WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Wrists/Fingers - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke - CJ Wiley

There appear to be three different techniques for the wrist to assist the pocket billiards stroke. The first one is the wrists don't do much at all, the second is they cock up as you hit the cue ball and finish the stroke and the other is the wrists uncock down as the cue ball is struck and the follow through is completed.

The way I play is definitely with the wrists cocking down as I contact the cue ball. I have been committed to this technique the last couple of days and it's amazing the results. The thing about my technique is I can pre cock my wrists very precisely and that was how I consistently produce powerful stoke shots with such accuracy. This, ironically is what I've been struggling with the most. I seemed to have lost my "power source" that effortlessly produced pin point accuracy when striking the cue ball.

Many of you will not benefit from this information (because the way you use your wrists work fine for you), and others will benefit immensely when you're still searching to improve your stroke and accuracy.

I personally found a missing part to my "personal puzzle" and I'm surprised I didn't "real eyes" how important this technique was for me. Sometimes the simplest answers complete the most complex problems {for myself}.

For some reason my "reasonable" mind says "use outside english", however a "Touch of Inside" produces best results, and my mind says "don't use the wrists", however uncocking my wrists like I'm using a hammer is most effective, and my mind says "root against my opponent" when pulling for my opponent works best. The key to life seems to be making myself do {at times} what I least "naturally" want to do. As I get "more experienced" I see that unfolding in many areas.

The Moral of the story? "Reasonable" thoughts and techniques can often be the wrong thoughts and techniques to reach the highest levels. To separate yourself you must be "Unreasonable" at times. 'The Game is the Teacher'
shane-van-boening-ts.jpg
catalyst.jpg
 
Last edited:

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey CJ.

Thanks for the post.

I think that preparing to throw a dart at a dart board may be a simular action.

I have incorporated the "hammer" into my practice routine.

Hope to hear more.

John
 

peteypooldude

I see Edges
Silver Member
There appear to be three different techniques for the wrist to assist the pocket billiards stroke. The first one is the wrists don't do much at all, the second is they cock up as you hit the cue ball and finish the stroke and the other is the wrists uncock down as the cue ball is struck and the follow through is completed.

The way I play is definitely with the wrists cocking down as I contact the cue ball. I have been committed to this technique the last couple of days and it's amazing the results. The thing about my technique is I can pre cock my wrists very precisely and that was how I consistently produce powerful stoke shots with such accuracy. This, ironically is what I've been struggling with the most. I seemed to have lost my "power source" that effortlessly produced pin point accuracy when striking the cue ball.

Many of you will not benefit from this information (because the way you use your wrists work fine for you), and others will benefit immensely when you're still searching to improve your stroke and accuracy.

I personally found a missing part to my "personal puzzle" and I'm surprised I didn't "real eyes" how important this technique was for me. Sometimes the simplest answers complete the most complex problems {for myself}.

For some reason my "reasonable" mind says "use outside english", however a "Touch of Inside" produces best results, and my mind says "don't use the wrists", however uncocking my wrists like I'm using a hammer is most effective, and my mind says "root against my opponent" when pulling for my opponent works best. The key to life seems to be making myself do {at times} what I least "naturally" want to do. As I get "more experienced" I see that unfolding in many areas.

The Moral of the story? "Reasonable" thoughts and techniques can often be the wrong thoughts and techniques to reach the highest levels. To separate yourself you must be "Unreasonable" at times. 'The Game is the Teacher'
shane-van-boening-ts.jpg
catalyst.jpg

What direction are you cocking , like Shane's photo? Any wrist moving or locked?
Thanks a lot
 
Last edited:

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
"effortless effort" is the sign of a great stroke

Hey CJ.

Thanks for the post.

I think that preparing to throw a dart at a dart board may be a simular action.

I have incorporated the "hammer" into my practice routine.

Hope to hear more.

John

Yes the "hammer drill" gives the feeling of how the wrist can be a *catalyst* for power in the stroke. The cue is like a "delivery system" for the tip. And the tip, after all is what we are playing the game with.

The cue has SO MANY purposes that are overlooked by amateur players. It's a measuring devise, a power/speed generator and with the wrist used in an "athletic way" it can be used to leverage extra power and accuracy with a minumum amount of effort......"effortless effort" is the result of a great stroke.

