Attitudes towards practice

PGHteacher

John Fischer
Silver Member
To be honest who enjoys practice?

I do! And that is because I have practiced enough so that I realize that the improvement in my game is a direct result of my practice sessions. If you just drill, do that drill, that drill & that drill practice can get boring and a drudgery real fast.

If you "water down" your drills so that you can't do them perfectly, but almost then when you are about to "beat that drill" next week or month, it will become exciting to you (well it will for some/most), and if you jussssttt about get it you will want to stay at the table or have the enthusiasm to get back there tomorrow.

In the beginning make practice FUN!!! If you don't you will make this analogy in your mind practice=boring, aggravating and is just another chore; playing=fun. Once you set this up in your mind you are doomed to being right in the middle of the average player, PM me if you want to knock around a few ideas that might make your practice sessions not something that "oh well I HAVE to do today"

Yes I have excuses... 3 kids, full time job, husband a home to care of plus family and friends.

We all have a life to live, but you have a pool table at home (I think), that fact offsets most of that; as pool players we have to look at the glass as 1/2 full not as 1/2 empty.

So ok I'd say on some days I only practice for 10 balls. That's it.

Hitting 10 balls around or in is not practice, PM me if you want more on this.

At the end of the Week maybe I have put in 14 - 20 hours. Sounds like a lot but it's not all practice just play play for the most part.

I play for a lot more than 20 hours a week closer to 30; 8-10 hours of that is practice and practice is fun & exciting, you just have to know how to make it so.

At best I may have 3 hours if it be Real Practice. So I could do better.

That's not enough, here is a suggestion. when you play with your husband agree to drill until you both agree that you are "warm", if he is before you are tell him to take a seat until you are, if you are warm before he is take a seat until he is, then play your games
 

PGHteacher

John Fischer
Silver Member
Thank you for proving my point..

You're welcome, we are in agreement for the most part


you listed sacrifices most are not willing to make..

I also agree there are some people that do not realize that sacrifices MUST be made to get any good at all. I was more talking about those people where the cost of living is high, they don't have access to a pool table and/or if they do it is expensive. What if you are the sole breadwinner, you have a wife/girlfriend, kids, 2 jobs and are going to school; well if you like to play pool you are not going to become really good. Those people should not be made to feel as though they can't enjoy the game and get better at it.


but reality says you don't need "all day everyday " to make progress you only need 2hours or so per day.. and I say just about everybody can restructure their lives to get 2hours a day 5 times a week..if they really want to..

That is where I strongly disagree, there are lots of people that have severely limited time and resources to devote to it, I have had people drop my course that were really enjoying it and getting a lot out of it but just really didn't have the time & money.

most people are simply not willing to make that happen... those folks will never become good players. so sell them a predator and some kamui chalk and wish them luck...

Most people don't want to give up pool playtime for pool practice time :confused::eek::yikes::shocked2::thud: and they still think they are going to become really good :rotflmao1: even though they have not improved significantly for a long time; sometimes years, football, basketball, cards, spending time with their significant other, friends & family. And yes those people are not going to get any good at all. I think this needs to be addressed right off the bat, years ago when I 1st started teaching I didn't and I let people know right away what's involved (unless I can see they know already).

I do now and it has saved me much anguish. I tell them "somehow, somewhere and in someway you will have to sacrifice a lot to get good; pool just works that way as does life, if your not willing to do that you can save yourself time & money and save me aggravation; you can stop (my course) now."
 
Last edited:

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Some love practice and some don't so I try to make it engaging for students. They like the circle pace drill. I like what some teachers have created with drills emphasizing specific position plays for 8- and 9-Ball... students warm to that sort of thing.
 

ronscuba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like to practice. Both playing a game or drills. My league team mates usually only want to play a game. Adding in some drills would help focus on weak points, but playing a game is better than nothing.

With my team, making a personality adjustment is more difficult than continuously coming up with ways to make practice interesting. I'm not a psychologist, so maybe I am going about it the wrong way.

I don't remember where I read it, but a way we make practicing defense interesting is to play 9 ball with 1 player shooting 100% offense and the other player shooting 100% defense. The defensive player can win by 3 fouling the opponent or sinking the 9 ball. The players alternate shooting offense/defense each game. You can play this by yourself or with multiple players on teams alternating shots.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
PGHteacher...Well, you can disagree if you like, but softshot is correct. If you know what to practice, why you're practicing, how to practice it correctly (so that you can measure your results), then 2 hours (or less) per day will yield significant results for many players. It's far more about the "how" and "why" than how much.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

but reality says you don't need "all day everyday " to make progress you only need 2hours or so per day.. and I say just about everybody can restructure their lives to get 2hours a day 5 times a week..if they really want to..
That is where I strongly disagree, there are lots of people that have severely limited time and resources to devote to it, I have had people drop my course that were really enjoying it and getting a lot out of it but just really didn't have the time & money.
 
