I thought the consensus, from using side spin, was "squirt" is the cueBALL's initial sideways movement and "deflection" is how the pool CUE bends.
Jeff Livingston
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Texas Staff working deligently to prove Squirt has NO EFFECT on the Cue Ball!!!
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
I thought the consensus, from using side spin, was "squirt" is the cueBALL's initial sideways movement and "deflection" is how the pool CUE bends.
Jeff Livingston
I hope not
I think that distinction came originally from Bob Byrne.
I could be wrong.
Jeff Livingston
I may never find out for sure, it's really not pertinent.
I agree....That's why I didn't walk the ten feet to my library to look in Bob's books. When I play pool, I USE what I know but don't worry about conveying to others exactly what it is I'm doing.
But when discussing stuff on a forum, it sometimes helps to use exact definitions so others don't get off track. You're a teacher here, so you might want to know the definitions better than most, imho.
I love your threads. I always try to learn from those who can kick my azz.
Jeff, the other CJ, Livingston
Check out the squirt, swerve, throw confusion resource page. Here are some excerpts:
squirt (same as "cue ball deflection"): angular displacement of the cue ball path away from the cue stroking direction caused by the use of English. Squirt increases with the amount of English.
effective squirt: (same as "squerve"): the net effect of squirt and swerve (i.e., the cue ball deflection off the aiming line at object ball impact).
swerve: curve of the cue ball’s path due to cue elevation and English.
Here are two videos that explain and demonstrate all of this fairly well:
NV B.70 - Squirt, swerve, and throw, from VEPS II
NV B.86 - Cut-induced throw (CIT) and spin-induced throw (SIT), from VEPS IV
NV B.86 - Cut-induced throw (CIT) and spin-induced throw (SIT), from VEPS IV
Enjoy,
Dave
Check out the squirt, swerve, throw confusion resource page. Here are some excerpts:
squirt (same as "cue ball deflection"): angular displacement of the cue ball path away from the cue stroking direction caused by the use of English. Squirt increases with the amount of English.
effective squirt: (same as "squerve"): the net effect of squirt and swerve (i.e., the cue ball deflection off the aiming line at object ball impact).
swerve: curve of the cue ball’s path due to cue elevation and English.
Here are two videos that explain and demonstrate all of this fairly well:
NV B.70 - Squirt, swerve, and throw, from VEPS II
NV B.86 - Cut-induced throw (CIT) and spin-induced throw (SIT), from VEPS IV
Enjoy,
Dave
Always great presentation, and wealth of knowledge, i think every pool player should pay you a cut of their winnings. Thank you for everything you did to pool.
Check out the squirt, swerve, throw confusion resource page. Here are some excerpts:
squirt (same as "cue ball deflection"): angular displacement of the cue ball path away from the cue stroking direction caused by the use of English. Squirt increases with the amount of English.
effective squirt: (same as "squerve"): the net effect of squirt and swerve (i.e., the cue ball deflection off the aiming line at object ball impact).
swerve: curve of the cue ball’s path due to cue elevation and English.
Here are two videos that explain and demonstrate all of this fairly well:
NV B.70 - Squirt, swerve, and throw, from VEPS II
NV B.86 - Cut-induced throw (CIT) and spin-induced throw (SIT), from VEPS IV
Enjoy,
Dave
Thanks for taking the time for that. I know that squirt is cue ball deflection, but what is the cue shaft deflection called?
I like the term for the cue ball, "squirt" better than "deflection." I remember the reason as being "deflection" is better used to describe the cue shaft sideways movement after hitting side. I wonder, is that still the common term used for the shaft?
Jeff Livingston
Yes, but the Low Deflection (LD) shafts, actually deflect more. It can surely get confusing for all. The LD shafts deflect the cue ball less.
Paul Wooten had some interesting things to say about "squirt" and CJ Wiley as well. :grin: Click here to read what Paul Wooten said about CJ Wiley and SQUIRT!
Rule #7 of the Mind
Rule Number Seven:
When dealing with the subconscious mind and its functions, the greater the conscious effort, the less the subconscious response.
Rule Number Seven:
When dealing with the subconscious mind and its functions, the greater the conscious effort, the less the subconscious response.
:ignore:
To some, it is more pertinent to know the difference than it is to become a World Champion.:ignore: Should I have said that?
PS CJ, here is something that was pertintent to you in 1992 & myself in 1972...HAIR! We had the same hair style 20 yrs. apart. Who said it was a fad?
To some, it is more pertinent to know the difference than it is to become a World Champion.:ignore: Should I have said that?
