chickens, if you shot or cut the head off a chicken, and let it go, it flops around and draws the attention of the other chickens which then begin to attack the dead chicken.. It is nothing to see 10 chickens jumping around and pecking and spurring a dead chicken. It becomes a comical free for all, and it makes the next chicken an easy target.
I think it is funny that so many people think they have the ONE way to aim, and when someone starts the barn yard dance the others come and jump in.
Mark

 

[JoeyA]

Yes, because certain people have made it that way. If you have roaches, do you move the house, or do you get rid of the roaches?? Same thing, different analogy. With that, I'm off to play some. Something some of the roaches on here never do.

You get the rid of the ROACHES!