Attitudes towards practice

Hi Fran:

Definitely. I'm not an instructor (in the certified sense), but I do often get asked for lessons.

One of my students -- we'll call him Doug -- also later became one of Scott Lee's students. Doug is an older gentleman (l-o-n-g retired school teacher) and is a "fixated" type of player -- meaning, he has his fixed ideas on how pool should be played, what to him means excellence, and even what constitutes "practice and drilling." He (at the time, when he was asking me for lessons) was an APA "4" in 8-ball.

Doug likes to specialize at the "singles boards" in the APA -- meaning, he's not into the team format, but rather goes his own to the regional singles boards (held at a regional APA stronghold in East Windsor, CT). In weeks prior to those events, he would say that he sequesters himself in his home, and in his words, "drills and drills and drills 'til his fingers bleed." He would spend entire weekends doing this, and when I'd see him on Tuesday league nights (back then -- a couple of years ago) -- I'd see no difference in his playing abilities. He'd miss the same type of shots he always had, blunder the same type of safeties he always had, and just in general "be the same old Doug." I even pointed that out to him -- in a respectful but tough love way -- and he admitted that he was lost, and didn't know what to do to break through to the next level of play. He asked me for lessons.

With my hectic work schedule, I don't have enough hours in the day to give formal regimented lessons, so when Doug asked me for lessons, I gave him tips on fundamentals (I saw many weaknesses in his form -- classic APA skill-level 4 stuff). However, I knew right away that I was only scratching the iceberg with Doug, and he needed more than I could give him, time-commitment and breadth-of-structured-content wise.

So I sent Doug to Scott. Fast forward, and needless to say, the lesson (a day commitment) went extremely well. Doug came back with his head spinning, and his form definitely looked different -- it looked a lot better. Video playback and analysis does wonders for resetting your view of what you think you're doing, vs. what you're actually doing. That same year, Doug went really deep in the 4/5 bracket Nationals in Vegas (he came in 9th and 5th in consecutive years, when he wouldn't even cash prior).

He openly admits the time and funds he spent on formal lessons was the best money he ever spent on pool. Yet, he knows he needs more, and when Scott's in the area for potential follow-up lessons, Doug will find an excuse out of it. He has the same old practice regimen, which is no regimen at all. Instead of practicing his Mother Drills, he just throws balls up on the table and proceeds to pocket them. No practicing his break (his break is weak by even 4/5 standards), no practicing banks, no practice in spin/follow/draw, no position-play practice, nothing. Just randomly throw balls up on the table and try to pocket them.

And each time when he complains that, although the lessons were the best thing he ever did, when I mention that Scott might be in the area or close, or that he could follow-on with lessons from Tony Robles, et al., Doug would reply with excuses that he can't, because he would be "embarrassed" that he didn't practice his Mother Drills, and that Scott would see this right away.

Instead, he tries to tap me for "freebie" quickie tips, in much the same as most pool players (that've never experienced a regimented way of learning how to play pool) do. You know, the "magic pill" approach that sadly, most pool players at his (and even lower/upper) levels do. And I'll quickly tell him -- when he asks "how to do so-and-so" -- that it's covered in his Mother Drills.

He's got himself in a never-ending spiral, like a dog chasing its tail.

It's really frustrating, too, because he has the wherewithal to become better, yet chooses to not change his ways.

-Sean

This is an excellent example of how the personality factor affects a player's ability to improve.

We are creatures of habit. Some of the habits or patterns that we act out go as far back as our childhood, which make those habits especially difficult to change.

When people talk about talent or natural ability, I think that at least half of that is in the personality of the player. I also believe that we aren't stuck with our ingrained habits, but we have to be willing to work hard to change them.

The person in your example is obviously stuck in a deeply ingrained habit. When a particular trigger kicks in, (whatever it may be) he falls back on his unconscious pattern. Identifying the trigger is key, and then teaching oneself to act in a different way when the trigger kicks in is the solution. Difficult, but doable.

