TheThaiger
Banned
How much will it retail for?
WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
Why must you always make up crap? Do you get that big a thrill out of adding nothing but gas to the fires??
I have no intention or desire to drive CJ from the "boards". I only want him to clarify things and make clear the difference between what works for almost everyone and what is unique to him. And to describe things in a way that makes sense. He is getting better at describing things in words. The way he was describing things was baloney, and he got called on it.
If you tighten your muscles in the hand or wrist by attempting to direct the stroke thats what slows down the stroke. Sure the centrifugal force makes the hand pivot at the wrist. Just as in a great golf swing that is unobstructed with muscles tightening.
TheThaiger
Banned
No, but I do enjoy exposing hypocrisy. I also enjoy seeing the sanctimonious squirm.
This is a great post. It clears up a few things for me. Especially the grip. I found myself relying on my thumb and first two fingers for most of my shots. I know you said to move the stick out of the palm, but the stick is resting against the first knuckle at the edge of the palm. I feel like I'm using the Busty grip now. :smile:
Best,
Mike
I like that "nervous tension" Ben Hogan relates to
Have you ever seen a martial artist put his hand through brick or boards? I know your point, but don't think for a moment that their hand is not tight. You can tighten your hand and still be relaxed in your arm.
Ben Hogan used to to talk of a "nervous tension" in his golf swing and Tiger Woods isn't exactly relaxed when he swings. I was trained playing "big money" matches and if someone tried to play "relaxed" against me.....well.....you can ask other people what happened to them.
I'm just speaking from my own experience, not somone elses. If you can play relaxed by all means continue to do so, I'm just not of the same mind set. I like that "nervous tension" Ben Hogan relates to because when you're in the heat of battle it's second nature to tighten. Trying to stay too relaxed is going against what's natural and that can cause conflict. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Have you ever seen a martial artist put his hand through brick or boards? I know your point, but don't think for a moment that their hand is not tight. You can tighten your hand and still be relaxed in your arm.
Ben Hogan used to to talk of a "nervous tension" in his golf swing and Tiger Woods isn't exactly relaxed when he swings. I was trained playing "big money" matches and if someone tried to play "relaxed" against me.....well.....you can ask other people what happened to them.
I'm just speaking from my own experience, not somone elses. If you can play relaxed by all means continue to do so, I'm just not of the same mind set. I like that "nervous tension" Ben Hogan relates to because when you're in the heat of battle it's second nature to tighten. Trying to stay too relaxed is going against what's natural and that can cause conflict. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Question for you CJ
I hope I word this correctly.
Do you close (squeeze) the grip at tip contact with the cue ball or during the measurement of the shot close (squeeze) the grip on the OB.
I call it a pure hit. Not over hitting or under hitting the OB.
Or is the closing (squeezing) of the grip shot dependent.
Oh, good morning. :smile:
Thank You
John
I hope I word this correctly.
Do you close (squeeze) the grip at tip contact with the cue ball or during the measurement of the shot close (squeeze) the grip on the OB.
I call it a pure hit. Not over hitting or under hitting the OB.
Or is the closing (squeezing) of the grip shot dependent.
Oh, good morning. :smile:
Thank You
John
Hi John,
I believe CJ said he wants a consistant grip 'pressure' throughout the stroke. I believe he even said that on a power shot he might even 'practice' the stroke to get the end grip pressure & maintain that pressure from start to finish.
I tried the 'hip set' advice on the dining room table this morning (we moved my table to my son's house). It seems to work much better as the stroke was straight with less tension & no twisting. I plan to try it out asap.
Have a good weekend,
A question for CJ
I was watching Earl Strickland vs. CJ Wiley at the U.S. Open
At 2:00, the first shot after the opening break it looked like you had your index finger pointed down the shaft of the cue. Upon reviewing it, I see it was an illusion and the lighting made it appear that way. Many many years ago I did experiment shooting with my index finger extended along the shaft and pointing at the cue ball. Would that be similar to but an exaggeration of your wrist/hand position?
I was watching Earl Strickland vs. CJ Wiley at the U.S. Open
At 2:00, the first shot after the opening break it looked like you had your index finger pointed down the shaft of the cue. Upon reviewing it, I see it was an illusion and the lighting made it appear that way. Many many years ago I did experiment shooting with my index finger extended along the shaft and pointing at the cue ball. Would that be similar to but an exaggeration of your wrist/hand position?
Thanks Rick.
Since CJ suggested the hammer stroke I have paid real close attention to the better players stroking action. Now I can see what they are doing, pretty simple once someone points it out. Its more of a flowing movement.
