John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

Since Dr. Dave is a well-known authority on many pool topics, one can read the following link for a general overview of CTE aiming systems, with comments by other people too:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE

According to Dr. Dave, the BOTTOM LINE OF THE ANALYSIS :
Any align-and-pivot system like CTE requires changes in alignment and/or effective pivot length as the cut angle and shot distance change.
Personally, I think DAM is still a much simpler approach to basic center-ball aiming than any pivot-based system; although, like anything, it does requires practice. Regardless of which "aiming system" you use (even if you just "see the angle"), you still need to practice to develop and improve your "visual intelligence" and consistency, and you need to actually focus on aiming the shot. It also helps to have an effective and consistent pre-shot routine. Many aiming systems can help some people do this (for more info, see benefits of "aiming systems"). Also, when you use English, you need to compensate your aim to account for squirt, swerve, and throw.​

And he essentially says here that it's beneficial. This thread is however about PROFESSIONAL opinions of the systems and our discussion of it. Would you be so kind as to show us Mr. Alciatore's professional billiard accomplishments? He is a highly regarded documentarian of the various physics of pool but I don't see where his opinion of these methods, which he has no video proof of, fit into this discussion. I very much love to see Dr. Dave linking to his excellent videos and can watch them for hours. But on this subject I cannot find a single video that Mr. Alciatore has done to back up his opinions on the subject. I will admit that I could have missed it so I will rely on your help to point me to it if such videos exist.



For Roger Long's comments about CTE, you can read the following articles:
CTE has had a long sordid history involving years and years of online pool forum debates. For more background, see Roger Longs series of articles on the topic: "CTE: Miracle Fix, or Mystical Tricks?" (Round 1, Round 2, Round 3).
http://www.azbilliards.com/rogerlong/roger4.php
http://www.azbilliards.com/rogerlong/roger5.php
http://www.azbilliards.com/rogerlong/roger6.php

Mr. Long does not know the proper techniques of CTE, nor does he know the method Mr. Shuffett teaches as far as I know. So it's a bit presumptious of Mr. Long to write any sort of article on the value of a method he himself does not understand. I would like to say that I do not know if in the interim between writing this article and the present time if Mr. Long has aquired the knowledge of CTE. I do know that Mr. Long is a BCA certfied instructor and that many of the master instructors who certified him are also teachers of CTE methods. So perhaps the question of whether CTE is of value should have been posed by him to his fellow instructors. I would have enjoyed an article written from that perspective.


Lou Figueroa wrote a detailed review which can be found at the following link: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2871644&postcount=77
The entire thread can be found here and makes for interesting reading: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=221106

And Mr. Figueroa is a long time opponent of any sort of aiming systems. Prior to Mr. Shuffett's DVD coming out Mr. Figueroa was busy labeling Mr. Shuffett a con-artist, a snake-oil salesman, and similar unflattering characterizations. In the review he dismisses the content in the first few minutes.

But the telling part is the bottom line:

"For me, in all honesty, if Mosconi hisself came back from the grave and told me this was the greatest thing since sliced bread I’d tell him to go back and take a nap. This one is not a keeper, for me, and if anyone wants to buy a lightly used copy for $30, shipping included, please PM me for a PayPal address.

Lou Figueroa
all the above
JMHO, of course "

So, ask yourself how any person on the earth can possibly have any influence on Mr. Figueroa's opinion if even the great Willie Mosconi would be told he is wrong by Mr. Figueroa. That Mr. Figueroa would write a scathing review was the expected result. That Mr. Figueroa would take the time to try it on the table was hoped for, that Mr. Figueroa would invest some time to take the free phone support offered by Mr. Shuffett was also open to him. He did neither as far as I can tell from the review.

So honestly it's very difficult to accept the review of a known opponent who won't do even the smallest amount of table time to try the methods on the table. Which is why I said, throw out the low scores, which this is, throw out the high marks which would be an overzealous testimonial and take the averages.

So I am going to assume that this is your entry into the testimonials category? If so thanks and I will get busy finding the positive ones. We can let the readers decide which ones to throw out.

Meanwhile, you can start right here: http://justcueit.com/testimonials.html

These include testimonials about the aiming method and more importantly about Stan Shuffett's knowledge and ability as an instructor. Some of the testimonials are from professional players and very good amateurs.

http://justcueit.com/testimonials.html
 
So I am going to assume that this is your entry into the testimonials category? If so thanks and I will get busy finding the positive ones. We can let the readers decide which ones to throw out.