Last edited:

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
PGHteacher...Well, you can disagree if you like, but softshot is correct. If you know what to practice, why you're practicing, how to practice it correctly (so that you can measure your results), then 2 hours (or less) per day will yield significant results for many players. It's far more about the "how" and "why" than how much.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

but reality says you don't need "all day everyday " to make progress you only need 2hours or so per day.. and I say just about everybody can restructure their lives to get 2hours a day 5 times a week..if they really want to..


Somewhere out there someone is practicing. HARDER and LONGER than you are. When they meet you in competition they WILL beat you....


Larry Legend's take on it

http://marklamberti.com/2009/09/somewhere-out-there/


Sorry Scott I'll have to side with Larry Legend over you or Softshot any day........
 

softshot

Simplify
Silver Member

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is not to say that everyone should aspire to be a great player, but something I noticed about great players on their way to being great: Each time they hit the practice table, it's with a question that they need answered. They're trying to figure something out, and they will keep at it until they are satisfied with an answer. It may go on for hours days or weeks, but they will keep at it. Any practice session may be 3, 6 or even 9 hours, depending on how engrossed they are in what they're doing. Generally, they have little sense of how much time has passed and they're usually surprised when they find out how long they were at the table.
 

softshot

Simplify
Silver Member
This is not to say that everyone should aspire to be a great player, but something I noticed about great players on their way to being great: Each time they hit the practice table, it's with a question that they need answered. They're trying to figure something out, and they will keep at it until they are satisfied with an answer. It may go on for hours days or weeks, but they will keep at it. Any practice session may be 3, 6 or even 9 hours, depending on how engrossed they are in what they're doing. Generally, they have little sense of how much time has passed and they're usually surprised when they find out how long they were at the table.

there are a lot of ways to become great at something.. pool is similar in this regard to music..

you have the "rock and roll approach" the person who through sheer love becomes exceptionally good at a small piece of the whole.. think 80's pop metal lead guitar...

on the other hand you have a classically trained pianist who has mastered every scale, in every key, over a wide range of tempos and they learned it through regimented practice...even if they didn't feel like it...

one of them can't even read music and only play's "crazy train" once in a while at parties

the other can play any piece of music ever written... on demand

I know how I want to train...
 
Last edited:

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
I always said to myself that on any day I was not practicing, someone else was getting better than me.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
This is not to say that everyone should aspire to be a great player, but something I noticed about great players on their way to being great: Each time they hit the practice table, it's with a question that they need answered. They're trying to figure something out, and they will keep at it until they are satisfied with an answer. It may go on for hours days or weeks, but they will keep at it. Any practice session may be 3, 6 or even 9 hours, depending on how engrossed they are in what they're doing. Generally, they have little sense of how much time has passed and they're usually surprised when they find out how long they were at the table.


Hi Fran,

In other words, it's not necessarily the quantity of practice time but instead it's the quality of the practice time. Everyone is different. Some need 30 reps & some need 3,000 reps.

It should also be relative to the goal in mind. What does one want relative to the game? Once that has been determined, the question becomes, does one want to succeed in attaining that goal or is one okay with simply striving for it with failure to attain it an option?

Whatever the goal, the necessary 'work' must be put in to actually attain that goal or failure will be the result. Practice alone will not get it done, but quality practice & dedication stands a much better chance of success.

My $0.02
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
there are a lot of ways to become great at something.. pool is similar in this regard to music..

you have the "rock and roll approach" the person who through sheer love becomes exceptionally good at a small piece of the whole.. think 80's pop metal lead guitar...

on the other hand you have a classically trained pianist who has mastered every scale, in every key, over a wide range of tempos and they learned it through regimented practice...even if they didn't feel like it...

one of them can't even read music and only play's "crazy train" once in a while at parties

the other can play any piece of music ever written... on demand

I know how I want to train...

True, and then you have the classically trained pianist who did everything they were supposed to do in training and can play anything on demand, yet the pieces don't come alive when they play them. Maybe it's because there were lots of times that they forced themselves to practice even though they didn't feel like it. I don't know.

I've noticed that people who aspire to greatness feel like practicing a whole lot. With pool, I remember hearing stories all the time and seeing first hand in some cases, of how they couldn't wait to get to the table. It's more than just love of the game. There's a natural curiosity there to figure things out.
 

