John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

duckie said:
Hmmmmm, I wonder if those that gave Matt grief of his use of chin lock claiming that his use was not the accepted industry standard will do the same here.

The use of margin of error here is not the industry standard.
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Who is Matt and what is his pool resume? Has he won any world championships?

I will be happy to try his "chin lock" if he has the hardware to back up his advice. Otherwise I might or might not be inclined to listen to what he has to say. If he is a well known instructor with a lot of happy clients like Scott Lee or Stan Shuffett then I will be more interested in what he as to say. But if he is a B player or a 3 in his local tournament's handicap system then maybe I don't really want to put too much effort into following his advice.

Free passes come with results. The more results you can prove the more of a free pass you get to be a little loose with the vernacular IMO.
 
JB Cases said:
Who is Matt and what is his pool resume? Has he won any world championships?

I will be happy to try his "chin lock" if he has the hardware to back up his advice. Otherwise I might or might not be inclined to listen to what he has to say. If he is a well known instructor with a lot of happy clients like Scott Lee or Stan Shuffett then I will be more interested in what he as to say. But if he is a B player or a 3 in his local tournament's handicap system then maybe I don't really want to put too much effort into following his advice.

Free passes come with results. The more results you can prove the more of a free pass you get to be a little loose with the vernacular IMO.
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John:

Not sure if you caught it, but Greg's comment was a swipe at Fran Crimi, Scott Lee, a couple others, and myself, for Matt's "claimed proprietorship" of the term "chin lock" in one of his articles -- when it's well-known in the industry to have been originated by Jerry Briesath. And they were both describing the same thing, which, harks back to Jerry's instructional videos series that date back to the 1980s, and before that as well.

It went back and forth, but ultimately, Matt was forced to change his article and put a little attribution to Jerry.

Here's the link:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3803163#post3803163

Just wanted to set the record straight on that one. But of course, Greg's using his QA Tester "pedantics" to attempt a swipe. ;)

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
John:

Not sure if you caught it, but Greg's comment was a swipe at Fran Crimi, Scott Lee, a couple others, and myself, for Matt's "claimed proprietorship" of the term "chin lock" in one of his articles -- when it's well-known in the industry to have been originated by Jerry Briesath. And they were both describing the same thing, which, harks back to Jerry's instructional videos series that date back to the 1980s, and before that as well.

It went back and forth, but ultimately, Matt was forced to change his article and put a little attribution to Jerry.

Here's the link:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3803163#post3803163

Just wanted to set the record straight on that one. But of course, Greg's using his QA Tester "pedantics" to attempt a swipe. ;)

-Sean
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I see, I guess I missed that one. Well not giving credit where credit is due happens to be one of the things that is sadly prevalent these days.
 
I am deep enough into using "the touch of inside" that I am using it in my game instead of just the practice table. I am finding myself using different patterns. Killing the CB more. This is a great tool and I feel it will only get better. Thanks CJ for opening my eyes to it
 
peteypooldude said:
I am deep enough into using "the touch of inside" that I am using it in my game instead of just the practice table. I am finding myself using different patterns. Killing the CB more. This is a great tool and I feel it will only get better. Thanks CJ for opening my eyes to it
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I think I'm in the reverse of Pete's statement....I caught myself lining up that way in a tournament yesterday, and I'm really not at the point that I should be doing so in competition yet. :p

I do like it tho. I'll get there.
 
justadub said:
I think I'm in the reverse of Pete's statement....I caught myself lining up that way in a tournament yesterday, and I'm really not at the point that I should be doing so in competition yet. :p

I do like it tho. I'll get there.
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You haven't trained yours eyes enough to the new look.What looks rite is wrong and what looks wrong is closer to being rite.:smile:(at first)Whole lot of shots in pool are like this.Its hard to pull the trigger on shots that look off but its a must.
It takes a lot of practice(rite) to get the brain(teach the eyes) and our eyes(lie to the brain until taught) on the same page.I'm still working on it and I've been playing over twenty years.:grin:

Sorry for my bad spelling..lol I cant help it.