Dont forget to keep your left foot in line with the shot line.
You have a good weekend also.
I'll be watching the Big Truck Show all afternoon and paying attention to some of the players basics.
John
Has somebody been telling lies, CJ?
pj
chgo
It's more like fingerprints, everyone's are slightly different when magnified.
I personally use a consistant grip pressure. Many do have a very light grip and then tighten at impact.
I know many top players though the years that shared my same opinions, however they did use the light grip.
This, to me is the personal part of pool. It's more like fingerprints, everyone's are slightly different when magnified. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I personally use a consistant grip pressure. Many do have a very light grip and then tighten at impact.
I know many top players though the years that shared my same opinions, however they did use the light grip.
This, to me is the personal part of pool. It's more like fingerprints, everyone's are slightly different when magnified. 'The Game is the Teacher'
]Make sure you cock the TIP up in FRONT of your eyes before you go down
No, I would not recommend extending your finger in any way, shape or form. Eveyone's grip is a personal matter and no two are exactly alike.
I prefer to grip my cue like I do a Hammer or Axe so my fingers are in control, yet my wrist is free to work up and down. I could show you many ways to achieve different cue ball reactions by how you pre set your wrist, but I don't have desire to try to communicate it in writing.
Some of these things MUST be done in person, so there's no confusion. The main thing is to get your wrist/fingers in a position BEFORE you get down on the ball doing practice strokes to feel that groove/slot and hinge of your wrist.
Make sure you cock the TIP up in FRONT of your eyes before you go down on the shot. The reason is important, you want to start with your eyes looking at the TIP because that's where they will be after you're down on the "Line of the Shot".
Sounds like a small thing, but take my word for it, IT's a BIG thing and it could be the "difference that makes the difference". 'The Game is the Teacher'
No, I would not recommend extending your finger in any way, shape or form. Eveyone's grip is a personal matter and no two are exactly alike.
I prefer to grip my cue like I do a Hammer or Axe so my fingers are in control, yet my wrist is free to work up and down. I could show you many ways to achieve different cue ball reactions by how you pre set your wrist, but I don't have desire to try to communicate it in writing.
Some of these things MUST be done in person, so there's no confusion. The main thing is to get your wrist/fingers in a position BEFORE you get down on the ball doing practice strokes to feel that groove/slot and hinge of your wrist.
Make sure you cock the TIP up in FRONT of your eyes before you go down on the shot. The reason is important, you want to start with your eyes looking at the TIP because that's where they will be after you're down on the "Line of the Shot".
Sounds like a small thing, but take my word for it, IT's a BIG thing and it could be the "difference that makes the difference". 'The Game is the Teacher'
I will also sign it to whom ever you want if you want to use it as a gift
$24.95 and the first 50 orders I will include a signed poster. I will also sign it to whom ever you want if you want to use it as a gift for Christmas or Birthday.
$24.95 and the first 50 orders I will include a signed poster. I will also sign it to whom ever you want if you want to use it as a gift for Christmas or Birthday.
CJ:
Here’s a regrettably fuzzy, occasionally jumpy 7-minute 1980 video that nevertheless amply demonstrates Willie Mosconi’s firm and ultra-confident delivery stroke that’s also capable of great subtlety (note the cute nip/slide-draw he executes at 3:40 that has to avoid the break ball he’s setting up on by a scant millimeter).
Though we can’t conclude exactly how tightly he’s gripping, his evident slip stroke would indicate that his grip is apparently loose at least during and after cue ball impact (except for the several shots when he atypically raises his stick way up in the air after impact . . . hard to do that with a loose grip of course).
His form and delivery stroke are most clearly able to be studied at these video points:
-- 2:10
-- 2:52
-- 5:20
-- 6:15
-- 7:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKw56oAA-E&feature=related
What would be your opinion on Mosconi’s pre-setting of, and use of, his wrist during most of the shots seen on this video? I saw him in person a few times and he seemed to have a very "wristy" stroke, as best as I could describe it. Thanks in advance, CJ.
Arnaldo
Here’s a regrettably fuzzy, occasionally jumpy 7-minute 1980 video that nevertheless amply demonstrates Willie Mosconi’s firm and ultra-confident delivery stroke that’s also capable of great subtlety (note the cute nip/slide-draw he executes at 3:40 that has to avoid the break ball he’s setting up on by a scant millimeter).
Though we can’t conclude exactly how tightly he’s gripping, his evident slip stroke would indicate that his grip is apparently loose at least during and after cue ball impact (except for the several shots when he atypically raises his stick way up in the air after impact . . . hard to do that with a loose grip of course).