Meanwhile, you can start right here: http://justcueit.com/testimonials.html

These include testimonials about the aiming method and more importantly about Stan Shuffett's knowledge and ability as an instructor. Some of the testimonials are from professional players and very good amateurs.

http://justcueit.com/testimonials.html
You're being very clever in attempting to change the terms of the deal. You should be looking for REVIEWS not testimonials.
"Make you a deal. You post all the negative reviews you can find and when you are done I will post links to all the positive ones "
 
For balance let's read what Mr. Agzugin has to say about CTE:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=267824

Mr. Agzugin, like Mr. Figueroa, was a distinguished member of the armed forces. Mr. Agzugin was in the Marines and Mr. Figueroa was in the Air Force. Not that this means anything but people do like to compare. I believe that both gentlemen have about the same level of pool ability and perhaps Mr. Agzugin has the edge in tournament and gambling victories.

Mr. Agzugin is a large proponent of aiming systems after being on the fence about them for a while. His enthusiasm apparently comes from the results he is getting after learning the CTE/Pro One method from Stan Shuffet directly. So in that sense Mr. Agzugin has a distinct experiential advantage over Mr. Figueroa who has only had the dvd to use and who refuses to even call Mr. Shuffett to discuss what he does not understand.

However you can read Mr. Agzugin's thoughts on the subject and also see several other testimonials of bearable length from other CTE users. Feel free to discount any that you want for whatever reason but please take note that in the entire thread there is not one person who says that they tried CTE/ProOne and found it to be bogus. Nor is there any negaitve review of it by any user in that thread.
 
You're being very clever in attempting to change the terms of the deal. You should be looking for REVIEWS not testimonials.
"Make you a deal. You post all the negative reviews you can find and when you are done I will post links to all the positive ones "

I consider a testimonial to be a review. I will endeavor to find more in depth ones for you. So lets amend the wording to include reviews and testimonials. I am sure you have nothing against testimonials do you?

Also if you read through the ones posted on the www.justcueit.com website you will find that many of them do go into detail as to the components of the instruction and why they feel it helps.

Below are some postive reviews - in the threads are also more positive reviews. When I have time I will list the links to each single testimonial/reviews that is positive. You can do the negatives and we will compare later.

Another positive review - http://www.billiardsthegame.com/cte-pivot-aiming-a-review-244

Another positive review - http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=263166

Another positive review - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=186656

Another positive review - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=222179#post2888315

Couple positive testimonials - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=248675#post3245604

Another positive testimonial - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=122855

A positive observation - http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2926514&postcount=23

The postive CTE Experience of James Roberts - http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=225328&highlight=ProOne

Another positive testimonial - http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2926759&postcount=51

Another positive testimonial - http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2725300&postcount=19

Another positve testimonial - http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2725422&postcount=21

Another positive testimonial - http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2725732&postcount=25

Another positive testimonial - http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2725933&postcount=30

Long description of lessons with Stan Shuffett - http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=208952&highlight=ProOne

Eyewitness account of Stan Shuffet's instruction - http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2704642&postcount=7

A testimonial to Stan Shuffet's ability by John Brumback and others - http://forums2.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=247179&highlight=ProOne

22 positive reviews/testimonials - http://justcueit.com/testimonials.html - Among them Gerda Hofstatter, Matt Krah, James Roberts, Stevie Moore, Louis Ulrich, Yu Ram Cha, Phil Burford - all professional or semi-pro players.

I will keep adding to this as I find them and after some time we should have a pretty good list of positive and negative testimonials/reviews to use.
 
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For balance let's read what Mr. Agzugin has to say about CTE:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=267824

Mr. Agzugin, like Mr. Figueroa, was a distinguished member of the armed forces. Mr. Agzugin was in the Marines and Mr. Figueroa was in the Air Force. Not that this means anything but people do like to compare. I believe that both gentlemen have about the same level of pool ability and perhaps Mr. Agzugin has the edge in tournament and gambling victories.

Mr. Agzugin is a large proponent of aiming systems after being on the fence about them for a while. His enthusiasm apparently comes from the results he is getting after learning the CTE/Pro One method from Stan Shuffet directly. So in that sense Mr. Agzugin has a distinct experiential advantage over Mr. Figueroa who has only had the dvd to use and who refuses to even call Mr. Shuffett to discuss what he does not understand.

