10 YEAR OLD TIME CAPSULE POST ...Is the world ready for cues to evolve?

evolution?

The truth is......pool cues have been evolving for years. Not always in a positive direction but new approaches are introduced on a regular basis. Cues have been constructed from non-traditional materials like aluminum and graphite just to name a couple and we all know about LD shafts and the developement of layered and resin tips...there have been a variety of different joints introduced in recent years......the list goes on and on.

Evolution is quite often a slow process. I think the OP may have been looking for revolution....not evolution.
 
jhanso18 said:
Cues are so different today than they were 30-40 years ago it's crazy. LD shafts, coring, g10 pins and other weight distribution techniques. Not to mention the fact that there are thousands of DIY custom cue builders out there, when there use to be like 10 custom builders in the entire world. On top of that add a computerized tooling system like CNC, and insane designs start coming out.

Your analogy sounds like this, "The modern day car 30-40 years ago, had 4 tires, a steering wheel, and an gas/break pedal. When will we see some inovation???"

I understand what your getting at, and the changes are not that drastic to most people, but if you started disecting the stuff they built in the 50,60,70's vs. today, with some one like Keith Hanssen, who has been at it for 30+ years, you would be able to identify the differences. (I say Keith, because that's my builder and he has personally shown me some differences. I'm sure there are plenty out there that can do the same.)


In addition, if it's not broke, don't fix it! ;)

best,

Justin
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Cues are assembled with different materials and techniques however they remain mostly identical. The LD shafts, are not universally accepted as better or even used by the majority of overall players. The assembly techniques, glues, pins, etc.. are all just materials. The coring, again, is debatable. Compare a cue to lets say a pie. You might like lemon, I like apple, look the same, made the same approximately, pies are unchanged for hundreds of years. I do not see cues like other items used in other sports, they will remain unchanged for another 100 years.

There is a butt, a shaft, a tip.. its been this way forever. Plus factor in the most important feature, you can give an open player a 125 year old Brunswick and he is likely to kick your tail with you using whatever the "best" cue is technically today. Which only shows the minimal importance of "cue" performance vs talent.

JV
 
Pool cues haven't changed?

CreeDo said:
I don't think it's about tradition.

The difference between cues and other examples like clubs, rackets, baseball bats, etc... is that those games are more athletic and the equipment is designed to enhance power hits, to make the ball go further... so the player can hit hard without working hard.

When pool is played correctly, most shots are not hit very hard and there's no need for excessive spin. With plain wood, you can play the highest level pool and compete with anyone. So there's really no incentive to use other materials. You might find a tip that grips the CB more and therefore applies more spin, but that isn't always desirable, you don't want a hair of accidental english to turn into something extreme.

Pool cues haven't changed much probably for the same reason basketballs and boxing gloves haven't.

Imagine players complaining if someday they made a special 'draw cue' for extreme draw shots, using a rubber tip or something, where a player can put a weak stroke on a long draw shot and still bring whitey back the length of the table. "Back in my day you needed a real stroke to do that shot, not some fancy special cue!"
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If you look at pool history, you'll find that cues have changed dramatically, from the days when you pushed the cue ball with a completely wooden "mace".

When the leather tip was introduced, players said it would change the game and ruin it.

The ferrule was invented to prevent wooden cues from splitting.
The tip was invented to gain more control of the cue ball.
The jointed cue was invented for convenience.
Aluminum cues, laminated cues, spliced cues, etc., were invented to prevent warping.
Break cues were invented to save wear and tear on shooting cues.
Jump cues were invented to add interest in the game.

Evolution is a natural thing, opposed only by those uncomfortable with change...

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
Rules, to a certain extent, dictate how a pool cue will look and perform. If memory serves, rubber tips, are not permitted in sanctioned events.
Still, there is a lot that could be changed.
We here at Steamer Cue Sports Ltd., have been exploring a number of ways that would enhance the playability, safety, and portability of the pool cue.
For instance: We are developing a cue that is entirely filled with Helium. A player never needs to set it down. Just let it float there in space within easy reach.
Also under development is a cue with a compartment in the butt that would carry a players lunch, as well as a hot or cold beverage, and silverware.
Our most promising prospect is a cue that comes in it's own case. Simply press a hidden button on the side and the shaft shoots out the end, much like a switchblade knife. Press the button again and the shaft extends even further, eliminating the need for a crutch.
So there you have it. The future of the pool cue is alive and well here at Steamer Cue Sports. :smile:
 
Technology used to evolve because it solved a problem or refined a design (made it cheaper, lighter, etc.) Now, we're just doing shit because we can and then screaming "PROGRESS!" When something can go decades without major changes, it means we got it right and can move on to other things. Changing something just because we blindly believe that "different is better" is a waste of time and effort. And honestly, I think a nice wood cue has a simple, classic elegance: something that is lost in our current society.

