'accelerating' stroke

swest said:
Anyway, it is difficult to shake that feeling that by accelerating through the shot somehow I am prolonging tip contact.
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The only problem I have with the idea of there not being a prolonged contact is the way I described how I stroke a shot. Where it's almost a slight push of the CB.

Ex. 1 Think of how you would open a door that needs to be pushed to open. If you stand at the entrance, and push forcefully with both hands while standing still, your hands wouldn't be in contact with the door very long.

Ex. 2 But if you were to push the door open and walk through in the same motion, your hands would be on the door for a slightly longer time.

To me, Ex. 2 is how I view proper acceleration/follow through.
 
BeiberLvr said:
The only problem I have with the idea of there not being a prolonged contact is the way I described how I stroke a shot. Where it's almost a slight push of the CB.

Ex. 1 Think of how you would open a door that needs to be pushed to open. If you stand at the entrance, and push forcefully with both hands while standing still, your hands wouldn't be in contact with the door very long.

Ex. 2 But if you were to push the door open and walk through in the same motion, your hands would be on the door for a slightly longer time.

To me, Ex. 2 is how I view proper acceleration/follow through.
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I don't see much potential downside to viewing your stroke this way. Smooth acceleration and good follow through are good things, and this perception may be the best way for you to achieve them. Other misperceptions may be detrimental to your game, but I think this one can be benign.

pj
chgo
 
What if instead of being concerned re: an acclerating/decelerating stroke, we were concerned about a smooth stroke? A loose clasp on the cue will tend to provide the best results...
 
Neil said:
Believe it or not, it actually is an accelerating stroke. It's actually the best stroke out there. It is easily repeatable, and you hit the cb right where you intend to. Very accurate. I have used it for an extended period of time with great results. You just pull back an inch or two, and then accelerate forward. It looks like a punch, but actually is not when done correctly. Least wise, it is not what is normally referred to as a "punch stroke".
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I have started doing that! I's amazing how hard you can hit the cue ball with an inch and a half stroke! Less to go wrong. I still miss though. :embarrassed2:
I found out yesterday why I think ? I'm developing a lazy left eye because the Lasik didn't get things right. I have to have both eyes redone!
I have to wait another 9 months before it can be fixed. It sucks.:(
At least I have something to blame it on besides me! lol
 
Neil said:
Believe it or not, it actually is an accelerating stroke.
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My stroke is shorter for softer shots (not this short), but on harder ones it seems like I'd have to jerk it to get enough speed without some more room to accelerate. Do you use the short stroke for shots of all speeds?

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Oops! Sorry if I misread you, Neil!


Yes, Dave's page is my auxiliary brain.


And a good example of how the simplest explanation is almost always the best bet. "Pool physics" gets a bad rap here as a difficult and complicating topic when it's really just common sense stuff that actually simplifies and demystifies the game.

pj
chgo
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Yes, you did misread me Pat.:)
 
Patrick Johnson said:
My stroke is shorter for softer shots (not this short), but on harder ones it seems like I'd have to jerk it to get enough speed without some more room to accelerate. Do you use the short stroke for shots of all speeds?

pj
chgo
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I've actually even used it for the break shot! The big "trick" to it, is to stay loose. If you tighten up, no speed and no accuracy, even at that close range. I will say, it does take some getting used to. And, it just doesn't seem as much "fun" a way to play. But, when needed, it is a great tool to have!

I say not as much fun because when done right, you bend over barely move your forearm or even only use your fingers, and then stand up. Results are great, but you feel like all you are doing is bending up and down. We tend to like to actually "do" something when we play, hence a lot of movement of some. It's a little more fun to actually move around than just bend over from time to time.
 
Here are a few shots using the speeds I normally use. Do all of these look like the CB is traveling 3 mph(52.8 inches per second) which is the low end of the speed range used to prove CIT happens on all shots or 1 meter per sec (39.3 inches per second).

What speed would you call those shots? Super slow, Ulra slow, medium, fast or what?

This is my point about using the terms slow, med and fast, they are not set standards, but totally subjective based on a person experience.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ducman954?feature=results_main

BTW, I changed a few things in my stroke since these were taken, so no need for the cheap shots about my playing.
 
duckie said:
Here are a few shots using the speeds I normally use. Do all of these look like the CB is traveling 3 mph(52.8 inches per second) which is the low end of the speed range used to prove CIT happens on all shots or 1 meter per sec (39.3 inches per second).

What speed would you call those shots? Super slow, Ulra slow, medium, fast or what?

This is my point about using the terms slow, med and fast, they are not set standards, but totally subjective based on a person experience.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ducman954?feature=results_main

BTW, I changed a few things in my stroke since these were taken, so no need for the cheap shots about my playing.
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You obviously have not bothered to read the threads where several people pointed out to you several times what the different terms of slow, medium, and fast mean. So why keep asking the same question over and over if you aren't going to bother to read peoples responses to your questions??
 
If you're taking an inch-and-a-half stroke, are you using a two-inch bridge? It's actually very difficult to hit such a stroke hard with the short bridge as the tip disappears into your bridge hand and stops lengthening its "arc". Try it and see.
 
Remember, the Secret to this Game is ALL In Your Hands.

Mikjary said:
Ummm...why does a stroke matter if we can only hit the cue ball for 1/1000th of a second? Twisting and pivoting and all other gyrations are futile in changing the hit on the cue ball. Why does a good stroke matter? Scientifically speaking, of course.

