A Plea to Mike Howerton...
- Thread starter tucson9ball
- Start date
No it's not. It's how you do it. You can disagree and have a meaningful discussion to figure something out. But when you call people kooks, and con-artists, and the like then it's not discussion any longer.
When all you do is post versions of "is not" then that's trolling. And it leads to the other side posting endless versions of "is too".
Once again, Sean, you are right. When I said "they" are not going to like being taken off center-stage, I was actually talking about both parties in the debates. I was basing that opinion on my personal observation that both sides seemed to enjoy the combat. To me, it seemed that if there wasn't any aiming threads for a while, and everything was too peaceful, then someone would start a new aiming thread just to get the fight going again.
But as I stated above, that is just my own personal opinion, and my apologies go out to any and all who were offended by my remarks.
Thank you for being so level-headed, Sean. (NO, I am NOT saying you have a flat head!
)Roger
This is true. The comments become part of the troll-realm when the gist is all "is not", "is so"... And then the name calling begins.
Civil discussion is good, and differences of opinion are also good. Treating others with respect would be nice. At the very least, treating others the way you'd like to be treated yourself. Agreeing to disagree on a point, or points, for the sake of the conversation.
Rather than being insulting, condescending and argumentative, often the sake of it. Trying win the argument, not to actually have a discussion.
All of this pie-in-the-sky dream is directed at both sides of the uncivil war. Not specifically at the yeah or the nay...
Sweet sentiments, JB. So let's explore this further.
When you have people engaging in name calling, calling people kooks and con artists and the like, what should the penalty be? Should they be warned and possibly banned? Since you've called people stupid, idiotic and a dog all in one posting, what should the penalty be? Or should some people get preferential treatment and be allowed to call people names at will?
How about posters who engage in ad hominem attacks and insulting other posters? The ad hominem attacks and insults that you've made are among the most vicious of anything I've seen in this forum. Should those people be allowed to abuse the forum rules and make ad hominem attacks and insult other posters or should they get penalized somehow?
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As an old indian friend once said "YU-THU-HAY", loosely translated, means "what the hell".
This sucker has morphed into almost 10 pages. It just proves that there is enough interest to merit a sub-forum for "Aiming".
I've seen some jabs and some apologies throughout, almost like a true aiming thread itself.
Just for the record, I learned waaay back to use the "ghost ball" for my aiming. Over the years I have made adjustments to my stroke, stance, grip hand. Too many things to name without actually showing it. I try to keep an open mind to anything that would help pocket balls.
Anyhoo, thanks to all who may have to work at moving aiming threads to their new area. :thumbup:
This sucker has morphed into almost 10 pages. It just proves that there is enough interest to merit a sub-forum for "Aiming".
I've seen some jabs and some apologies throughout, almost like a true aiming thread itself.
Just for the record, I learned waaay back to use the "ghost ball" for my aiming. Over the years I have made adjustments to my stroke, stance, grip hand. Too many things to name without actually showing it. I try to keep an open mind to anything that would help pocket balls.
Anyhoo, thanks to all who may have to work at moving aiming threads to their new area. :thumbup:
Too bad. I think it sucks. There is more bad than good at this decision.
But, I'm glad everyone thinks aiming isn't a good enough topic to beat up on. Let's all make sure that when questions of position play, how to improve my break, and how can I improve in general come up, let's put those in their own forum as well.
Why do you have to have credentials to discuss aiming? BTW, what pros use all of these aiming methods - FAR & FEW. And don't give me SVB method - what a joke. Like I have said - anybody who plays 8 hours a day can shoot with their eyes closed and don't need an aiming system.
I have seen no one bring 'margin of error' into this, statistical analysis, law of deminishing returns, and all of the other variables into these discussions - none to note that is, and I haven't read every thread just to keep out of this nonsense.
I do not make my statements just to get someone's hackles up. And I don't have the time to describe why aiming threads/methods are bad. I just make my statements and get out of the thread. Show me an aiming thread where I have rambled on without pause.
Agreed -- it's a bad move. azbilliards.com has finally jumped the shark.
Lou Figueroa
Sorry that everyone doesn't agree with the decision.
IMO, aiming has become such a hot button for everyone here that it deserves it's own area.
It would be nice if we were all able to discuss the topic neutrally and be allowed to make decisions based on our own opinions.
Unfortunately, enough people have made it very clear that everyone who doesn't agree with them is an idiot and should be lucky if they ever make a ball.
That had a LOT to do with the decision.
Mike
IMO, aiming has become such a hot button for everyone here that it deserves it's own area.
It would be nice if we were all able to discuss the topic neutrally and be allowed to make decisions based on our own opinions.
Unfortunately, enough people have made it very clear that everyone who doesn't agree with them is an idiot and should be lucky if they ever make a ball.