PGHteacher

John Fischer
Silver Member
PGHteacher...Well, you can disagree if you like, but softshot is correct. If you know what to practice, why you're practicing, how to practice it correctly (so that you can measure your results), then 2 hours (or less) per day will yield significant results for many players. It's far more about the "how" and "why" than how much.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

but reality says you don't need "all day everyday " to make progress you only need 2hours or so per day.. and I say just about everybody can restructure their lives to get 2hours a day 5 times a week..if they really want to..

I did not disagree with the point he made there, I disagreed with the statement "everyone has ___ to devote to pool if they want to" reread my post I think you missed my point. I never said you have to put in "X" amount of time, nor did I say you don't need to know what to practice why to and how to, those were the points I agreed with him on. I have been saying the same things you just said to me for a dozen years sir. Read the bold, there is where I disageed with him.
 
Last edited:

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Code:
[QUOTE="Scott Lee, post: 3808548, member: 1499"]PGHteacher...Well, you can disagree if you like, but softshot is correct.  If you know what to practice, why you're practicing, how to practice it correctly (so that you can measure your results), then 2 hours (or less) per day will yield significant results for many players.  It's far more about the "how" and "why" than how much.

Scott Lee
[url]http://poolknowledge.com[/url]

[QUOTE="softshot, post: 3806830, member: 17863"]but reality says you don't need "all day everyday " to make progress you only need 2hours or so per day.. [B][SIZE="3"]and I say just about everybody can restructure their lives to get 2hours a day 5 times a week..if they really want to..[/SIZE][/B]


I did not disagree with the point he made there, I disagreed with the statement "everyone has ___ to devote to pool if they want to" reread my post I think you missed my point. I never said you have to put in "X" amount of time, nor did I say you don't need to know what to practice why to and how to, those were the points I agreed with him on. I have been saying the same things you just said to me for a dozen years sir. Read the [B][SIZE="3"]bold, there is where I disageed with him.[/SIZE][/B]

PGHT:

No offense, but you need to get your quoting tags straight. I'm having a hard time dissecting the above -- it's a mess. :)

Quick tip: for every [ QUOTE=so-and-so;thread-number ] tag, you have to have a matching [ /QUOTE ] tag. (BTW, I included spaces behind and in front of the opening and closing square-brackets so that vBulletin doesn't try to interpret my text as actual tags. Obviously, you need to have no spaces in the tags themselves.) If you miss any [ /QUOTE ] end-tag, you end up with the mess shown above. When in doubt (i.e. you're not sure of what you're doing), DON'T MESS with anything in square brackets.

Just FYI,
-Sean
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Fran,

In other words, it's not necessarily the quantity of practice time but instead it's the quality of the practice time. Everyone is different. Some need 30 reps & some need 3,000 reps.

It should also be relative to the goal in mind. What does one want relative to the game? Once that has been determined, the question becomes, does one want to succeed in attaining that goal or is one okay with simply striving for it with failure to attain it an option?

Whatever the goal, the necessary 'work' must be put in to actually attain that goal or failure will be the result. Practice alone will not get it done, but quality practice & dedication stands a much better chance of success.

My $0.02

Hi Rick,

Yes, I think that's a big piece of the puzzle but I think there's more as well.

Still working on it....
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Quality of practice trumps quantity of practice everytime, in any endeavor.

The real key is to be able to maintain real quality practice for longer periods of time. Simply putting time in can be counter-productive, as you could be reinforcing bad habits, techniques, mechanics....just for the sake of "practicing" for x amount of hours.

Now I gotta get me some (more) "quality" practice time, and soon!

Thanks again, all of you instructors (and knowledgeable non-instructors) that continue to provide help here. I don't think that gets said often enough. It is greatly appreciated, and who knows how many lurkers are reading these forums, getting with their progress too.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
Great post.

Hi Fran,

In other words, it's not necessarily the quantity of practice time but instead it's the quality of the practice time. Everyone is different. Some need 30 reps & some need 3,000 reps.

It should also be relative to the goal in mind. What does one want relative to the game? Once that has been determined, the question becomes, does one want to succeed in attaining that goal or is one okay with simply striving for it with failure to attain it an option?

Whatever the goal, the necessary 'work' must be put in to actually attain that goal or failure will be the result. Practice alone will not get it done, but quality practice & dedication stands a much better chance of success.

My $0.02
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
Great post too.

Your right it is tough to practice intensely for long periods of time.

Breaking it up in smaller sessions can help. Taking a break, to recharge can help you keep focus.