- matthew <- painted go-faster stripes on his cue but has not seen a marked improvement in its speed...
 
Technology still evolves...

krupa said:
Technology used to evolve because it solved a problem or refined a design (made it cheaper, lighter, etc.) Now, we're just doing shit because we can and then screaming "PROGRESS!" When something can go decades without major changes, it means we got it right and can move on to other things. Changing something just because we blindly believe that "different is better" is a waste of time and effort. And honestly, I think a nice wood cue has a simple, classic elegance: something that is lost in our current society.

- matthew <- painted go-faster stripes on his cue but has not seen a marked improvement in its speed...
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I totally agree. But, technology didn't stop evolving, it merely changed to where technology is virtually always used for profit ONLY, rather than solving a problem...

Keep in mind, also, that PROGRESS is in the eye of the beholder.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
DrOnePocket said:
Carbon Fiber is pretty expensive. I know about the cheap offerings from walmart and the sporting goods stores. You are missing the point. I won't explain as I can't see any benefit
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Well, I am using now a McDermott Element until I buy a Players HXT E20. Here is the description of the cue by McDermott:

"Element pool cues feature F2 Dual Fiber Core Technology that utilizes multiple strands of thin carbon fiber, overlapped and reinforced with our resin fiber-polymer. This combination makes them incredibly strong for their weight. The high strength-to-weight ratio provides optimal balance and durability while maximizing the power and stability of your stroke."

The cue hits good, and the shaft has a little low deflection although they don't market like a LD one. The hit sound is ok, it has a Stainless Steel 3/8"-10 joint pin. I don't like that it has a laminated shaft although very smooth, looks funny/cheesy. Overall, it is a very good cue for the price they are selling it. BTW the cue sells for $99 and I get it for $20 bucks, Fathers day, from one of the best players in my town, who are using now a Jian Ying "custom" cue, hehe:D and he likes it, go figure!
 
What about precision surgical pins (radial), layered tips, epoxy, acrylates, advanced clear coats, advanced plastics, CNC design and machining, resin impregnating, laminated shafts, study of deflection & solutions to it, microwave assist vacuum dried wood that was cut on a laser guided mill, all the countless exotics available from any corner of the globe, etc., etc., etc.? An accomplished builder nowadays virtually has no need for sandpaper anymore. We can glue metal to wood to plastic and it hold indefinitely. A builder now can create any design that your mind can imagine.

Cues are evolved far beyond the cues of the past. Simply because a builder or buyer prefers a classic look, doesn't mean the cues aren't modern. No builder today is going to use liquid hide glue for the "A" joint, or single point cut then hand sand a taper on a shaft & hope the second shaft will be close to matching. I doubt many builders would even know how to mix hide glue properly, and some likely don't even know what it is. But it's all Rambo had. We have evolved with technology, and with it so has our cues. You may not see it but it's unquestionably there.
 
qbilder said:
What about precision surgical pins (radial), layered tips, epoxy, acrylates, advanced clear coats, advanced plastics, CNC design and machining, resin impregnating, laminated shafts, study of deflection & solutions to it, microwave assist vacuum dried wood that was cut on a laser guided mill, all the countless exotics available from any corner of the globe, etc., etc., etc.? An accomplished builder nowadays virtually has no need for sandpaper anymore. We can glue metal to wood to plastic and it hold indefinitely. A builder now can create any design that your mind can imagine.

Cues are evolved far beyond the cues of the past. Simply because a builder or buyer prefers a classic look, doesn't mean the cues aren't modern. No builder today is going to use liquid hide glue for the "A" joint, or single point cut then hand sand a taper on a shaft & hope the second shaft will be close to matching. I doubt many builders would even know how to mix hide glue properly, and some likely don't even know what it is. But it's all Rambo had. We have evolved with technology, and with it so has our cues. You may not see it but it's unquestionably there.
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Very well stated,,,,,,,,,very well indeed.
 
HueblerHustler7 said:
If something aint broke dont fix it.
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^^^This^^^
Wood is cheap, looks nice, is everywhere and works great; we have been using it forever and we are all familiar with it. We brew beer, make wine, heat & cool our homes, can, refrigerate, freeze and heat our food, wash our cloths and transport ourselves from place to place in basically the same way for a long time; technological advancement has happened in the sport as much as it has needed to be, there is just no need to tech it up.
 