However you can read Mr. Agzugin's thoughts on the subject and also see several other testimonials of bearable length from other CTE users. Feel free to discount any that you want for whatever reason but please take note that in the entire thread there is not one person who says that they tried CTE/ProOne and found it to be bogus. Nor is there any negaitve review of it by any user in that thread.
Roadie,

I'm afraid you're going to have to scratch any reviews by Mr. Agzugin as I question his objectivity on a number of different points.
1. Since review compensation has been a issue in many threads, there is the question of whether Mr. Agzugin has received any compensation whatsoever for writing his reviews of various products?
2. Given Mr. Agzugin's marketing and sales background, he's amply demonstrated numerous times his talent for embellishing facts. In the thread you cite, the title of the thread "Aiming Systems - THE COMPLETE TRUTH" illustrates his penchant for grandiose embellishment and hyperbolic marketing.
3. Finally, since you're taking great pains to point out the accomplishments and credentials that the reviewing author has, I think it's important to point out Mr. Agzugin's jihadist propaganda postings such as this one may further disqualify him from writing objective, unbiased reviews: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3315816&postcount=11
 
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I consider a testimonial to be a review. I will endeavor to find more in depth ones for you. So lets amend the wording to include reviews and testimonials. I am sure you have nothing against testimonials do you?
You may consider a testimonial to be a review but I certainly don't. Generally speaking, reviews are held to a much higher standard for evaluating things than testimonials are. Since you've unilaterally amended the terms of the deal, it appears that you've broken our deal. In the real world, I hope you don't conduct your business and personal affairs in this manner.
 
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Roadie,

I'm afraid you're going to have to scratch any reviews by Mr. Agzugin as I question his objectivity on a number of different points.
1. Since review compensation has been a issue in many threads, there is the question of whether Mr. Agzugin has received any compensation whatsoever for writing his reviews of various products?
2. Given Mr. Agzugin's marketing and sales background, he's amply demonstrated numerous times his talent for embellishing facts. In the thread you cite, the title of the thread "Aiming Systems - THE COMPLETE TRUTH" illustrates his penchant for grandiose embellishment and hyperbolic marketing.
3. Finally, since you're taking great pains to point out the accomplishments and credentials that the reviewing author has, I think it's important to point out Mr. Agzugin's jihadist propaganda postings such as this one may further disqualify him from writing objective, unbiased reviews: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3315816&postcount=11

Jihadistic? :-) That's an interesting way to describe a Marine's writing. Especially considering that we are speaking of methods to play pool. But I do certainly understand your point. Which is why I say we toss out Mr. Agzugin's reviews, as nicely written as they are, AND we toss out Mr. Figueroa's reviews, as nicely written as they are. It should be pointed out that Mr. Figueroa also had a marketing job as a Public Relations Officer for the Pentagon if I remember correctly.

So you have posted a link to Mr. Figueroa's work and I to Mr. Agzugin's. For the final count we arrive at we can agree to not include either man's opinion on the merits of the system alright? However the readers can and certainly should read both men's work and decide for themselves who makes the better case if they like. I, for one, find them both highly entertaining.

Also I am fairly certain that Mr. Agzugin has not received any compensation for any of the products and services he has written about. I have corresponded with him and find him to be a man of very high integrity.
 
Corey wasn’t giving a deposition and this isn’t a court of law, though you’re trying to parse what happened on the video as if it were.QUOTE]

Not really. I am simply interpreting what watched the way I see it.



So then let's just talk about Mr. Schmidt's comments. If the pros scoff at aiming systems then why do some pros use them? Why do some pros endorse them? I could understand the endorsing if they are getting paid but not the use since using an aiming system directly affects their job performance. So clearly John Schmidt doesn't speak for ALL the pros.



Silence is not agreement. Mr. Duell BARELY got a chance to speak during the whole segment. When he DID attempt to show his method he was shut down by Mr. Schmidt.

I have spoken with Mr. Duell and this young man has an extremely creative mind and is always tinkering with how to play the game. I don't believe for a second that he scoffs at aiming systems. What I think Mr. Schmidt is upset about is the idea that using an aiming system is a magic pill. On that I fully agree with him.




With the exception that an atheist is railing against having faith in a deity that is invisible and otherwise not detectable. A person who has something positive to say about Mr. Shuffett's dvd has something concrete to review. They have instructions to follow, they have extra support over the phone, they have extra support from the community to learn the physical steps to approaching the physical balls on the very real table. Then the measure becomes whether they get better or not. There is no faith needed. It is simply a template that is very real and reviewable.