Most people aren't even aware of what what may be causing their actions, unfortunately, so they will just continue to unconsciously react to those triggers for the rest of their lives.
 
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When one is in the steepest part of the learning curve, practice pays off immediately. But when one gets better and the curve starts to flatten out at the top, it takes more practice time to move up. That can frustrate a player. Maybe that's the problem for some?

I personally love practice. I suck when practicing and miss many shots, but when I take it to the competitive match, I play much better after having practiced that week. I talked to a guy at the pool hall this week who has the opposite results: he practices very well but can't take that to a competitive match, so he's slowly hating practice as he thinks it's not really helping his game.

How does one practice competing?

Jeff Livingston
 
Good questions, Jeff:

1. Plateaus are a part of any athletic endeavor. The work and time have to go in without pressuring one's self to do better every single time. I kind of like an old hustler's routine that was handed down to me. He would be sure to play seven days a week and at least for an hour, before taking a week off to refresh. Interesting as memory experts like Tony Buzan stress that a break after studying for a while before studying again in a long session allows the subconscious to digest the material...

2. The guy you know at the hall should practice while friends have fun trying to shark and distract him. If he can keep his concentration then, he'll harden up right quick for competition. On the other hand, a lot of the best players (in all sports) absolutely HATE their opponents during competition and burn with that fire. There have been articles in different sports about the phenomenon and I remember a Golf Digest suggesting that all the born again Christian pros saw a decline in tournament performance after conversion--they relented on hating the other competitors besides living for life goals above W's on tournament cards...
 
Good questions, Jeff:

1. Plateaus are a part of any athletic endeavor. The work and time have to go in without pressuring one's self to do better every single time. I kind of like an old hustler's routine that was handed down to me. He would be sure to play seven days a week and at least for an hour, before taking a week off to refresh. Interesting as memory experts like Tony Buzan stress that a break after studying for a while before studying again in a long session allows the subconscious to digest the material...

2. The guy you know at the hall should practice while friends have fun trying to shark and distract him. If he can keep his concentration then, he'll harden up right quick for competition. On the other hand, a lot of the best players (in all sports) absolutely HATE their opponents during competition and burn with that fire. There have been articles in different sports about the phenomenon and I remember a Golf Digest suggesting that all the born again Christian pros saw a decline in tournament performance after conversion--they relented on hating the other competitors besides living for life goals above W's on tournament cards...

My strong opinion is, that in billiards kind of these emotions (hate) tend to call up negative thoughts-and keeping you away from the necessary and important stuff you need in competition.

just my opinion from my expirience.
 
When one is in the steepest part of the learning curve, practice pays off immediately. But when one gets better and the curve starts to flatten out at the top, it takes more practice time to move up. That can frustrate a player. Maybe that's the problem for some?

I personally love practice. I suck when practicing and miss many shots, but when I take it to the competitive match, I play much better after having practiced that week. I talked to a guy at the pool hall this week who has the opposite results: he practices very well but can't take that to a competitive match, so he's slowly hating practice as he thinks it's not really helping his game.

How does one practice competing?

Jeff Livingston

Jeff,

To me pool is very similiar to golf, chess, horse shoes, & other 'non- combative', ball moving offense/defense type of sports. By that I mean, one is not really competing against the opponent. One is competing with one's self to 'handle' the situation at hand. The true competition is from with in.

The emotion of love/hate should not enter into it at all. I love my mother, my father, my wife, my children, & my best friend but I will still kick their butts on the pool table.

A competetive spirit either exist with in one's self or it does not. Everyone 'wants' to win. Some just want it to happen to them. While others will do what ever they can to make it happen for themselves &/or their team mates. In sports, it's called HEART.

As to how to practice competeing, I do it by competing with myself. I win...or I lose. Or do I win & lose? By competing with myself, I learn the difference between winning & losing. I know when someone loses to me on the table & I know when I win...or when I lose...or when someone kicks my butt & they win.

Playing games against one's self, to me is much better 'practice' than doing drills, etc.

That's just my nickel's worth. Hope it helps somehow.
 