His form and delivery stroke are most clearly able to be studied at these video points:
-- 2:10
-- 2:52
-- 5:20
-- 6:15
-- 7:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKw56oAA-E&feature=related
What would be your opinion on Mosconi’s pre-setting of, and use of, his wrist during most of the shots seen on this video? I saw him in person a few times and he seemed to have a very "wristy" stroke, as best as I could describe it. Thanks in advance, CJ.
Arnaldo
the systems/techniques that allows the Game to play through them
I don't believe it's the "somebody's" that lie, I think it's somebody's perception that is lying. We can't always believe our eyes/logic/perception when it comes to people, intentions and sports techniques.
There is no "cookie cutter" way of doing things at the highest level. When it somes to the Game of Pocket Billiards many "contemperary methods" don't allow the ultimate outcome for enjoyment.
Saying the "cue does all the work" to me is like believing the "pen does all the writing" for an author, or "the brush does all the painting" for a famous painter.
These things are said from lack of experience.....the experience of the game playing through them, rather than them trying to play the game.
The greatest experience, (in my opinion) is when someone learns the systems/techniques that allows the Game to play through their HANDS. It's not necessarily about playing a LOT better, it's about enjoying the Game a LOT more. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I don't believe it's the "somebody's" that lie, I think it's somebody's perception that is lying. We can't always believe our eyes/logic/perception when it comes to people, intentions and sports techniques.
There is no "cookie cutter" way of doing things at the highest level. When it somes to the Game of Pocket Billiards many "contemperary methods" don't allow the ultimate outcome for enjoyment.
Saying the "cue does all the work" to me is like believing the "pen does all the writing" for an author, or "the brush does all the painting" for a famous painter.
These things are said from lack of experience.....the experience of the game playing through them, rather than them trying to play the game.
The greatest experience, (in my opinion) is when someone learns the systems/techniques that allows the Game to play through their HANDS. It's not necessarily about playing a LOT better, it's about enjoying the Game a LOT more. 'The Game is the Teacher'
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One thing that's essential is to maintain CONTROL of your cue throughout your stroke
No one will ever question Mosconi's skill in Straight Pool. I especially like how he addresses the cue ball by just measuring up to it. He doesn't get caught up with practice strokes, but hits the shots with authority.
He probably holds the cue lightly, but watch on some of his follow throughs when the cue (and his hand) finishes almost violently to his left. You can see he's squeezing the cue and finishes in a powerful position.
This shows {to me} that he used his wrist to increase power and accuracy with a slight "slip stroke". Again, watch how he "whips" the cue to his left after contact several times with his hand, in a forceful follow through.
One thing that's essential is to maintain CONTROL of your cue throughout your stroke, especially on "stroke shots".
I also like how Mosconi stands up a bit taller than what you see these days. I don't believe you have to get really low on the cue to enjoy the game and play at a high level. 'The Game is the Teacher'
No one will ever question Mosconi's skill in Straight Pool. I especially like how he addresses the cue ball by just measuring up to it. He doesn't get caught up with practice strokes, but hits the shots with authority.
He probably holds the cue lightly, but watch on some of his follow throughs when the cue (and his hand) finishes almost violently to his left. You can see he's squeezing the cue and finishes in a powerful position.
This shows {to me} that he used his wrist to increase power and accuracy with a slight "slip stroke". Again, watch how he "whips" the cue to his left after contact several times with his hand, in a forceful follow through.
One thing that's essential is to maintain CONTROL of your cue throughout your stroke, especially on "stroke shots".
I also like how Mosconi stands up a bit taller than what you see these days. I don't believe you have to get really low on the cue to enjoy the game and play at a high level. 'The Game is the Teacher'
No one will ever question Mosconi's skill in Straight Pool. I especially like how he addresses the cue ball by just measuring up to it. He doesn't get caught up with practice strokes, but hits the shots with authority.
He probably holds the cue lightly, but watch on some of his follow throughs when the cue (and his hand) finishes almost violently to his left. You can see he's squeezing the cue and finishes in a powerful position.
This shows {to me} that he used his wrist to increase power and accuracy with a slight "slip stroke". Again, watch how he "whips" the cue to his left after contact several times with his hand, in a forceful follow through.
One thing that's essential is to maintain CONTROL of your cue throughout your stroke, especially on "stroke shots".
I also like how Mosconi stands up a bit taller than what you see these days. I don't believe you have to get really low on the cue to enjoy the game and play at a high level. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Yea, I don't think Jimmy Moore or Luther got down on the ball low.