Just my 2 cents
Anthony
 
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8pack said:
You haven't trained yours eyes enough to the new look.What looks rite is wrong and what looks wrong is closer to being rite.:smile:(at first)Whole lot of shots in pool are like this.Its hard to pull the trigger on shots that look off but its a must.
It takes a lot of practice(rite) to get the brain(teach the eyes) and or eyes(lie to the brain until taught) on the same page.I'm still working on it and I've been playing over twenty years.:grin:


Just my 2 cents
Anthony
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I know what your talking about, your taught to cue left and it throws right, it is a brain twist in the beggining to cue inside to overcut rather than cue outside and spin it in
If that makes sense lol
 
peteypooldude said:
I know what your talking about, your taught to cue left and it throws right, it is a brain twist in the beggining to cue inside to overcut rather than cue outside and spin it in
If that makes sense lol
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Cj posting on here(about inside touch) has really made me think about center ball.
Now I,m thinking you know I think I've miss more balls with center then anything else.Not because my aim was bad but the ball just doesn't always roll correctly.(high and dead center and speed your asking for trouble)
I think I'm going do more deflecting and more spinning just to see if my game changes. Cant hurt ...just as long as I'm not gambling:grin:
 
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peteypooldude said:
I am deep enough into using "the touch of inside" that I am using it in my game instead of just the practice table. I am finding myself using different patterns. Killing the CB more. This is a great tool and I feel it will only get better. Thanks CJ for opening my eyes to it
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The thing with this or even using center ball is that when you do really NEED to use something more to get position then it's much easier to go there. And I personally find that I don't need to use as much as previously thought to move the cue ball around the table.
 
JB Cases said:
The thing with this or even using center ball is that when you do really NEED to use something more to get position then it's much easier to go there. And I personally find that I don't need to use as much as previously thought to move the cue ball around the table.
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John, a lot like you I am a CTE user. I still am but now I adjust for the " inside" while standing. I still am struggling a little whith the steeper angles when in the middle of the table. I am not spinning it though, it's more of a speed/stroke shot to me. Kind of like a slow/medium speed draw shot stroke.
Where such speed is required of course. I'm still working with it but it's a keeper
 
peteypooldude said:
John, a lot like you I am a CTE user. I still am but now I adjust for the " inside" while standing. I still am struggling a little whith the steeper angles when in the middle of the table. I am not spinning it though, it's more of a speed/stroke shot to me. Kind of like a slow/medium speed draw shot stroke.
Where such speed is required of course. I'm still working with it but it's a keeper
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Oh I absolutely use CTE to drop onto the shot. 100% without fail. Then as I am coming into the shot I adjust for the touch of inside if I need to, mostly I simply just address the ball with a tiny but of inside. But if I need to add a little more juice then I do it on the final stroke. So far it's working pretty good and I notice that my accuracy is up.
 
8pack said:
You haven't trained yours eyes enough to the new look.What looks rite is wrong and what looks wrong is closer to being rite.:smile:(at first)Whole lot of shots in pool are like this.Its hard to pull the trigger on shots that look off but its a must.
It takes a lot of practice(rite) to get the brain(teach the eyes) and our eyes(lie to the brain until taught) on the same page.I'm still working on it and I've been playing over twenty years.:grin:

Sorry for my bad spelling..lol I cant help it.


Just my 2 cents
Anthony
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Great posting Anthony!

Hope your doing well my friend :-)

lg from overseas,

ingo
 
Still don't get something about this approach, maybe JB or Petey can shed some light.

So when using CTE (or Pro1, SEE, etc), in theory you are aligning to make the ball with center ball and center pocket. So if I come down on the shot with a touch of inside, and don't change my alignment somehow, I'm not using all of the pocket, actually making my shot less accurate.

I can easily visually adjust somewhat on straight or near straight shots after initial alignment to start the shot at the proper part of the pocket, but would find this difficult to do systematically on steeper cuts, as it would be tough to tell exactly how much to adjust one's aim. Of course I could estimate it visually, but then to me that takes away the consistency of the CTE/Pro1/SEE approach.

Thoughts?
Scott
 
I use a different approach when I use a touch of inside. I don't aim and move over to cue inside. I aim for center cue ball and then move over in a parallel fashion. I don't angle the cue stick as if I'm applying english. I stroke through the shot thinking I'm hitting center ball.

After using the method for a little while, I've learned to slightly line up a fraction to the left or right of center. It is so slight, I had to stop and double check it at first. Now that I know the amount of offset, I just take a quick double check mentally before I get down on the shot that this is how I want to cue the ball.

Some posters have been saying this technique is nothing more than aiming to compensate for squirt. They are talking about something different. The cue ball still squirts/deflects, but the cue stick is not angled for english. You don't want english to affect the shot. I move over parallel to the shot and don't compensate. Too much to think about. Pull the trigger and worry about your position instead of how much squirt you're putting on the cue ball.

