Shooting off the rail

Houstoer said:
What the hell is the secret? I'm ok at it but not as good as I want to be especially with long shots where the cue ball is against the rail. I watched Jimmy Reid's videos and he says don't ever stop you backswing but when i do that I miss every time. I know practice will cure all just wanted to know if there is something someone does that helps. thanks !
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I myself often do this, and I am regarded as good at this kind of shots

- aim through the top of the cue ball (cue tip ahead of ball, not for stroke but for a eye-line of the shot), I do this with my bridge position that I WILL take my shot

- take some back swings to get used to the position and aim

- line up the shot on the cue, I try to stay as balance as possible on the cue (as parallel to the table surface as possible), sometimes I have to lift the butt up for stunt shots but I already had a fine locked aim and stroke ready

- strike the cue ball with most comfortable speed, this is when a firm set of back hand, bridge and a straight stroke are crucial

- no english is applied

I often do this step by step, take it slow because it can easily go wrong

I have done this for a long time and my skills on against-the-rail shots improved significantly. I can now do stunt shots on dead straight, long shots and long thin cut shots against the rail with a high success rate.

I don't have mentors, I just do it on my own thinking and it turns out great for me. hope this help.


Tin Man said:
OK, I've spent a LOT of time on this shot. Why? Well, when I was 17-18 and I played around the clock I shot them in like any other shot. These days they all look miss-able. In my quest to recapture the feel of my youth I have spent many, many hours practicing. Here's what I've found:

It is about sighting, not cueing. Here's what I mean. If the shot is easy, I have NO trouble delivering my cue. If I were to shoot the cue ball straight into a pocket, or if I'm kicking and aiming at a rail, it seems easy to make a good hit. If, on the other hand, I'm lagging a ball in that's in the middle of the table, my stroke seems to get more tentative. TRY IT OUT. Let me know if you find the same thing.

If you, like me, have no trouble shooting off the rail on kicks, hangers, etc., then face it. Your trouble isn't the bridge. It's a lack of confidence sighting the shot because you can't see the whole cue ball. I haven't found a great way to practice this, but I try to visualize the shot as if the rail wasn't there, then make sure I keep my line all the way into stance. SVB also does a lowering, even bobbing, technique. The point is to sight very well before getting down.

Finally, I recommend a flatter tip. I used to have a round tip, when I went to a flatter tip it seemed much easier to hit confidently.

OK, who's with me on this one?
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I am with you, the sight is the problem, that is why I have to vision and take aim at the top of the cue ball, I try to forget the cue ball and focus only on the stroke
 
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Micro - rail first as if to smidge overcut. Inside english helps. Good eyesight helps even more. If you merely try to cut, you'll cut the OB into the rail, hence the miss. With a sight overcut, the CB catches the ob while coming off the rail and does not drive the OB into the rail. Smooth stroke will release your tension.
 
manwon said:
I could not agree more, in fact the only thing I would add is a bottle of water and I don't mean the cheap stuff Evan or nothing!!!!!!:smile:
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Evian is cheap stuff? Well, I guess that's why when you spell it backwards, it's n-a-i-v-e. :p

-Sean
 
jay helfert said:
Listen up kids, when shooting at the cue ball on the rail, aim for the center axis of the cue ball and at the rail about a quarter of an inch BEHIND the cue ball. Yes I said aim at the rail directly behind the cue ball. You will NOT miscue and you WILL make a good hit! This one is not in any book yet :wink:.
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And stay down through the shot. Choking up a little on your grip on short shots can help also.
 
LAlouie said:
Micro - rail first as if to smidge overcut. Inside english helps. Good eyesight helps even more. If you merely try to cut, you'll cut the OB into the rail, hence the miss. With a sight overcut, the CB catches the ob while coming off the rail and does not drive the OB into the rail. Smooth stroke will release your tension.
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I think OP is referring to CB on rail, not OB on rail. But I could be wrong. Maybe.
 
jay helfert said:
Listen up kids, when shooting at the cue ball on the rail, aim for the center axis of the cue ball and at the rail about a quarter of an inch BEHIND the cue ball. Yes I said aim at the rail directly behind the cue ball. You will NOT miscue and you WILL make a good hit! This one is not in any book yet :wink:.
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Jay,
I've never heard this advice before, so I'll have to give this a try later tonight. Is the idea that you actually strike the rail with the tip of the cue first, or that the tip moving up and down during a pendulum stroke causes you to miss the rail and strike the cue ball?
 