Quality of practice trumps quantity of practice everytime, in any endeavor.

The real key is to be able to maintain real quality practice for longer periods of time. Simply putting time in can be counter-productive, as you could be reinforcing bad habits, techniques, mechanics....just for the sake of "practicing" for x amount of hours.

Now I gotta get me some (more) "quality" practice time, and soon!

Thanks again, all of you instructors (and knowledgeable non-instructors) that continue to provide help here. I don't think that gets said often enough. It is greatly appreciated, and who knows how many lurkers are reading these forums, getting with their progress too.
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Some players can't wait to get to the table to practice. Some players look at practice as an unsavory and grueling task, like homework, when they'd rather be out doing something more fun.

If you don't enjoy practicing, do you find yourself finding reasons not to practice?

I've encountered this with students who don't even consciously realize how much they hate to practice.

Just some food for thought in case you're one of those players who wants to improve but can't seem to find the time to practice. Maybe you really don't have the time. But just maybe it's something more than that.

Do you really know yourself?

Instructors: Have you noticed this about students?

Hi Fran:

Definitely. I'm not an instructor (in the certified sense), but I do often get asked for lessons.

One of my students -- we'll call him Doug -- also later became one of Scott Lee's students. Doug is an older gentleman (l-o-n-g retired school teacher) and is a "fixated" type of player -- meaning, he has his fixed ideas on how pool should be played, what to him means excellence, and even what constitutes "practice and drilling." He (at the time, when he was asking me for lessons) was an APA "4" in 8-ball.

Doug likes to specialize at the "singles boards" in the APA -- meaning, he's not into the team format, but rather goes his own to the regional singles boards (held at a regional APA stronghold in East Windsor, CT). In weeks prior to those events, he would say that he sequesters himself in his home, and in his words, "drills and drills and drills 'til his fingers bleed." He would spend entire weekends doing this, and when I'd see him on Tuesday league nights (back then -- a couple of years ago) -- I'd see no difference in his playing abilities. He'd miss the same type of shots he always had, blunder the same type of safeties he always had, and just in general "be the same old Doug." I even pointed that out to him -- in a respectful but tough love way -- and he admitted that he was lost, and didn't know what to do to break through to the next level of play. He asked me for lessons.

With my hectic work schedule, I don't have enough hours in the day to give formal regimented lessons, so when Doug asked me for lessons, I gave him tips on fundamentals (I saw many weaknesses in his form -- classic APA skill-level 4 stuff). However, I knew right away that I was only scratching the iceberg with Doug, and he needed more than I could give him, time-commitment and breadth-of-structured-content wise.

So I sent Doug to Scott. Fast forward, and needless to say, the lesson (a day commitment) went extremely well. Doug came back with his head spinning, and his form definitely looked different -- it looked a lot better. Video playback and analysis does wonders for resetting your view of what you think you're doing, vs. what you're actually doing. That same year, Doug went really deep in the 4/5 bracket Nationals in Vegas (he came in 9th and 5th in consecutive years, when he wouldn't even cash prior).

He openly admits the time and funds he spent on formal lessons was the best money he ever spent on pool. Yet, he knows he needs more, and when Scott's in the area for potential follow-up lessons, Doug will find an excuse out of it. He has the same old practice regimen, which is no regimen at all. Instead of practicing his Mother Drills, he just throws balls up on the table and proceeds to pocket them. No practicing his break (his break is weak by even 4/5 standards), no practicing banks, no practice in spin/follow/draw, no position-play practice, nothing. Just randomly throw balls up on the table and try to pocket them.

And each time when he complains that, although the lessons were the best thing he ever did, when I mention that Scott might be in the area or close, or that he could follow-on with lessons from Tony Robles, et al., Doug would reply with excuses that he can't, because he would be "embarrassed" that he didn't practice his Mother Drills, and that Scott would see this right away.

Instead, he tries to tap me for "freebie" quickie tips, in much the same as most pool players (that've never experienced a regimented way of learning how to play pool) do. You know, the "magic pill" approach that sadly, most pool players at his (and even lower/upper) levels do. And I'll quickly tell him -- when he asks "how to do so-and-so" -- that it's covered in his Mother Drills.

He's got himself in a never-ending spiral, like a dog chasing its tail.

It's really frustrating, too, because he has the wherewithal to become better, yet chooses to not change his ways.

-Sean
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
I like what Ben Hogan did for golf practice, having an index card of notes to bring to the table. Whether playing a match or at practice, I almost always have a few checkpoints and shots or concepts I'm working on.

Students need to do this also so they lock in concepts from lessons received.
 
Top