That had a LOT to do with the decision.
Mike
Actually Sean does have a flat head. It stems from when he was a younger lad. Neither his dog nor Sean were that smart and they used to chase parked cars together. You can only run your noggin into a chrome bumper so many times. We used to call him Ole Flat Head.
Well Mike,
Only ONE side of the debate has continually made it a habit to call those who WOULD like to talk about the methods kooks, religious nuts, crazies, delsuional etc.....
And those same people have slandered ALL the instructors who teach these methods with labels like con-artists, snake-oil salesmen and the like.
It's not fair to say that those who advocate learning aiming systems think anyone who disagrees with them are idiots. That is not true. The only idiots are the ones who constantly get into the discussions and start in with the labels I mentioned above.
All the aiming system people have said all along just try it and if you can't get it then we will help you as best we can and if you don't like it then don't use it.
We have studied this topic 20 ways in every direction. It's truly pathetic for anyone who WILL NOT even try it to tell us what we are doing and what we are thinking in the manner that they have done.
When a discussion was started and those who are proficient were helping those who had questions it was not long before those who disagreed jumped in to disrupt the discussion. And naturally the favor was returned on the other side.
The fact of it is that the people who advocate these various aiming methods only want to help other people play better pool. They don't deserve to be persecuted as you have allowed them to be persecuted on this forum.
And persecuted is exactly the correct word. If you and Dave Wilson had put the kibosh on this behavior years ago then we wouldn't be at this point right now. I have long said that if a few people had been censored and not allowed to be incivil and slanderous then the aiming threads would have run their course naturally for the people interested in them and died within 100 posts at most.
But when you allow people to slander then it becomes a huge fight. That's the real problem Mike, not that people can't control themselves. People tend to be jerks when they can get away with it and the fact that they have been allowed to get away with it is the root of the problem.
I can guarantee you that IF an aiming thread about how CTE works were put on the main forum and the main antagonists were kept completely out if then the thread would go about 30 posts or so and be done.
Add a few more moderators and see how much this forum will improve.
Question: Can we pretty please have a sub-forum for aiming threads because I have to wade thru them and they push legitimate posts off the first few pages
Answer: First, we need to put this in the proper perspective. I just looked at the latest 3 pages (75 threads) and only noticed 2 or so about aiming, judging by a look at the subject line. I didn't count the one thanking the forum admin for creating a sub-forum. So, while there are countless threads about aiming, I don't believe it's doing too much damage with the pushing off of posts. Believe me, I care about that aspect, as most of my posts are announcing a video or something I worked hard on, and it sucks to have 2 replies and it disappears into the forum vortex of the past, never to be seen again, thus limiting the amount of people you would like to think would have enjoyed viewing your work.
But here is my answer and it's proved to be extremely effective over the past 15 years or so. Hitch up your panties, and take a fistful of Xanax, because here it is in all of my most brutal honesty. (apparently blue is the color to emphasize something)
DON'T READ THE DAMN THING!
That's right... if I don't like a subject or a person, I don't read it. If I read any of it, it's my own damn fault and I have no one else to blame but myself. It's real simple too.. if the subject line indicates it might be about aiming, don't open it. If a thread gets hijacked with aiming posts, don't read it anymore. Abandon it promptly!
There ya go! It works great and there's no one you can blame if you read aiming threads/posts. Except you.
Thinking about putting out a video or book about this, you guys think it'll sell?
Answer: First, we need to put this in the proper perspective. I just looked at the latest 3 pages (75 threads) and only noticed 2 or so about aiming, judging by a look at the subject line. I didn't count the one thanking the forum admin for creating a sub-forum. So, while there are countless threads about aiming, I don't believe it's doing too much damage with the pushing off of posts. Believe me, I care about that aspect, as most of my posts are announcing a video or something I worked hard on, and it sucks to have 2 replies and it disappears into the forum vortex of the past, never to be seen again, thus limiting the amount of people you would like to think would have enjoyed viewing your work.
But here is my answer and it's proved to be extremely effective over the past 15 years or so. Hitch up your panties, and take a fistful of Xanax, because here it is in all of my most brutal honesty. (apparently blue is the color to emphasize something)
DON'T READ THE DAMN THING!
That's right... if I don't like a subject or a person, I don't read it. If I read any of it, it's my own damn fault and I have no one else to blame but myself. It's real simple too.. if the subject line indicates it might be about aiming, don't open it. If a thread gets hijacked with aiming posts, don't read it anymore. Abandon it promptly!
There ya go! It works great and there's no one you can blame if you read aiming threads/posts. Except you.
Thinking about putting out a video or book about this, you guys think it'll sell?
You want some cheese to go with that...