Well I think that this pro was generally ranting. He made a lot of comments that were non-sequiturs, meaning that the conclusion did not follow the premises.




Excellent. Now we can talk about them.



This sounds like the classic intro to a rant.




So he is saying here that he has either tried them all or hasn't tried many or any?



Well here Mr. Schmidt is wrong because swerve and deflection are factored in. And then Mr. Schmidt goes on to speak about delivery which is separate from aiming. We all agree that delivery is another very important part of the game. But first you aim then you deliver. Never the other way around.

So Mr. Schmidt is saying it's all about delivery but then he goes on to say that IF the aiming systems work that everyone would play like pros. The line about 4 million people playing like Corey is a classic rant line with little logic because Mr. Schmidt JUST SAID that even if you aim perfect it's still about delivery - which is what we all say.




Has Mr. Shuffett ever pontificated about his own greatness? No. Has Mr. Shuffet been out there winning tournaments and posting great results? Yes. How about Mr. Shuffett's students? The answer to that is clear.

With the revelation that Mr. Schmidt has been a guest in Mr. Shuffett's house TWICE and is a coach to Landon Shuffett in 14.1 I would not be surprised if Mr. Schmidt didn't want to amend the comments above.




I have spoken to Mr. Moore through facebook and he has clearly not tricked himself. Again John Schmidt is out of line speaking about his colleagues as if he knows more about them than they personally know about themselves. How about we get TAR to let Stevie Moore have some airtime on a podcast and let him address the comments?




Ok. I am sure TAR can line that up. Darren Appleton, Shane Van Boeing, Stevie Moore are all standing by to accept weight. Oh, you mean the amateurs who are not able to spend the time hitting a milliion balls?? Those are the guys who can get weight? Now Mr. Schmidt asked the question, probably meant rhetorically, what system will account for the shot he set up? CTE works for that shot and any other shot that Mr. Schmidt cares to ask about. That is easy to demonstrate.




So this would indicate that Mr. Duell has been thinking about some systems. Not exactly a "scoff" as Mr. Schmidt claims the pros do about aimign systems.




And as already proven not all pros scoff at them.




Of course you won't get good if ALL you have is a system. An aiming system is simply a way to look at the shot. Once you learn it you have to practice with it until it becomes a natural part of your game. That's where the bleeding hands come in. I would bet a million dollars that if I were on the range next to Mr. Schmidt and absolutely flailing out there for hours that Mr. Schmidt would step over and offer me some instruction on how to improve my stance in order to improve my consistency. If he truly beleives that all that's required is to hit balls then he would never attempt to help anyone else ever.




And this is what it comes down to. He was ranting, not speaking technically, not showing the inner workings of any particular system, just ranting about the general idea that a system can replace hard work. Which is something that none of the proponents of CTE in the last four years have said on AZB to my knowledge. However it's quite easy to understand Mr. Schmidt's frustration when he sees super long threads about this with people threatening to kill each other over how to approach a shot.

I will bet that if Mr. Schmidt and Mr. Stan Shuffett get together and Mr. Shuffett has time to show Mr. Schmidt how it works in detail that Mr. Schmidt will change his mind. If that happens will you you treat him like you said you would treat Mr. Mosconi and tell John Schmidt that he is wrong as well?


From previous conversations with John on this topic, I would say that he was talking about the pros he knows and runs with. Are there a handful of pros that claim to use an aiming system, yes, but to date they are the very small minority. And it should be noted: people "endorse" things for a wide variety of reasons, from monetary remuneration, to just helping out a peer, friend, or relative (whether they actually use the thing or not). As to Corey, it was clear, at least to me, that he was in agreement with John or he could have just said five little words: “No, I think they work.” My point about aiming "believers" (even with the head dude available by phone), is that believers will always be more vocal than the non-believers, whatever the issue.

You seem to be focused on this concept of “ranting” repeatedly using the word in one post. John can be very animated and emphatic when he talks. Having personally spoken to him several times I did not take it as a rant.

What I believe John was saying is that, to date, he has not come across a system that works. (He does plays a bit of pool all across the country.) I watched the DVD and, as I recall, there was no explanation on how to factor in swerve and deflection and squirt -- the factors John mentions. Please explain how the system factors these in.