*cat·a·lyst   [kat-l-ist] Show IPA
noun
1.
Chemistry . a substance that causes or accelerates a chemical reaction without itself being affected.
2.
something that causes activity between two or more persons or forces without itself being affected.
3.
a person or thing that precipitates an event or change: His imprisonment by the government served as the catalyst that helped transform social unrest into revolution.
4.
a person whose talk, enthusiasm, or energy causes others to be more friendly, enthusiastic, or energetic.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
if it helps some players that's great, and if not, just put it on a shelf

What direction are you cocking , like Shane's photo? Any wrist moving or locked?
Thanks a lot

For his elbow to remain where it is the wrist must be uncocking slighly down/forward. The movement in the regular stroke is difficult to detect, but on the break it becomes much more evident. SEE PICTURES

I'm not sure how Shane feels about this motion or if he's aware of it. In my game it's an important factor that produced effective results. I'm just sharing this and if it helps some players that's great, and if not, just put it on a shelf. 'The Game is the Teacher.

images
 

"Popeye"

living vicariously
Silver Member
Its amazing how much extra spin you can get on the cue ball when you twist your wrist in for inside our outward for outside english. Bear in mind, it will take a while to master this at the end of your stroke and is hard to control, but can be quite impressive when needed.
 

xplor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your wrist has 8 carpal bones and 4 articulations or joints. Your arm has three.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
you can at least expore how it's working in your own game

Its amazing how much extra spin you can get on the cue ball when you twist your wrist in for inside our outward for outside english. Bear in mind, it will take a while to master this at the end of your stroke and is hard to control, but can be quite impressive when needed.

Yes, this is an advanced technique. The hands are the key to your connection because that's what we "touch" and influence The Game with.

Hank Haney, the legendary golf instructor (swing coach for Tiger Woods 6 years) was the first one to point out to me how the wrists work up and down in the golf swing and then I realized how I was doing it in my pool stroke.

To me this is a major key to producing both power and accuracy in my own, personal game. I hope you can at least expore how it's working in your own game. 'The Game is the Teacher'
wong1_40370_1_1_8087.jpg
 
Last edited:

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, this is an advanced technique. The hands are the key to your connection because that's what we "touch" and influence The Game with.

Hank Haney, the legendary golf instructor (swing coach for Tiger Woods 6 years) was the first one to point out to me how the wrists work up and down in the golf swing and then I realized how I was doing it in my pool stroke.

To me this is a major key to producing both power and accuracy in my own, personal game. I hope you can at least expore how it's working in your own game. 'The Game is the Teacher'
wong1_40370_1_1_8087.jpg

Or, maybe it's not an advanced technique, since a lot of amateurs do the same thing. But is merely a compensation in your stroke to correct something else that is wrong. ???
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A little forward snap of the wrist is the key to an effortless draw stroke. Less force =more accuracy.
I was practicing a 6 foot draw shot and hitting it pretty good time after time. A rail bird watched for awhile and said "You are hardly hitting that hard enough to draw it back that far"
I said "all it takes is a little snap of the wrist on the follow thru."
And to myself I said "50 years of doing it doesn't hurt"
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hammer? Help me out John


CJ made a post about this in another thread. I couldnt find it. :frown:

Basically, If you held a hammer (in the same manner that you hold your cue whether it be a "V" grip or the grip CJ uses) and imagined that you were driving a nail into a board this is the wrist action you would use.

What I do (and this is just me) is to imagine that the object ball has the face of a dart board and I try to drive the nail into the bulls eye. Center to center. (a center ball hit)

If my anology is not correct I'm sure I will be corrected. :)

A word of caution, you can either imagine your using a 22oz framing hammer or a tack hammer. The shot will tell you which to use.

John
 
Last edited:

DeadStick

student of the game
Silver Member
It's my opinion that the wrist-down position you see in many top players' end position, like the SVB pic above, is simply a natural side-effect of an extended follow-through (often accompanied by an elbow drop).

The way I look at it: if you actually uncocked your wrist down, like a downwards swing of a hammer, at the moment of impact, when your forearm is approximately perpendicular to the cue, that motion would slow the forward velocity of the cue, as well as apply a top force to the cue to drive the tip towards the cloth. Neither of those forces seem conducive to an straight, accelerating stroke.

I've got an open mind. I tried the "hammer swing" cock and uncock yesterday for an hour or so, and it did Very Bad Things to my stroke. But when I go back to a very loose, relaxed wrist, and snap through the stroke with more of a forward wrist snap (like the initial cocking of a hammer stroke), then I get back to good results. And when I extend my follow through, my wrist ends up like SVB's without any conscious effort.

This subject interests me a great deal. It'd be super-interesting to see some slow-mo, high-res side videos of CJ's stroke, to determine exactly where that downwards uncocking of the wrist is happening. Sometimes what we feel is happening, and what actually is happening, are two different things.
 

dorabelle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The wrist is 100 percent a major power (speed) producer. Its the secret ingredient of the short, accurate, get anywhere on the table strokes.
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's my opinion that the wrist-down position you see in many top players' end position, like the SVB pic above, is simply a natural side-effect of an extended follow-through (often accompanied by an elbow drop).

The way I look at it: if you actually uncocked your wrist down, like a downwards swing of a hammer, at the moment of impact, when your forearm is approximately perpendicular to the cue, that motion would slow the forward velocity of the cue, as well as apply a top force to the cue to drive the tip towards the cloth. Neither of those forces seem conducive to an straight, accelerating stroke.

I've got an open mind. I tried the "hammer swing" cock and uncock yesterday for an hour or so, and it did Very Bad Things to my stroke. But when I go back to a very loose, relaxed wrist, and snap through the stroke with more of a forward wrist snap (like the initial cocking of a hammer stroke), then I get back to good results. And when I extend my follow through, my wrist ends up like SVB's without any conscious effort.

