John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

[PoolSharkAllen]

The terms "yeasayers," "naysayers" and "haters" haven't been used in these threads in quite some time; why bring them up now? You know I like you Allen, but it's time for change.

I agree with John. If we can't all discuss aiming systems - and sometimes even disagree on them - without trying to start the war all over again, then the moderators will eventually yank our priveleges of discussing anything altogether. So why don't we just forget about all of the negative things that have been said in the past, and work on the positive things that can be said now and in the future?

Roger

Roger, These terms are still in use, as shown in the example below.

If you really want to make changes, then you need a more effective way of communicating it to people. Perhaps starting a new thread on this very topic would be one way to go about it?

Making light of this technique is an academic boondoggle.

The same comment applies to aiming system haters. :grin:

 

[CJ Wiley]

Paralysis by analysis is a common thing happens and the victims are totally unaware

I think CJ is describing a method to take the logical/analytical mind out of the routine, to allow your subconscious to take over --- freewheeling-getting into the zone, or whatever you want to call it.

If I am wrong in this assessment, please correct me CJ.

Yes, I was pretty specific about NOT using any aiming systems or even judging the results. The thing that keeps many people form progressing is their own minds. Paralysis by analysis is a common thing that happens and the victims are totally unaware. At some point to play really well you have to learn to "feel with your eyes" and stop trying to turn pool into a visual game. At no time in my career did I lose a match, miss a ball, or have a bad day because my eyes weren't sharp. But I did have matches, shots, and days where my touch and feel were better than others. I have several ways to get my touch "tuned up" fairly quickly and the way I described in my last post was one of those ways. I'm just sharing this if anyone wants to experiment with improving their "feel and touch for the game". Just follow ALL the instructions and you'll do fine. Remember, no judgements about making or not making balls, just "FEEL" the cue ball hit the object ball and watch the object ball go into the pocket. Just notice what part of the pocket you're hitting and calibrate and adjust if necessary.

 

[swest]

.
.
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Just notice what part of the pocket you're hitting and calibrate and adjust if necessary.

But, of course, that is exactly the analysis that is required, if you are to make progress. Then, after it's embedded in your own personal 'system', whatever that may be, you can turn that shot over to your subconscious because it requires no further analysis...

 

[CJ Wiley]

system is designed to aim with my feet first, body second and my eyes/cue third

But, of course, that is exactly the analysis that is required, if you are to make progress. Then, after it's embedded in your own personal 'system', whatever that may be, you can turn that shot over to your subconscious because it requires no further analysis...

That's correct, I've found no better way. No matter what kind of system I use I still have to calibrate it. Omaha John told me about his aiming system years ago. He said "It's simple, Kid, if I over cut a shot I hit it fuller next time and if I under cut a shot I hit it thinner next time, it's called "KENTUCKY WINDAGE".

This is the "system" I use to calibrate angles with my "Touch of Inside/3 Part Pocket System"...and again, I try to FEEL the angle I create and I've described my alignment system, designed to aim with my feet first, body second and my eyes/cue third.

 

[CJ Wiley]

it's SO easy to eat poorly and SO difficult to eat healthy. Same with excercise

Ok so we don't apply any aiming system to this approach.(I need to connect with something,just guessing at a shot dosnt help.)Do I just line up thick on all shots to practice this.
Also did you learn this before you put out your ultimate aiming system?
and how do you apply it with your system?And if you did why didnt you mention it?:grin:

Sorry for all the questions.


Thought I was on to this but maybe im going at this wrong.

Anthony

I answered your first questions with my other post, and no, I didn't try to explain the "Touch of Inside" perception in that video. It's easy to show someone if I make them do it for a couple of hours, and as you've seen, if people want to try to "just understand" it, they may as well not try.

One thing that's ironic about my own journey in this game is I MUST make myself do the things that are most effective. None of them come naturally, it's like diet, it's SO easy to eat poorly and SO difficult to eat healthy.

