TheThaiger
Banned
I think we should have a sub-forum each, and talk to ourselves.
A Plea to Mike Howerton...
- Thread starter tucson9ball
- Start date
I think we should have a sub-forum each, and talk to ourselves.
The AZ Hall of Fame area is for AZB members only, that've passed on.
The bolded part, "& Instructional Techniques/Theories," does not belong. People are now beginning to think that because Aiming threads were moved to a separate section, that therefore "all instructional material should as well." This is not the case.
This is why:
- You and I can have a completely different stance, and noone would have a problem with it.
- You and I can advocate different ways of practicing, and noone would have a problem with it
- You and I can advocate different ways of viewing patterns, and noone would have a problem with it
- ...ad nauseum
(BTW, I use the phrase "you and I" for demonstrative purposes only; obviously I don't intentionally mean you and I literally.)
It's pure and simply the "A" word, exclusively. No other aspect of pool form, approach, and instruction generates even a comparable level of animosity and conflagration on these boards. As with every sport, discipline, or topic of discussion having a lightning rod topic, *this* is ours. That's why the subforum is entitled, "Aiming Conversation" very pointedly. It's point-purpose and targeted for that reason. And yet, you watch -- once the "dry heaves" (negative and sarcastic reactions) against this decision by the few folks that disagree with it subside -- and they will -- the forum will be a much, MUCH calmer place.
-Sean
TheThaiger
Banned
Get this ----- I agree.
I wasn't the one complaining about moving a pool related topic to another area. But by all means, go ahead and keep going with this NPR thread that has plenty of life.
Can you come up with something more original next time? Thanks.
Freddie Agnir
And I disagree. Do you all really think that Aiming Systems is the only topic that gets rises? Have you not been paying any attention at all???
Fred, you are right -- the answer to your first question is "no." APA threads, as an example, is another topic that gets rises. But not nearly to the extent that aiming threads do. And even with APA threads, they quickly calm down once the boisterous ones get a bonk on the head each. Try that with aiming threads, and watch the conflagration grow, as if gasoline was poured on the fire.
-Sean
The fact that you actually see nothing wrong with this statement just shows why people should add you to their ignore list.
And the fact that you gave a reason of why you will go over there but yet don't consider it trolling gives further reason.
Seek counseling.
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Sean, the internet forums have been around a long time. Before Hal Houle ever jumped in, the hot topic was low squirt cues and "low deflection" in general. And they got HOT!
And as I"ve said earlier, the advancement of low squirt cues would *never* be where it is today nor would the spread of the understanding of low squirt be around without the often heated discussions involving people like Thomas Wayne, Ron Shepard, Mike Page, Bob Jewett, Pat Johnson.. and yes I'll even shamelessly throw my name in there.
Where else could you possible gather this many passionate pool players from around the world who have a good deal of scientific background and ability to communicate while bringing the pool hall mentality with them to a central medium? Nowhere else.
Even today, low squirt gets slightly hot, but instead of five people understanding it and debating with hundreds who didn't understand it, hundreds or thousands now understand. Surely there's a path of understanding like this for all hot topics. It just happens that today, there are more people doing homework on various aiming systems.
Freddie
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Post #129 you weren't get real! Most of the people who argue on those threads just want to be the center of attention. Moving them to their own section makes sense because a lot of that will just go away. I think that's it's a great they moved aiming to it's own space!!!!
Freddie:
I understand, and I like your example of using LD. But my question to you is, how long did it take for this "phenomenon" to die down? I'll bet it was pretty quickly -- say, 5 or 7 years at the maximum?
The aiming thing has been going hot -- at an aggressive, rumbling boil that spills over into the flames constantly -- for 15 years. It has shown no signs of abatement. Sure, there are lull times, but as soon as a single aiming thread is posted, pow! We have a new conflagration on our hands, that sparks off new threads that each spiral off into a conflagration. Although there have been a couple minor new understandings about the aiming systems, we are no closer to any sort of understanding or truce to the matter.
At least with LD, one can argue the science why this technology works or matters -- the propeller-heads can really sink their teeth into it, because this is a tangible, physical "thing" that the laws of physics applies to.
But with aiming, we have fingers millimeters away from contact with each other with taunts of "I'm not touching you!", silly (and preposterous) proposition bets, and the ever-ubiquitous "you don't know your *ss from a hole in your head" name-calling that makes up the 99% content of aiming threads. This has been going on for 15 years, and some of us are really, grossly tired of it. There comes a time when the "but you have to keep this topic in the public's eye if you ever want to have any sort of resolution!" has shown it has failed, does not work, and instead does more continued harm than good. A lot of us agree that time has come (it was here long ago, actually).
My humble opinion only,
-Sean
You've hit the nail right on the head. We have posters here (you know who they are) that have been allowed to get away with engaging in ad hominem attacks, name calling and insulting other posters for years now. We have posters here who have been warned and banned many times, yet beyond all comprehension, they are still here posting away despite the "three strikes and you're out rule."
We probably don't need more moderators; we just need for them to enforce the rules that we already have.
TheThaiger
Banned
I pay very close to attention to a lot of things; uniquely so, it appears. Aiming systems may not be the only threads that gets rises, but they're certainly amongst the dullest.
My concern is thus: aiming threads in the main forum will get a lot of interest, a disproportionate and prominent amount of interest. Young minds and fresh eyes will see the likes of John Barton - JOHN BLOODY BARTON - rave on about them as if he's a world champion or something. It might take them several months to work out the man can't cue, and by that time the damage may be done.