PS CJ, here is something that was pertintent to you in 1992 & myself in 1972...HAIR! We had the same hair style 20 yrs. apart. Who said it was a fad?
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Good point. That's why that term, "deflection," had better be used appropriately, I suppose.
Jeff Livingston
"Everything else being equal, a modern low-deflection cue, or an older cue with a new low-deflection shaft, is going to win the vast majority of the time. Greatly improved accuracy will make it so.
Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/2155869"
I've yet to see a cue that did not require a human for use. I've never seen just a cue playing pool. The cue has always been in the hands of a person.
Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/2155869"
I've yet to see a cue that did not require a human for use. I've never seen just a cue playing pool. The cue has always been in the hands of a person.
I know that seems to make sense, but it's actually not true. The shaft's flexibility doesn't have much to do with CB squirt - some stiffer shafts can produce less squirt than some whippy ones. Mine, for instance, is a very-low-squirt but very stiff shaft (because of its conical taper).
pj
chgo
Mr. Wooten also had something interesting to say about John Schmidt:
So-ooooo...
Was I mistaken when I heard John say in the TAR podcast that low-deflection shafts ruined his game for a couple years, or is Mr. Wooten full of baloney?
Actually, Mark G. brought up the fact that John ran 400 with the OB shaft, but JS was quick to differentiate between the amount of squirt in high-speed spinners vs. low-speed shots. It is now (apparently) a well known fact that stroke speed had no effect on the amount of angular deflection experienced by the cue ball, and that only the amount of tip offset has any bearing on this.
Personally, I think the erroneous belief that stroke speed increased CB squirt messed with JS' head and made him miss the high-speed spin shots.
Your thoughts?
You're very welcome. Although, it took almost no time because it was already on my resource page.Thanks for taking the time for that.Check out the squirt, swerve, throw confusion resource page. Here are some excerpts:
squirt (same as "cue ball deflection"): angular displacement of the cue ball path away from the cue stroking direction caused by the use of English. Squirt increases with the amount of English.
effective squirt: (same as "squerve"): the net effect of squirt and swerve (i.e., the cue ball deflection off the aiming line at object ball impact).
swerve: curve of the cue ball’s path due to cue elevation and English.
Here are two videos that explain and demonstrate all of this fairly well:
I would call shaft deflection "shaft deflection." Sometimes the term "whip" is used to describe shaft deflection (e.g., with a "whip shot," where the shaft deflection away from the CB is critical to making the shot work. See NV B.52 for an example).
Me too. The term "deflection" is usually used for things like shaft flex. An LD (low deflection) shaft can actually exhibit large shaft deflection while creating small squirt (AKA "cue ball deflection"). Although, as PJ has pointed out, shaft deflection is more related to shaft stiffness. However, low-squirt cues are often whippy (and deflect easily) near the tip, where the endmass (and usually stiffness) is low. Stiffness near the tip end of the shaft actually contributes to a higher effective endmass and more squirt, per the explanation here:
Regards,
Dave
Most LD shaft are flexible. As a general rule, if they are flexible, they deflect more than if they are stiff. Your shaft is an exception, kind of narrow as I recall.
Paul Wooten ... I haven't seen that man in a while
Paul Wooten ... I haven't seen that man in a while, and he could hit a golf ball a mile...pretty advanced pool player too when he wanted to be.
Paul Wooten ... I haven't seen that man in a while, and he could hit a golf ball a mile...pretty advanced pool player too when he wanted to be.
You're right about knowing definitions to "so others don't get off track"...
You're right about knowing definitions "so others don't get off track".... the trouble is when you do know these definitions and start trying to "adjust" for them IS when you get off track. There's different angles you can hold the cue and different ways to apply english. I'm not hearing how to do this correctly and if I try to explain, it's going to be controversial.
You're right about knowing definitions "so others don't get off track".... the trouble is when you do know these definitions and start trying to "adjust" for them IS when you get off track. There's different angles you can hold the cue and different ways to apply english. I'm not hearing how to do this correctly and if I try to explain, it's going to be controversial.
Mr. Wiley,
I do not mean to start anything contoversial. Believe me I've only been here since June & there is not much that I have not seen 'discussed'.
I use back hand english, front hand english, a combo of both bhe & fhe, & 'paralell' english. I do not really know why I choose to use which one for a certain shot. I just 'feel' it & do it. I have seen a form where BHE is set up & then when the stroke is made, the tip is brought back toward center but I have not tried it. Are you suggesting another form? If you do not want to bring it up here because of controversy, I invite you to introduce me to it through a PM.
Regards.
Rick
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