Same with excercise, work and social experiences, we must be willing to do uncomfortable things to get better, healthier, or wealthier. Such is Life...'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[JoeyA]

I don't think CJ answered your question directly, so here's what he said in his first post describing his technique:

"...if you play the shot off center to purposely throw the ball you can aim at the severe edge of the pocket and basically deflect it in to the center....if it doesn't deflect you will hit the part of the pocket you are aiming at, and if it deflects too much it will go into the other side of the pocket..."

In other words, the ideal outcome is to hit the center of the pocket. As I've said before, this is exactly the same (except in the way it's described) as aiming for center pocket in the first place, adding some side and adjusting your aim toward the side of the pocket to compensate for squirt. "Using" squirt and "compensating for" it are the same thing in reality.

pj
chgo

What happens if you aim at the center of the pocket and the cue ball deflects a lot, instead of just a little?

 

[Ratta]

What happens if you aim at the center of the pocket and the cue ball deflects a lot, instead of just a little?

Well Joey,

for sure you cannot say that PJ is wrong with his posting. He s just explaining it correct. There s nothing wrong about what he s saying there. Now explain me your *question* to him. Now I AM really curious what sense this question should have. Really

 

[Patrick Johnson]

What happens if you aim at the center of the pocket and the cue ball deflects a lot, instead of just a little?

Exactly the same thing that happens with CJ's technique. That's because they're exactly the same technique except for how they're described.

With CJ's technique you also aim at the center of the pocket - you tell yourself you're "aiming" at another part of the pocket, but there's really no difference. If I "aim at the center of the pocket" (as usual), but then adjust my aim toward another part of the pocket to compensate for squirt, then I'm "aiming at another part of the pocket", just like with CJ's technique.

pj
chgo

P.S. I like the emphasis that CJ's technique puts on exact tip/CB placement and exact part-of-the-pocket aiming. But you can do that without adding unnecessary squirt to the equation.

 

[CJ Wiley]

What happens if you aim at the center of the pocket and the cue ball deflects a lot, instead of just a little?

You would miss over and over and over and.........

 

[CJ Wiley]

Exactly the same thing that happens with CJ's technique. That's because they're exactly the same technique except for how they're described.

With CJ's technique you also aim at the center of the pocket - you tell yourself you're "aiming" at another part of the pocket, but there's really no difference. If I "aim at the center of the pocket" (as usual), but then adjust my aim toward another part of the pocket to compensate for squirt, then I'm "aiming at another part of the pocket", just like with CJ's technique.

pj
chgo

P.S. I like the emphasis that CJ's technique puts on exact tip/CB placement and exact part-of-the-pocket aiming. But you can do that without adding unnecessary squirt to the equation.

How would you know if you were wrong?

 

[West Point 1987]

12 hours in...

Okay, I've got 12 straight hours using only this technique. Now it's dialed in, I don't even think about it...as soon as I'm down, I'm lined up with just a touch of inside, not enough to really spin it (I tested it out with a stripe ball, whatever spin you put on it is lost/dead upon contact with the OB). Using just follow or draw, I'm pretty much able to move the cue ball wherever I want it (that's the part that surprises me the most...you'd think you need outside more than inside to move the ball, but just the draw or follow absolutely gets the job done, with the least amount of effort...seems to automatically go wherever you envision it and my control is dead on). I find with my LD shaft I'm aiming just inside the pocket, not dead at the point...most of the time it drills the center...you adjust how far it moves toward/past the center of the pocket through speed of the stroke.

It's not the end all of shooting, but it opened up a whole new dimension that's good for my game about 80-90% of the time...I'm even more sold on this technique than I was before.

 

[CJ Wiley]

"Touch" of Inside is the key that unlocks the door to the 3 Part Pocket System

Okay, I've got 12 straight hours using only this technique. Now it's dialed in, I don't even think about it...as soon as I'm down, I'm lined up with just a touch of inside, not enough to really spin it (I tested it out with a stripe ball, whatever spin you put on it is lost/dead upon contact with the OB). Using just follow or draw, I'm pretty much able to move the cue ball wherever I want it (that's the part that surprises me the most...you'd think you need outside more than inside to move the ball, but just the draw or follow absolutely gets the job done, with the least amount of effort...seems to automatically go wherever you envision it and my control is dead on). I find with my LD shaft I'm aiming just inside the pocket, not dead at the point...most of the time it drills the center...you adjust how far it moves toward/past the center of the pocket through speed of the stroke.