And so John has been over to Stan’s house. Maybe that’s why he had so much to get off his chest about aiming systems :-)

If you want Stevie on TAR, contact Justin. As to the guys getting weight, taken in the general context of the discussion, I would say it’s clear he was talking about all of us on AZ Billiards banging on about aiming systems. Of course, in your courtroom-like manner, you want to turn that into a challenge to Darren Appleton, in which John will offer up weight, lol.

And as you said, Corey is a pretty creative guy. But even so, he plainly says he couldn’t get his mind around the aiming system involving pivoting -- that’s obviously an indictment that system and that, on its face, doesn’t make sense. On the golf range, John might help you, but it wouldn’t be by trying to teach you an aiming system.

And if Stan and John get together I will await John’s “rant” on the merits of CTE. But I ain’t holdin’ my breath.

Lou Figueroa
 
I would tend to assume that Mr. Duell is speaking of the system that Stevie Moore uses. And Mr. Duell clearly states his lack of understanding of that system. He does not say that he finds it to be worthless or overrated.

At this point in the video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8KsVm9ePlk&feature=player_detailpage#t=1543s Mr. Duell attempts to explain what he does and he is not allowed to really develop his point. But he clearly says that it is his opinion that a person should "aim the cue ball" not the cue stick. He says "like this" in preparation to show what he means and Mr. Schmidt immediately jumps in to interrupt him.

Where Mr. Schmidt is not correct is the assumption that a player thinks that he can simply learn a method and then instantly be good. The fact is that a player should learn something and THEN put in the time. This video is simply Mr. Schmidt showing his frustration at the idea that an aiming system makes a player. We all know that there is no single aspect of the game that makes a player. It's mastery of all aspects plus a giant portion of heart and nerves that make a player.

Imagine if Mr. Schmidt is wrong and the aiming systems ARE a better way to LOOK at the shot and they take a few weeks to really master. THEN after that initial time spent getting VERY comfortable with the aiming method the player can spend the next 999,000 balls perfecting the delivery, leanring the cue, understanding how much adjsutment is needed off the basline, figuring out speed and touch, along the journey to becoming a great player. Imagine if players were fully grounded in the art of aiming before they spent a lot of time on the other aspects. What sort of players could they become?

The anaolgy of throwing a baseball to first base is not right. In baseball they don't simply set you up and tell you to throw until you get it. Instead you are taught the proper form, you are taught HOW to throw according to the best practice for accuracy. You are taught to do all these things in practice so that when it's game time you can do it instantly.

How to Throw A Baseball


Corey says he couldn’t comprehend it. To me that means it didn’t make sense. As to the baseball analogy there’s a lot of stuff out there on technique but I didn’t come across an aiming system for throwing a baseball, which was, after all, John’s point.

Lou Figueroa
 
You may consider a testimonial to be a review but I certainly don't. Generally speaking, reviews are held to a much higher standard for evaluating things than testimonials are. Since you've unilaterally amended the terms of the deal, it appears that you've broken our deal. In the real world, I hope you don't conduct your business and personal affairs in this manner.

:-) I am sorry but I didn't realize that we had an actual deal. Didn't you post that you were not going to go off and do my research for me? I was under the impression that we were not having any sort of contest. This is all just a silly way to pass time however and either of us can amend our words at any time without dire consequences. Or do you have somethiing at stake in the outcome that I am not aware of? I wouldn't want to participate in anything that could result in harm to you, whether physically or pyschologically.

In the real world I regularly lie and cheat, it's how I have amassed my vast fortune so that I can afford to spend my time having an army of servants typing in my response at the rate of one letter per person. Just imagine a vast sea of people typing one letter of every word I utter. It was extremely expensive to train them but I do pay well for my indulgences.
 
For balance let's read what Mr. Agzugin has to say about CTE:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=267824

Mr. Agzugin, like Mr. Figueroa, was a distinguished member of the armed forces. Mr. Agzugin was in the Marines and Mr. Figueroa was in the Air Force. Not that this means anything but people do like to compare. I believe that both gentlemen have about the same level of pool ability and perhaps Mr. Agzugin has the edge in tournament and gambling victories.

Mr. Agzugin is a large proponent of aiming systems after being on the fence about them for a while. His enthusiasm apparently comes from the results he is getting after learning the CTE/Pro One method from Stan Shuffet directly. So in that sense Mr. Agzugin has a distinct experiential advantage over Mr. Figueroa who has only had the dvd to use and who refuses to even call Mr. Shuffett to discuss what he does not understand.