Jeff,

To me pool is very similiar to golf, chess, horse shoes, & other 'non- combative', ball moving offense/defense type of sports. By that I mean, one is not really competing against the opponent. One is competing with one's self to 'handle' the situation at hand. The true competition is from with in.

The emotion of love/hate should not enter into it at all. I love my mother, my father, my wife, my children, & my best friend but I will still kick their butts on the pool table.

A competetive spirit either exist with in one's self or it does not. Everyone 'wants' to win. Some just want it to happen to them. While others will do what ever they can to make it happen for themselves &/or their team mates. In sports, it's called HEART.

As to how to practice competeing, I do it by competing with myself. I win...or I lose. Or do I win & lose? By competing with myself, I learn the difference between winning & losing. I know when someone loses to me on the table & I know when I win...or when I lose...or when someone kicks my butt & they win.

Playing games against one's self, to me is much better 'practice' than doing drills, etc.

That's just my nickel's worth. Hope it helps somehow.

One of the techniqes I use, and have posted here on az, is when I play myself and I miss, I do NOT start playing the "other guy's" balls. Instead, after a miss, I walk over to where my drink is and pretend that my opponent is going to run out with me watching, just as happens in a real situation.

I stand there "looking" at him running out and feel the pain as he does. I sulk and think through why I missed my shot, what I should have done, what I will do next time, just as I tend to do when competing for real. I stand there for 4 or 5 minutes while he runs out on me...everytime.

This is practicing a miss and practicing sitting in the chair. I think this needs to be practiced as it happens many times during competition. Handling the chair is an integral part of a match.

fwiw,

Jeff Livingston
 
One of the techniqes I use, and have posted here on az, is when I play myself and I miss, I do NOT start playing the "other guy's" balls. Instead, after a miss, I walk over to where my drink is and pretend that my opponent is going to run out with me watching, just as happens in a real situation.

I stand there "looking" at him running out and feel the pain as he does. I sulk and think through why I missed my shot, what I should have done, what I will do next time, just as I tend to do when competing for real. I stand there for 4 or 5 minutes while he runs out on me...everytime.

This is practicing a miss and practicing sitting in the chair. I think this needs to be practiced as it happens many times during competition. Handling the chair is an integral part of a match.

fwiw,

Jeff Livingston

Jeff,

I've done the break part, sip a drink, but I've never done it for that long & with those thoughts. That's a good idea & a good point. You understand, you got it. Now... can we give it to those that do not?

Best Wishes,
 
The emotion of love/hate should not enter into it at all. I love my mother, my father, my wife, my children, & my best friend but I will still kick their butts on the pool table.

Hate shouldn't be there but it can be parts of the equation, especially at the money games. There are players who love to rip the eyeballs out of another's head.

The chess giant Morphy said something about victory not being checkmate but the moment in the game where he crushed his opponent's spirit. Nice.

Heart is being competitive but "competitive" comes from "competing" against someone or something. We can do a thread on hating/not hating one's self at the tables!
 
One of the techniqes I use, and have posted here on az, is when I play myself and I miss, I do NOT start playing the "other guy's" balls. Instead, after a miss, I walk over to where my drink is and pretend that my opponent is going to run out with me watching, just as happens in a real situation.

I stand there "looking" at him running out and feel the pain as he does. I sulk and think through why I missed my shot, what I should have done, what I will do next time, just as I tend to do when competing for real. I stand there for 4 or 5 minutes while he runs out on me...everytime.

This is practicing a miss and practicing sitting in the chair. I think this needs to be practiced as it happens many times during competition. Handling the chair is an integral part of a match.

fwiw,

Jeff Livingston

Bloody 'ell Jeffrey - you're even more crazy on a pooltable than you are in NPR!