It's not the end all of shooting, but it opened up a whole new dimension that's good for my game about 80-90% of the time...I'm even more sold on this technique than I was before.

Congrats, you are the 8th one that I know is using it now. What these other players don't realize is once you start using it I can tell. It does open up a new dimension and that's what I'm trying to do.

This is a way of playing that has been kept hidden for many years. There's no way I would tell anyone these techniques when I was gambling for a living. It's hilarious now to hear so many people get uneasy and try to explain why it doesn't work and I can tell they've never tried it.

Keep up the good work, it will get better and better, and REMEMBER it will be "human nature" to try to slip back to your old way. RESIST it and make yourself use it on EVERY shot at least a couple hours a week so it really sets in. Your speed will jump up higher than you could have ever imagined.

The "Touch" of Inside is the key that unlocks the door to the 3 Part Pocket System. Enjoy the Game as it was intended. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[Patrick Johnson]

With CJ's technique you also aim at the center of the pocket - you tell yourself you're "aiming" at another part of the pocket, but there's really no difference. If I "aim at the center of the pocket" (as usual), but then adjust my aim toward another part of the pocket to compensate for squirt, then I'm "aiming at another part of the pocket", just like with CJ's technique.

pj
chgo

CJ:
How would you know if you were wrong?

I'd know I'm wrong if I heard a reasonable explanation of how aiming to one side of the pocket and adding side to squirt-cut the OB to center pocket produces a different stick/CB/OB/pocket alignment than aiming at center pocket with the same amount of side and adjusting aim normally for squirt.

pj
chgo

 

[Mikjary]

Okay, I've got 12 straight hours using only this technique. Now it's dialed in, I don't even think about it...as soon as I'm down, I'm lined up with just a touch of inside, not enough to really spin it (I tested it out with a stripe ball, whatever spin you put on it is lost/dead upon contact with the OB). Using just follow or draw, I'm pretty much able to move the cue ball wherever I want it (that's the part that surprises me the most...you'd think you need outside more than inside to move the ball, but just the draw or follow absolutely gets the job done, with the least amount of effort...seems to automatically go wherever you envision it and my control is dead on). I find with my LD shaft I'm aiming just inside the pocket, not dead at the point...most of the time it drills the center...you adjust how far it moves toward/past the center of the pocket through speed of the stroke.

It's not the end all of shooting, but it opened up a whole new dimension that's good for my game about 80-90% of the time...I'm even more sold on this technique than I was before.

What's going on when you use high with this method? Did you change your speed? This is not a kill stroke so it plays off the rails a little differently.

Best,
Mike

 

[CJ Wiley]

what's preventing you from understanding

I'd know I'm wrong if I heard a reasonable explanation of how aiming to one side of the pocket and adding side to squirt-cut the OB to center pocket produces a different stick/CB/OB/pocket alignment than aiming at center pocket with the same amount of side and adjusting aim normally for squirt.

pj
chgo

So what's preventing you from understanding this concept?

 

[Mikjary]

I'd know I'm wrong if I heard a reasonable explanation of how aiming to one side of the pocket and adding side to squirt-cut the OB to center pocket produces a different stick/CB/OB/pocket alignment than aiming at center pocket with the same amount of side and adjusting aim normally for squirt.

pj
chgo

Consistency. Using the same stroke every time and not having to adjust for squirt. :idea:

Best,
Mike

 

[Slide Rule]

Okay, I've got 12 straight hours using only this technique. Now it's dialed in, I don't even think about it...as soon as I'm down, I'm lined up with just a touch of inside, not enough to really spin it (I tested it out with a stripe ball, whatever spin you put on it is lost/dead upon contact with the OB). Using just follow or draw, I'm pretty much able to move the cue ball wherever I want it (that's the part that surprises me the most...you'd think you need outside more than inside to move the ball, but just the draw or follow absolutely gets the job done, with the least amount of effort...seems to automatically go wherever you envision it and my control is dead on). I find with my LD shaft I'm aiming just inside the pocket, not dead at the point...most of the time it drills the center...you adjust how far it moves toward/past the center of the pocket through speed of the stroke.