Let them go play with the flat-earthers out of sight is what I say, where they can do no lasting damage. It's bad enough these people are allowed to breed - the least we can do is shunt their insanity platform outta the way.
I think you have it backwards. I wasn't the one complaining about the aiming threads. I'm the one perplexed at why anyone thinks it's a good idea to move a pool related topic to a different area. You're accusation of my whining is completely backwards.
This is a pool forum. Exactly what topics should stay in the main forum if not aiming? If aiming goes (as I said), by logic every topic that gets any debate should also go. That's not whining.
Oh please. You're the one who acts like you are a champion. Remember when you lied to us all telling us you play every day for ten hours and talk to hundreds of players each day???
You knock EVERYTHING about pool in America and act like if everyone would adopt a snooker stance then we'd all be much better. You knock champions like John Brumback and call everyone who sells DVDS con-artists and say that they are bringing pool down.
John Barton stands up under his own name and talks about pool from his own REAL experience, puts up videos warts and all, and simply is helpful to whoever needs information. I have never said I am anything but a B player. Still even at that I bet my high run records are better than yours.
Trolls like you excel in being antagonistic. You are contrary with EVERYTHING and a major pain about it. Everyone here knows that you are nothing but a major nuisance.
If I am a nobody in pool then you are a super nobody. That's right, you are a completely inconsequential person in pool. So when you want to talk credentials at least I am the only one between us who has public credentials that are verifiable. People can contact me and meet me and get on the table with me to see what I know and whether or not they agree with or not.
So try again Trollger. You already got banned once for dogging John Brumback's DVD. Even after you were proven wrong a dozen times in that thread as everyone shot down your comments with actual proof you continued to slander John and all instructional authors in pool.
So the reality is that you are the cancer that is destroying pool. People like you are the ones that don't want to see pool grow, who have zero interest in doing anything positive and do your best to knock anyone that is doing positive things.
We need more moderators to stay on top of the trolls, such as you, and then when people like you are shut down, the people like me who have experience to offer won't be burdened by responding to troll attacks.
In other forums there are many more moderators to handle it. In this forum Dave is the only moderator that does the work day-to-day. Since it's a volunteer position I have to guess that he doesn't do it full time.
Having help would solve a lot of the problem and especially if that help were recruited from long time members.
I participate in several other forums which never have these problems because they have enough moderation to enforce the rules.
Freddie:
Unfortunately, that (the bolded part) is an "all or nothing" approach. All sports, disciplines, and topics of discussion have "lightning rod" topics that those sports, disciplines, and topics of discussion have to deal with uniquely. To use an extreme example for demonstration purposes, I'll pull one out of the air -- abortion vs. right to life. Everyone knows that if you want to have any meaningful discussion, you STAY AWAY from that topic. If you don't, you are guaranteed to have a huge fire on your hands that you can't easily put out. And you'll have people that normally respect and like each other, now warring factions who've lost respect for each other -- if not significantly, then enough that a "ten steps back and look at the big picture" approach would show it's a needless shame.
The topic of aiming, for pool, seems to be that lightning rod topic. Sure, we have "hot" topics like APA, low deflection shafts, etc. -- but none of these compare to the destructive nature that aiming threads have proven.
-Sean
I like the all or nothing approach. It's a virtual pool hall.
When the Derby City Classic forum got its own forum, suddenly when the DCC came around there was extremely little discussion on it whereas years prior there was plenty of it. There is no doubt that the move out of the Main Forum was the cause.
Any new forum member who doesn't know about the DCC may never find out about it unless s/he happens by chance upon it somehow or someone on the Main Forum links it.
Any new forum member that truly wants to learn a different method of aiming is going to have to chance upon it when there are literally dozens of people who are willing to freely share?
All or nothing. Censor one's self.
But, clearly if Mike didn't agree with those who wanted it moved he wouldn't have made the switch so quickly. Surely he didn't just do it because of pressure. It's his ball field.
TheThaiger
Banned
:grin:
1. I don't think I ever said I played 10 hours a day - about half that would be about right, probably a little less over the last couple of months. I still talk to hundreds of *proper* players, although not every day, obviously.
2. I've didn't knock JB's DVD, just the pricing of it. I still think it's scandalous - as was being banned for trying to stop pool going down the drain for good, in a maelstrom of selfishness and greed. STILL haven't seen where the content of his DVD has been passed on to the wider pool playing community, which backs up my point, somewhat. You'll pay what you want to get your fix and damn the game. I'm afraid I don't see your 'proof', although you're more than welcome to find it for me.
3. Teaching people to stand correctly would do more good than banging on and on about aiming systems of dubious benefit.
4. A B player? Christ, I've just had a dramatic promotion!
5. Seriously - you're a B player? :shocked2:
Altruistic (and admirable!) thinking, but sadly, unimplementable. We can try to espouse ideals, but the sad fact is that most are incapable of what should be easy to implement positive traits, so the medium itself has to take steps to prevent the house from continually getting burned down. Forum fire insurance is expensive these days!
See above.
-Sean
You're a nobody. A complete non-entity. All you are is a screen-name with zero credentials. You have been caught in your lies more than once and everyone knows that you are just saying whatever you think will get a rise.
So continue on. Doesn't matter because whatever you say fades away in a sea of obscurity.