However you can read Mr. Agzugin's thoughts on the subject and also see several other testimonials of bearable length from other CTE users. Feel free to discount any that you want for whatever reason but please take note that in the entire thread there is not one person who says that they tried CTE/ProOne and found it to be bogus. Nor is there any negaitve review of it by any user in that thread.


lol. I saw Joey down in Tunica and we chatted for quite a while. And we discussed a possible joint venture in the future. He even offered to buy me a drink, but of course didn’t. (Just kidding, Joey :-) But, as everyone here knows, Joey is a bit “loose” with his endorsements. (Galveston, anyone?) Just as one example: a little ways back I mentioned how I was questioned on an endorsement I gave to a DVD and how I was fulling forthcoming on my prior relationship with the producer (none) and that I personally paid for the product. On at least one occasion when Joey was quizzed about receiving free product for an endorsement he replied: that is no one’s business but mine. A few months back, when I was sent free product, I refused to do a review.

All endorsements are not created equal ;-)

Lou Figueroa
 
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Corey says he couldn’t comprehend it. To me that means it didn’t make sense. As to the baseball analogy there’s a lot of stuff out there on technique but I didn’t come across an aiming system for throwing a baseball, which was, after all, John’s point.

Lou Figueroa

What is not revealed is whether Corey is speaking of the CTE/Pro1 system, nor what sort of instruction he has had in it. So it's quite a stretch to infer so much from that one comment.

Regarding the throwing of baseballs the point is that there is a LOT of information out there about the techniques to throw a baseball and not everyone agrees on them. Throwing a baseball accurately is not something that people learn by simply picking up a ball and picking a target and throwing a million balls at it. It is a learned skill with a generally accepted range of motion and plenty of debate on the nuances.

An aiming system is a physical technique to align the body to the shot. It's not any different than a coach telling a baseball player the proper way to align themselves when throwing to a target.

Baseball throwing system - http://www.helpful-baseball-drills.com/howtothrowabaseball.html
 
What is not revealed is whether Corey is speaking of the CTE/Pro1 system, nor what sort of instruction he has had in it. So it's quite a stretch to infer so much from that one comment.

Regarding the throwing of baseballs the point is that there is a LOT of information out there about the techniques to throw a baseball and not everyone agrees on them. Throwing a baseball accurately is not something that people learn by simply picking up a ball and picking a target and throwing a million balls at it. It is a learned skill with a generally accepted range of motion and plenty of debate on the nuances.

An aiming system is a physical technique to align the body to the shot. It's not any different than a coach telling a baseball player the proper way to align themselves when throwing to a target.

Baseball throwing system - http://www.helpful-baseball-drills.com/howtothrowabaseball.html


Not much of a stretch -- how many aiming systems incorporate a pivot?

And, there's lots of information about technique at pool too -- I have shelves of the stuff. So I ask again: where is the aiming system for throwing a baseball?

Lou Figueroa
 
lol. I saw Joey down in Tunica and we chatted for quite a while. And we discussed a possible joint venture in the future. He even offered to buy me a drink, but of course didn’t. (Just kidding, Joey :-) But, as everyone here knows, Joey is a bit “loose” with his endorsements. (Galveston, anyone?) Just as one example: a little ways back I mentioned how I was questioned on an endorsement I gave to a DVD and how I was fulling forthcoming on my prior relationship with the producer (none) and that I personally paid for the product. On at least one occasion when Joey was quizzed about receiving free product for an endorsement he replied: that is no one’s business but mine. A few months back, when I was sent free product, I refused to do a review.

All endorsements are not created equal ;-)

Lou Figueroa

Nor are all reviews. :-)
 
Not much of a stretch -- how many aiming systems incorporate a pivot?

And, there's lots of information about technique at pool too -- I have shelves of the stuff. So I ask again: where is the aiming system for throwing a baseball?

Lou Figueroa

Well if you want to put words in Mr. Duell's mouth based on the one sentence he spoke about not getting some system then be my guest. You still don't know what efforts Mr. Duell undertook to attempt to learn the system if any. It could have been nothing more than a passing conversation with Stevie Moore that lasted a few minutes or it could have been hours of deep introspection that never led to enlightenment.

I don't know if there are systems for throwing baseballs in the same vein as we are discussing here. But it appears that there are accepted techiques which are taught. Not simply put a baseball in the hand and throw it. No matter what the techniques for throwing a baseball are probably far advanced from the technqies in Abner Doubleday's time. Which is the point really. Why not try the newer techniques?
 