It's not the end all of shooting, but it opened up a whole new dimension that's good for my game about 80-90% of the time...I'm even more sold on this technique than I was before.

I have had a similar experience after about 10 hours. It is natural.

I can also hit shots to the side pocket from the end rail. I had thought that the limit for a side pocket shot was a line defined by 1.4 diamonds on the end rail to the side pocket. Using slight inside shows it is more like 1.2 or 1.3. It does not seem possible, but they drop nicely. My eye is starting to see that they will fall.

Long table length shots also go nicely. This technique is competitive to my normal mode.

The nice thing about hitting near center is that all the natural shape comes into play.

I am not using this technique exclusively as each shot technique has its advantages. Hitting the OB more fully limits CB movement. If you need more side go inside further or line up and outside english shot.

This technique is part of my game. I will have sessions of shooting exclusively this way to determine more limits on shot making and position control.

 

[West Point 1987]

What's going on when you use high with this method? Did you change your speed? This is not a kill stroke so it plays off the rails a little differently.

Best,
Mike

Hard to say...depends on the angle and what I'm trying to do. There seems to be a "self-correcting" aspect to how the rails come into it...which is to say that firm strokes tend to die, softer ones don't. The angle (running versus flat versus kill angle) plays into it, the speed plays into it, etc. I don't know exactly how it's happening, but I'll say this...I can't stop using this now, no matter how hard I try. Sure, I'll shoot soft spin shots, masse shots, and occasional running english shots with outside when I absolutely need it; but using this as a default is intriguing in that I haven't scratched once in 12 hours letting my stroke out. The shots seem to trickle into position perfectly, usually drawn toward the center of the table no matter what I'm doing. Pretty cool, actually.

This is WAY easier to control than letting your stroke out and running around with outside/running English. All I can say is really put some hours into this, and instead of over thinking what you're doing with the cue ball, just visualize where you want to end up after hitting the shot...line up with a touch of inside, pull the trigger. I think you'll be surprised how well this really does work.

 

[CJ Wiley]

your new perception will open up and your cue ball will be a weapon

I have had a similar experience after about 10 hours. It is natural.

I can also hit shots to the side pocket from the end rail. I had thought that the limit for a side pocket shot was a line defined by 1.4 diamonds on the end rail to the side pocket. Using slight inside shows it is more like 1.2 or 1.3. It does not seem possible, but they drop nicely. My eye is starting to see that they will fall.

Long table length shots also go nicely. This technique is competitive to my normal mode.

The nice thing about hitting near center is that all the natural shape comes into play.

I am not using this technique exclusively as each shot technique has its advantages. Hitting the OB more fully limits CB movement. If you need more side go inside further or line up and outside english shot.

This technique is part of my game. I will have sessions of shooting exclusively this way to determine more limits on shot making and position control.

I love to see players when the light goes on and they start to discover a whole new arsenal of shots. Playing the conventional way KEEPS you from ever undertanding what can be done when you're on "the inside".

As soon as possible I would suggest playing for 2-3 straight hours using ONLY the "Touch" of Inside. You will be able to play shape on any ball that you could with "other" english.

The only exception is when you have to change the angle coming off the rail, but I would still try NOT TO. Develop that one shot and your new perception will open up and your cue ball will be a weapon.

 

[Mikjary]

I tried it on a bar table this weekend and killed whitey more than I needed to do. It was a good feeling to be able hold the rock in traffic. Makes stop outs in tight spaces easier with small cue ball moves.

I used to try and figure out why Dave Yeager could run out rack after rack on the big table and never do more than float the cue ball into position zones. I got tired of racking 6 packs and trying to figure out what he did. After using this technique, my memories came back about how his run outs looked. I'm finally getting the same pos he did.

He also did something else to hide this technique, I realized. That's why I never picked up on it. Neither could anybody else. We were scratching our heads and guessing. Now, I know. :winknudge:

Best,
Mike