:smile:
 
PGHteacher...Well, you can disagree if you like, but softshot is correct. If you know what to practice, why you're practicing, how to practice it correctly (so that you can measure your results), then 2 hours (or less) per day will yield significant results for many players. It's far more about the "how" and "why" than how much.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
That has been my experience. When I had the time, I practiced an hour every day. It was okay practice (I was following drills from the major pool books), but it definitely could have been more fine-tuned to my needs. Still, I made progress.

and I say just about everybody can restructure their lives to get 2hours a day 5 times a week..if they really want to..
If you really wanted to practice that much. you could ignore your family, downgrade your job, and dump any other commitments. For some people, that's what "restructuring" would entail. I get in five days a week when I can, but it's usually more like two-three days a week. I'd probably get in five days if I had a table at home, but that won't be happening anytime soon.
 
That has been my experience. When I had the time, I practiced an hour every day. It was okay practice (I was following drills from the major pool books), but it definitely could have been more fine-tuned to my needs. Still, I made progress.


If you really wanted to practice that much. you could ignore your family, downgrade your job, and dump any other commitments. For some people, that's what "restructuring" would entail. I get in five days a week when I can, but it's usually more like two-three days a week. I'd probably get in five days if I had a table at home, but that won't be happening anytime soon.

Most people watch more than 2 hours of television daily...without missing work..and without neglecting their children.. so its not nearly an insurmountable sacrifice.. most folks simply don't want to do it
 
Most people watch more than 2 hours of television daily...without missing work..and without neglecting their children.. so its not nearly an insurmountable sacrifice.. most folks simply don't want to do it

softshot:

Those "dispensable" 2 hours of TV time, you speak of? Those might actually *be* the family time for some of us. For example, my lady and I will snuggle up to catch up on PVR-recorded episodes of our favorite BBC murder mysteries (e.g. "Wire in the Blood"). With both of us away from each other during the normal work day (extended work day for both of us, due to demands of our jobs), and then sharing in domestic responsibilities when we get home (e.g. cooking dinner, cleaning), this "together time" is crucial, and NOT dispensable.

In fact, the only time I get to post here on AZB most times, is on breaks at work, and then I have to detach and get back on track with what I was doing.

Making bucket statements like "everyone should be able to find 2 hours a day to practice regardless; saying there's an inability to do so is just finding an excuse" is a very dismissive and -- no offense -- ignorant statement. Situations vary from person to person, and in these financially-strained times, some of us are stretched pretty thin.

-Sean
 
softshot:

Those "dispensable" 2 hours of TV time, you speak of? Those might actually *be* the family time for some of us. For example, my lady and I will snuggle up to catch up on PVR-recorded episodes of our favorite BBC murder mysteries (e.g. "Wire in the Blood"). With both of us away from each other during the normal work day (extended work day for both of us, due to demands of our jobs), and then sharing in domestic responsibilities when we get home (e.g. cooking dinner, cleaning), this "together time" is crucial, and NOT dispensable.

In fact, the only time I get to post here on AZB most times, is on breaks at work, and then I have to detach and get back on track with what I was doing.

Making bucket statements like "everyone should be able to find 2 hours a day to practice regardless; saying there's an inability to do so is just finding an excuse" is a very dismissive and -- no offense -- ignorant statement. Situations vary from person to person, and in these financially-strained times, some of us are stretched pretty thin.

-Sean

not everyone is willing to become a great player... but those that are willing can find a way.... EVERYBODY makes time for what is important to them.. pool is important to me so I make time for it.. if you are not willing to trade American Idol for a big time stroke.. that is your choice

but to attempt to force apply your blanket excuses to people you don't know is equally dismissive and ignorant.

note in my previous post I did not say "EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD"... I said most people.

like granddad always said "Where there's a will there's a way"

"every single pool player gets exactly as good as they are willing to get"
 
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I know a guy who spends at least 2 hours a day in his garage tweaking his latest car project...

no one is condemning him for sacrificing his job and family

I know someone else who spends several hours a night in the winter grooming snowmobile trails for his local snowmobile club.

no one is condemning him for sacrificing his job and family

I know another guy loves to ride his Harley he spends hundreds of hours a year on his bike.

no one is condemning him for sacrificing his job and family.