Well if you want to put words in Mr. Duell's mouth based on the one sentence he spoke about not getting some system then be my guest. You still don't know what efforts Mr. Duell undertook to attempt to learn the system if any. It could have been nothing more than a passing conversation with Stevie Moore that lasted a few minutes or it could have been hours of deep introspection that never led to enlightenment.


Roadie,

I know this to be true. Corey lost to Phil Burford 11-2 at the 2011 U S Open.
Corey did have some discussion(s) with Phil and Phil indicated to me that aiming was a topic to some degree.

Corey did come up to me after his match with Phil and shook my shoulders with both hands and asked, "What are you teaching those boys?" More was said.....

Well, I will extend an invitation for Corey to visit my home and I will train him in CTE PRO ONE. Then Corey can share with this forum or during his next podcast his thoughts about CTE.

I sincerely believe that Corey would leave with a renewed interest in his game should he accept my 2013 invitation.

I think it would be great for everyone for Pros like Corey and John to report their first-hand experiences with what I am teaching concerning aiming.

Stan Shuffett
 
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Well, I will extend an invitation for Corey to visit my home and I will train him in CTE PRO ONE. Then Corey can share with this forum or during his next podcast his thoughts about CTE.

I sincerely believe that Corey would leave with a renewed interest in his game should he accept my 2013 invitation.

I think it would be great for everyone for Pros like Corey and John to report their first-hand experiences with what I am teaching concerning aiming.

Stan Shuffett
Stan,
Your offer to invite Corey or John to personally learn CTE/Pro1 is certainly a gracious offer that I hope they can benefit from...and share with us their experiences.
 
Mr. Shuffett, I do not know you, and you probably don't know me.. It is not my intent to try and discredit you (or JoeyA, or John Barton) on yall's obvious support of 'aiming systems'..I am simply, firmly in the HAMB camp, as I have been all my playing life..over 60 years. (I am 78 yrs. old).. I am not too old to learn, but..."old dogs, new tricks, etc" !

I firmly agree with John and Corey in their assessment of aiming systems. I am also quite sure you will admit, you have hit well OVER 2 million balls, and Landon has probably hit over 1 million...You have every right to be proud of Landon's performance (and your own) of late, but how much credit can you actually give to CTE, as opposed to HAMB?

My main point is, would you or your son, be where you are now, had it not been for your HAMB experience ?.. I will be glad to say I was wrong, if you or Landon, can prove you could have become proficient at a game such as 'one pocket' where the components of 'squirt, swerve, and pinpoint cue ball control' are much more demanding, then 9 or 10 ball ever could be.

I am sure you are an honorable man, and you have convinced yourself, (and your son) that CTE Pro 1, is a valuable learning tool, worthy of teaching and promoting for sale..The only problem I have with this is... NO ONE, including yourself, has been able to adequately "explain" just how it works.
JoeyA, Barton, and MANY others have gone bananas, trying to explain it, and defend it..Usually contradicting each other, repeatedly. Why is that ?..That is how you wound up with your very own "aiming system" forum ! Every thread was a flame war !..Here is as close an explaination as I can find;..



Respectfully,

Dick Mc Morran--aka, San Jose Dick, (or SuperDuck)

PS..Note to JoeyA and John B;..I am hoping Mr Shuffett can explain CTE Pro One better than either of you have done...I think you may be doing him a disservice, as every NEW 'aiming system' that surfaces, you guys send in your $$$$ ...trying to elevate yourselves above an APA 3...Make up your mind, willya !.:confused: :rolleyes: :grin: :grin: :grin:

PSS..Sorry, I just stumbled across this...I will butt out of your 'Private Forum'.....:o

Interesting there was no reply to some of the questions put forth in this post.

Like was it cte or HAMB that has helped the most.

Me thinks it is because HAMB was what helped the most and not cte nor any system used.
 
Interesting there was no reply to some of the questions put forth in this post.

Like was it cte or HAMB that has helped the most.

Me thinks it is because HAMB was what helped the most and not cte nor any system used.

More likely Mr. Shuffet hasn't seen it or has forgotten about it in the sea of other posts.

CTE is independent of HAMB. No one can escape table time. It's what knowledge you work on with your table time that is the key. Do you spend precious minutes laying out paper arrows or do you refine an approach that requires no external devices?
 
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