This subject interests me a great deal. It'd be super-interesting to see some slow-mo, high-res side videos of CJ's stroke, to determine exactly where that downwards uncocking of the wrist is happening. Sometimes what we feel is happening, and what actually is happening, are two different things.


The nail is not the cue ball, the nail is the object ball. Its a timing and distance thing.

John
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
from my experience it's "different stokes for different folks"

It's my opinion that the wrist-down position you see in many top players' end position, like the SVB pic above, is simply a natural side-effect of an extended follow-through (often accompanied by an elbow drop).

The way I look at it: if you actually uncocked your wrist down, like a downwards swing of a hammer, at the moment of impact, when your forearm is approximately perpendicular to the cue, that motion would slow the forward velocity of the cue, as well as apply a top force to the cue to drive the tip towards the cloth. Neither of those forces seem conducive to an straight, accelerating stroke.

I've got an open mind. I tried the "hammer swing" cock and uncock yesterday for an hour or so, and it did Very Bad Things to my stroke. But when I go back to a very loose, relaxed wrist, and snap through the stroke with more of a forward wrist snap (like the initial cocking of a hammer stroke), then I get back to good results. And when I extend my follow through, my wrist ends up like SVB's without any conscious effort.

This subject interests me a great deal. It'd be super-interesting to see some slow-mo, high-res side videos of CJ's stroke, to determine exactly where that downwards uncocking of the wrist is happening. Sometimes what we feel is happening, and what actually is happening, are two different things.

As I pointed out there are three different ways of producing a good stroke as far as the wrist is concerned. This may not be something you want to incorporate, but from my experience it's "different stokes for different folks" and it's never a bad thing to find out if something "may work better.

In the process you may find out more about your own style and improve it in the process. Either way it's a win/win situation and it certainly won't hurt.

My uncocking action is a smooth transition that occurs much like the hammer motion. My arm moves at a slower, consistant speed then the wrist kicks in right before contact.

There is no "snapping motions" in my delivery, and I can produce enough power to draw the ball an impressive distance with just the wrist movement and very little arm speed at all.
 

dr9ball

"Lock Doctor"
Silver Member
Snipped........

My uncocking action is a smooth transition that occurs much like the hammer motion. My arm moves at a slower, consistant speed then the wrist kicks in right before contact.

There is no "snapping motions" in my delivery, and I can produce enough power to draw the ball an impressive distance with just the wrist movement and very little arm speed at all.

CJ,

Can you post a video of you using this technique so that we may understand what you are describing better?

Thanks,
 

8onthebreak

THE WORLD IS YOURS
Silver Member
Confused a little

Hey CJ, thx for sharing info...I'm curious and I think we're all lost a little...if you had a pistol in your hand...it would be aimed at the floor during a normal stroke...are you saying that you would cock your wrist so that the pistol would be aiming towards the object ball, or something different? When I think of a hammer swing, I think of an action that would go he opposite direction of the forward momentum of the cue? Can you specify? Thx again.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
you're better off "fine tuning" it than not understanding it at all. imho.

Hey CJ, thx for sharing info...I'm curious and I think we're all lost a little...if you had a pistol in your hand...it would be aimed at the floor during a normal stroke...are you saying that you would cock your wrist so that the pistol would be aiming towards the object ball, or something different? When I think of a hammer swing, I think of an action that would go he opposite direction of the forward momentum of the cue? Can you specify? Thx again.

That's a good question and yes the fully cocked wrist would be pointing at the object ball with the pistol.

Using this technique I can alter how much "wrist release" I'm getting by how much I"m pre cocking it. I would only cock it up to where the piston was aiming at the object ball if I wanted a full, powerful release (like it the break shot or a long "super draw" shot).

For most of the other shots I just "pre cock" my wrist about half way between straight down and aiming at the object ball. When you pre set your wrists like this it promotes them to uncock going through the ball.

This is something that's a key in my stroke, but if it's not for you then maybe you'll at least be more aware of how YOU do it. There is a wrist motion in the pool stroke, I believe you're better off "fine tuning" it than not understanding it at all. imho.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
It's my opinion that the wrist-down position you see in many top players' end position, like the SVB pic above, is simply a natural side-effect of an extended follow-through (often accompanied by an elbow drop).
Agreed.

The way I look at it: if you actually uncocked your wrist down, like a downwards swing of a hammer, at the moment of impact, when your forearm is approximately perpendicular to the cue, that motion would slow the forward velocity of the cue, as well as apply a top force to the cue to drive the tip towards the cloth. Neither of those forces seem conducive to an straight, accelerating stroke.
Agree again.

Whatever this technique does for CJ, it's not a "hidden power catalyst" in any usual sense of those words. In fact, "unusual meaning" seems to be a hallmark of his posts. That seems to be a good thing for some readers - I guess it allows them to interpret things to suit themselves.

pj
chgo
 
Top