I know a guy who spends hours every night in his basement building model trains..

no one is condemning him for sacrificing his job and family.

you make time for what is important to you pool is no different...
 
I know a guy who spends at least 2 hours a day in his garage tweaking his latest car project...

no one is condemning him for sacrificing his job and family

I know someone else who spends several hours a night in the winter grooming snowmobile trails for his local snowmobile club.

no one is condemning him for sacrificing his job and family

I know another guy loves to ride his Harley he spends hundreds of hours a year on his bike.

no one is condemning him for sacrificing his job and family.

I know a guy who spends hours every night in his basement building model trains..

no one is condemning him for sacrificing his job and family.

you make time for what is important to you pool is no different...

You have a vast array of exciting friends. Know any trainspotters? :wink:
 
Most people watch more than 2 hours of television daily...without missing work..and without neglecting their children.. so its not nearly an insurmountable sacrifice.. most folks simply don't want to do it

Let's see how this works...

Setting scene, I get home from another 9 hour day, maybe in time for supper. The wife and kid are actually home, too. So instead of spending some time at home, whether its American Idol, or anything, I should just say "nice to see you guys, I'm off to the pool room." Here's a hint for you, doing nothing together is still "together".

Full disclosure....I already do that 2 nights a week, for league. So I should just be able to make that work every night, right? If I REALLY wanted to, right?

Methinks you have no family. And no perspective. Yes, one COULD make time every night for pool or anything else, but to insinuate that "most" folks could, "if they really wanted to", is cold and callous.

And yes, I would like to play every night, and some times I get pretty close to that, if the family is otherwise occupied. But apparently I don't really "want" it enough...
 
Let's see how this works...

Setting scene, I get home from another 9 hour day, maybe in time for supper. The wife and kid are actually home, too. So instead of spending some time at home, whether its American Idol, or anything, I should just say "nice to see you guys, I'm off to the pool room." Here's a hint for you, doing nothing together is still "together".

Full disclosure....I already do that 2 nights a week, for league. So I should just be able to make that work every night, right? If I REALLY wanted to, right?

Methinks you have no family. And no perspective. Yes, one COULD make time every night for pool or anything else, but to insinuate that "most" folks could, "if they really wanted to", is cold and callous.

And yes, I would like to play every night, and some times I get pretty close to that, if the family is otherwise occupied. But apparently I don't really "want" it enough...

Let me ask you this: where are you going to get better, playing on a league where you spend most of your time there watching, or taking that same amount of time and spending it on the practice table?
 
Let's see how this works...

Setting scene, I get home from another 9 hour day, maybe in time for supper. The wife and kid are actually home, too. So instead of spending some time at home, whether its American Idol, or anything, I should just say "nice to see you guys, I'm off to the pool room." Here's a hint for you, doing nothing together is still "together".

Full disclosure....I already do that 2 nights a week, for league. So I should just be able to make that work every night, right? If I REALLY wanted to, right?

Methinks you have no family. And no perspective. Yes, one COULD make time every night for pool or anything else, but to insinuate that "most" folks could, "if they really wanted to", is cold and callous.

And yes, I would like to play every night, and some times I get pretty close to that, if the family is otherwise occupied. But apparently I don't really "want" it enough...

that makes you a world class candidate for Predator shafts.... Kamui chalk .. and begging for weight...

I can't make you WANT to be a great player... I can't make you WORK to be a great player ..

NO ONE can instill desire.. one can only guide it when they find it...

do you want to know how to get better???? work on your stroke everyday

that is THE answer..... the ONLY answer...

I have asked every great player I have ever met.... how did you get so good???

they ALL gave the EXACT SAME ANSWER....

getting good at pool isn't a mystery.. it's never been a mystery.. and it's not beyond the reach of anyone....it's primary cost is sweat and time... just like EVERYTHING ELSE...
 
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Let me ask you this: where are you going to get better, playing on a league where you spend most of your time there watching, or taking that same amount of time and spending it on the practice table?

...................

(forget it. not worth the aggravation, nor dragging the thread the wrong way)
 
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