LAlouie:
[with OB on rail:] If you merely try to cut, you'll cut the OB into the rail, hence the miss. With a sight overcut, the CB catches the ob while coming off the rail and does not drive the OB into the rail.
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Just an interesting detail: As you say, you have to overcut slightly because of throw (like any cut shot) and the CB has to hit the rail slightly first, but the CB can hit the OB while it's compressing the rail (i.e., still traveling into the rail) and still overcut the shot enough to make it - in other words, it doesn't have to be rebounding. That tiny difference shows in the angle the CB takes afterward.

pj
chgo
 
Matt said:
Jay,
I've never heard this advice before, so I'll have to give this a try later tonight. Is the idea that you actually strike the rail with the tip of the cue first, or that the tip moving up and down during a pendulum stroke causes you to miss the rail and strike the cue ball?
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Just try it Matt and let me know what you think. Shoot at the center line of the cue ball, aiming rail first to hit it. Yes, you will brush the rail on this stroke!
 
Jay I just went downstairs and hit about 20 shots flush to the rail like you described. Didn't miscue a single shot! Potted the balls (everything from a flush long-rail shot to a 50 degree in the side.)

Thanks for the tip Sir =)

~Roy
 
jay helfert said:
Just try it Matt and let me know what you think. Shoot at the center line of the cue ball, aiming rail first to hit it. Yes, you will brush the rail on this stroke!
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Thanks Jay; I'm trying it tonight as well. Lots of good info and tips in this post; thanks to everyone. If I could just post another thousand times and get one good tip on each I'd be a good player :grin:
 
poolguy4u said:
Try shooting off the rail with a 10mm tip or smaller. You'll be surprised how much easier it is. A big tip makes it harder 'cause you are forced to shoot higher on the cue ball.


If you think I'm crazy...well....:sorry:
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I don'tthink you are crazy, BUT.....How does a bigger tip force you to shoot higher on the cue ball?

Please explain
randyg
 
Houstoer said:
What the hell is the secret? I'm ok at it but not as good as I want to be especially with long shots where the cue ball is against the rail. I watched Jimmy Reid's videos and he says don't ever stop you backswing but when i do that I miss every time. I know practice will cure all just wanted to know if there is something someone does that helps. thanks !
Click to expand...


You asked, What the hell is the secret? Maybe this answer will not make SENSE, but like anything you do not do well.

PRACTICE IT!

People who do things well either have nature ability, or they work to master the TOOL or SKILL.

Like in this U-TUBE<<<<<----- I have this device, the Keller's Pro Justa-Bridge, look what an expert can do in 35 SECONDS.

BET HE Practices with it.:smile:
 
randyg said:
I don'tthink you are crazy, BUT.....How does a bigger tip force you to shoot higher on the cue ball?

Please explain
randyg
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With a smaller tip, the center of the tip is closer to the center of the cue ball. Might seem like a little bit but it makes a big difference.

You will also see more of the cue ball with a small tip.
 
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jay helfert said:
Listen up kids, when shooting at the cue ball on the rail, aim for the center axis of the cue ball and at the rail about a quarter of an inch BEHIND the cue ball. Yes I said aim at the rail directly behind the cue ball. You will NOT miscue and you WILL make a good hit! This one is not in any book yet :wink:.
Click to expand...

This works well. Give this a try.
 
Try downward pressure on the cue when stroking thru the ball. Players have a tendancy to lift the cue up while following thru the shot. Look up the Creative Edge on youtube, Pat Fleming addresses this in the video, It works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXhnGwL6aBY
7:19 of the video
You couldnt ask for a better teacher
 
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jay helfert said:
Listen up kids, when shooting at the cue ball on the rail, aim for the center axis of the cue ball and at the rail about a quarter of an inch BEHIND the cue ball. Yes I said aim at the rail directly behind the cue ball. You will NOT miscue and you WILL make a good hit! This one is not in any book yet :wink:.
Click to expand...

You gave this very helpful tip about 3 years ago on here. I had never heard of it before. I tried it and it worked very well. I think of you each time I have a tough rail shot. It's like a nightmare. Thanks Jay
 
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John Novak said:
Try downward pressure on the cue when stroking thru the ball. Players have a tendancy to lift the cue up while following thru the shot. Look up the Creative Edge on youtube, Pat Fleming addresses this in the video, It works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXhnGwL6aBY
7:19 of the video
You couldnt ask for a better teacher
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Not gonna lie. There was a lot to like about that video.

What other instructionals does this guy have? I learned several nifty things on there.

Big kudos to Jay on his tip as well. I can't wait to go home to try it out.
 
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