I stay almost on dead center cue ball. I spent some time lagging the cue ball across the table and still do until I'm locked in on this method. The cue ball only moves over a couple of inches when it returns to my tip. I do it fast and slow. The reason I do it cross table is because if you try it the length of the table and you cue low, swerve comes into play and the ball doesn't return to your tip. I noted this and saw how far the cue ball turned for future reference on long shots.

Best,
Mike
 
Mikjary said:
I use a different approach when I use a touch of inside. I don't aim and move over to cue inside. I aim for center cue ball and then move over in a parallel fashion. I don't angle the cue stick as if I'm applying english. I stroke through the shot thinking I'm hitting center ball.

After using the method for a little while, I've learned to slightly line up a fraction to the left or right of center. It is so slight, I had to stop and double check it at first. Now that I know the amount of offset, I just take a quick double check mentally before I get down on the shot that this is how I want to cue the ball.

Some posters have been saying this technique is nothing more than aiming to compensate for squirt. They are talking about something different. The cue ball still squirts/deflects, but the cue stick is not angled for english. You don't want english to affect the shot. I move over parallel to the shot and don't compensate. Too much to think about. Pull the trigger and worry about your position instead of how much squirt you're putting on the cue ball.

I stay almost on dead center cue ball. I spent some time lagging the cue ball across the table and still do until I'm locked in on this method. The cue ball only moves over a couple of inches when it returns to my tip. I do it fast and slow. The reason I do it cross table is because if you try it the length of the table and you cue low, swerve comes into play and the ball doesn't return to your tip. I noted this and saw how far the cue ball turned for future reference on long shots.

Best,
Mike
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Mike,

Sounds like you are doing what I 'subconsciously' do when I shoot with 'parallel' english. The sense is that you're still stroking 'straight' unlike BHE or FHE or Combo B&FHE. The idea is that the squirt & swerve will 'cancel' out & make the right contact for the spin induced throw.

With CJ's technique, you're 'taking out' the swerve & relying on the squirt to add a little more cut to the middle of the pocket. I'm still using a combination ghost / fractional ball 'subconscious' kind of aiming, so I can't speak to the aiming system variations.

Well, I'm heading out to shoot a little.

Mike, you & everyone else, have a good afternoon.
 
Mikjary said:
Some posters have been saying this technique is nothing more than aiming to compensate for squirt. They are talking about something different. The cue ball still squirts/deflects, but the cue stick is not angled for english.
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The stick is angled away from your actual target (center pocket), exactly the way it's angled normally to hit center pocket with side. We're talking about the same thing.

pj <- how hard is this?
chgo
 
scottjen26 said:
Still don't get something about this approach, maybe JB or Petey can shed some light.

So when using CTE (or Pro1, SEE, etc), in theory you are aligning to make the ball with center ball and center pocket. So if I come down on the shot with a touch of inside, and don't change my alignment somehow, I'm not using all of the pocket, actually making my shot less accurate.

I can easily visually adjust somewhat on straight or near straight shots after initial alignment to start the shot at the proper part of the pocket, but would find this difficult to do systematically on steeper cuts, as it would be tough to tell exactly how much to adjust one's aim. Of course I could estimate it visually, but then to me that takes away the consistency of the CTE/Pro1/SEE approach.

Thoughts?
Scott
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What I did to incorporate into my CTE routine was really not that difficult . I dont use the manual pivot anymore and I can see from my CTE alignment (while standing) the edge of the pocket I am aiming at and bend down and make sure I deflect the CB. I still use my CTE alignment but on straighter shots I like playing the pocket with CJs method. I adjust my patterns more for shots where I can 100% of the time hit the intended side of the CB. Both systems have a place in my game. Other than my preferred angles I use CTE and center pocket
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The stick is angled away from your actual target (center pocket), exactly the way it's angled normally to hit center pocket with side. We're talking about the same thing.

pj <- how hard is this?
chgo
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If you used the technique, you would find out that this is different. I have played as you describe for years. It takes hours to start to see the change. You will not understand it until you try the method.

Aiming for center pocket and not knowing where the object ball and cue ball are going due to compensation for squirt is limiting your game. I'll repeat the fact that I used to hit center pocket and used either side for my margin of error so that you don't have to repeat how hard this is to understand. You don't do the method, skimmed through the instructions and know exactly why it doesn't work. THAT is what's hard to understand! :confused:

Best,
Mike
 
There's something that I've been doing lately when using any sidespin, and I've been pocketing balls with ease.

Basically, I aim the OB at the point on the pocket on the side that would be considered an undercut hit. It seems to work well with both outside and inside english.
 
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