Best,
Mike
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Allow me, Mike, tell you what was shared with me about "The Stroke".... Keep your stoke SIMPLE....get down on the cue ball measure up close to the cue ball....then take the cue back and return YOUR HAND to EXACTLY the place it started from..Quickly, with acceleration......the stroke is easier than people understand...you are just drawing your hand BACK , away from the cue ball and returning it QUICKLY to where it started.... do this with acceleration and make no attempt to follow through, just let it happen.

your follow through should be NO LONGER than your back swing to be accurate.

Remember, the Secret to this Game is "ALL In Your Hands"....that's where you get the speed and touch to PLAY WELL 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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BeiberLvr said:
The only problem I have with the idea of there not being a prolonged contact is the way I described how I stroke a shot. Where it's almost a slight push of the CB.

Ex. 1 Think of how you would open a door that needs to be pushed to open. If you stand at the entrance, and push forcefully with both hands while standing still, your hands wouldn't be in contact with the door very long.

Ex. 2 But if you were to push the door open and walk through in the same motion, your hands would be on the door for a slightly longer time.

To me, Ex. 2 is how I view proper acceleration/follow through.
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My 'perception' is similiar to yours. Even if we are only talking about between 1 to 2/1000 of a second, I believe 'we' can discern a difference.

I believe the connection of the hand has something to do with it. A 'loose' connection to the cue in conjunction with a 'loose' wrist lessons the rigidity of the stroke. A soft tip increases contact time slightly over a hard tip due to more compression. I believe the same think may be said for the connection of the cue to the force moving it, namely the hand & wrist.

Just my $0.02 'perception'.
Regards,
Rick
 
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LAMas said:
What about Alan Hopkins stroke...punch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMJdV0kbUe8
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LAMas,

Obviusly, nothing 'wrong' with it. I use that type of 'stroke' often. There are times when playing pool when a long dileberate or accidental or subconscious follow through is not possible without committing a foul. I know you know I was just laying it out.

Regards,

Rick

PS Are you in Louisiana, if so where? (PM?)
 
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Athletes, Rick, usually like a firmer grip from my experience.

ENGLISH! said:
My 'perception' is similiar to yours. Even if we are only talking about between 1 to 2/1000 of a second, I believe 'we' can discern a difference.

I believe the connection of the hand has something to do with it. A 'loose' connection to the cue in conjunction with a 'loose' wrist lessons the rigidity of the stroke. A soft tip increases contact time slightly over a hard tip due to more compression. I believe the same think may be said for the connection of the cue to the force moving it, namely the hand & wrist.

Just my $0.02 'perception'.
Regards,
Rick
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Athletes, Rick, usually like a firmer grip from my experience....I do and Earl uses a "death grip"...his words, not mine.....it's like hitting a bunt in baseball, or a tennis ball, firm, to a certain point gives you feel and more "action" on the ball. I like consistent grip pressure to get the most feel in my hand...and that's where it really counts, however you achieve it...you MUST FEEL the Cue Ball in a sensitive part of you hand/fingers to get the most control. "Be the Ball" means you must CONNECT to the ball/cue/hand in the best way possible.
 
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Mikjary said:
Ummm...why does a stroke matter if we can only hit the cue ball for 1/1000th of a second? Twisting and pivoting and all other gyrations are futile in changing the hit on the cue ball. Why does a good stroke matter? Scientifically speaking, of course.

Best,
Mike
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"Scientifically speaking", a good stroke is accurate. That's what matters.

pj
chgo
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
Athletes, Rick, usually like a firmer grip from my experience....I do and Earl uses a "death grip"...his words, not mine.....it's like hitting a bunt in baseball, or a tennis ball, firm, to a certain point give you feel and more "action" on the ball.
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CJ,

It's just not for me. Different strokes for different folks. When I 'grip' tightly it activates something that causes the stroke to not be as true (for me). Same type thing for me in golf, tight grip & the ball goes right. When Greg Norman was 'choking' a few tournaments down the stretch & loosing the ball to the right, Jack Nicklaus's advice was two words, 'grip pressure'.

It does not really apply here, but in hitting a baseball one does not want a tight grip prior to the release of the bat till just before the hit. It's a sequence of activation, similiar to golf, it builds.

I know you've said you 'grip it' so as to maintain a consistancy & prevent a snatching. I am more tossing the cue straight into the ball. the contact slows the cue & requires only a bit of pressure to keep the cue from flying loose.

Best Regards,
RJ

PS I've put your 'twist' stroke into my tool box. Obviuosly I'll need to be selective with it for awhile, but it's in the box.
 
just food for thought

ENGLISH! said:
CJ,

It's just not for me. Different strokes for different folks. When I 'grip' tightly it activates something that causes the stroke to not be as true (for me). Same type thing for me in golf, tight grip & the ball goes right. When Greg Norman was 'choking' a few tournaments down the stretch & loosing the ball to the right, Jack Nicklaus's advice was two words, 'grip pressure'.

It does not really apply here, but in hitting a baseball one does not want a tight grip prior to the release of the bat till just before the hit. It's a sequence of activation, similiar to golf, it builds.

I know you've said you 'grip it' so as to maintain a consistancy & prevent a snatching. I am more tossing the cue straight into the ball. the contact slows the cue & requires only a bit of pressure to keep the cue from flying loose.

Best Regards,
RJ

PS I've put your 'twist' stroke into my tool box. Obviuosly I'll need to be selective with it for awhile, but it's in the box.
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Just make sure you control the TOP of the cue because you want to hit most of your shots "feeling like" you're using the top of your tip. Buddy Hall was big on that one....I can feel the "scientists" squirming :eek: If you ever have issues with your grip, just do what I do - grab a hammer and hammer 10 nails, then grab your cue and feel the same sensation in your hand....you need to feel a certain "centifical type" force delivered into the TIP of your cue, LIKE the tip of your hammer.....just food for thought:cool:
 
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