The cue hasn't 'evolved' in the ways you are stating simply because there's no need for it to. You don't need added power or performance in an 'arms race' with your opponent because you don't ever compete physically against them, like in tennis. Harder, faster, stronger doesn't get you anywhere in pool for the most part, it is a game of precision, where being a millimeter off means a miss. Making the equipment lighter has a practical limit due to the physics involved, and making them ultra strong is not really needed as the forces on a cue basically act only in one direction (unless you are a rail smacker).
 
There is a real need for a chalklees cue. Think about all the chalk on the table, the balls, the trasfers that result in missed shots and the very real need to continuously clean everything.

We need a a different type of cue tip.

I think there is a need for good screw on tips that could be used in many different ways.
 
matcase said:
Just as with mastery of a musical instrument, pool should be on the player. A beautiful cue is like a beautiful guitar, or piano, or violin etc. there is artistry in the construction, but the skill of the user is the essence of the game. Cues should remain cues and should not become smart cues.
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Very good analogy. I agree.
 
I think people should be a little more careful in equating materials vs. evolution in performance. Just because you have a better glue, does not mean the performance of the cue will benefit. (there are cues that are hide glued and 50 years old, dead straight to this day and play very well, and some new cues that warp within weeks) I mean, in some cuemakers eyes, the hit of a one piece cue is the end all to end all. If that was the case, why not make a piece cue and call it a day?

Players today use mostly production cues because of sponsorships, not performance. They could use a Balabushka, as easily as they can a Fury or Cuetech. Except George ain't paying their bills.

How many cuemakers today on the custom end can claim their cues are played with by world champions? The number is less than 10, maybe half that. So if your cues are so much better, where are the trophies?

I can tell you if you wanted to compare "custom" cues in terms of championships, Balabushka would reign supreme, as would Rambo. In the last 20-30 years, Meucci, Cuetech and Predator might be the front runners. So where is the performace gain we are talking about?

JV
 
Tramp Steamer said:
We here at Steamer Cue Sports Ltd., have been exploring a number of ways that would enhance the playability, safety, and portability of the pool cue.
For instance: We are developing a cue that is entirely filled with Helium. A player never needs to set it down. Just let it float there in space within easy reach.
Also under development is a cue with a compartment in the butt that would carry a players lunch, as well as a hot or cold beverage, and silverware.
Our most promising prospect is a cue that comes in it's own case. Simply press a hidden button on the side and the shaft shoots out the end, much like a switchblade knife. Press the button again and the shaft extends even further, eliminating the need for a crutch.
So there you have it. The future of the pool cue is alive and well here at Steamer Cue Sports. :smile:
Click to expand...

Tramp,

What price range are the MSRP's on these cues expected to be :cool:???

Maniac (may want the one that holds lunch :thumbup:)
 
How about a cue that worked like a cross bow. This combines virtual pool with reality.

Of course it would be a new game like using a mortar in golf!

But then pool evolved from something like croquet so it might be part of the natural evolution of games combining archery with table top croquet.
 
PGHteacher said:
^^^This^^^
Wood is cheap, looks nice, is everywhere and works great; we have been using it forever and we are all familiar with it.
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Even the wood has evolved, technically speaking. We are now set into an age of farmed wood. Virgin trees were cut and a new forest regrew, and somebody cleverly created a grooming system of the forest where trash trees are cleared out in order to enhance the better trees. Trees in managed forests are cut if they are too old, crooked, sick, diseased, a threat to good trees, etc. The good trees are monitored & harvested at it's peak so to get maximum yield of top grade lumber.

Machinery & technique has evolved to fell the trees with the least possible strain or tension stressed upon the log. From here logs are bucked precisely at the points where the log will produce the very best lumber. The log is then put to a mill that is computer programmed and laser guided to break it down into the highest yield of highest quality lumber. The lumber is immediately dried in state of the art kilns, whether it be vacuum or dehumidification, with a computer monitored & controlled environment. At the end of the cycle it is stress relieved to ensure stability.

This is technology applied to a very primitive material. Wood now is technically "better" than back when. As many arguments as you'll hear that old wood is better, there has yet to be any science to prove it. Regardless of my own personal beliefs, I cannot find any science to support it. Wood processing is technologically light years ahead of 20 years ago, which was light years ahead of 20 years before that.

Even the most basic material, wood, has evolved. Yes it's still wood, and genetically probably not any different than the past. But technology has created a way to give a higher degree of yield and consistency than ever before. On a scale level, wood now is superior to wood from the past. The lumber is cut not from just whatever trees are available, but from trees that have been groomed, selected, raised for the sole purpose of lumber. We domesticated wood, simply put. We aren't hunting deer anymore & making the best of it. We're raising cattle & using technology to produce the best and most meat. Cues by default have been advanced as a result.
 
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