Here's one for you- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vth_INW_-Hk&feature=related. As to other videos, there are plenty of them out there. Go watch a few.
WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
Here's one for you- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vth_INW_-Hk&feature=related. As to other videos, there are plenty of them out there. Go watch a few.
Pinning is a carpentry term. I use an air nailer with small brads to connect two pieces together. I also take it as a literal movement downward or pushing against a surface.
Does the stroke feel like you are pushing slightly down and through the cue ball? That's what I feel. Then my tip comes up as it rolls off the top of the cue ball. Not like deflecting up, but still grabbing the cue ball.
I can't tell exactly where I'm hitting the cue ball. I thought it was a very slight amount above center. I need to hit a slight amount below center to get a better stroke? I may be doing that already, just not able to see it because I am so close to center.
Best,
Mike
Does the stroke feel like you are pushing slightly down and through the cue ball? That's what I feel. Then my tip comes up as it rolls off the top of the cue ball. Not like deflecting up, but still grabbing the cue ball.
I can't tell exactly where I'm hitting the cue ball. I thought it was a very slight amount above center. I need to hit a slight amount below center to get a better stroke? I may be doing that already, just not able to see it because I am so close to center.
Best,
Mike
Well I don't know if it is a perfect fit to the present situation, but it did make me laugh! Thank you.
What are we looking at? The guy obviously has no clue how to swing a hammer. He's using a $3, made in China thumb crusher looking for a nail that turns purple when you hit it. :smash:
His stroke is nicknamed, "the woodpecker", and has been spotted in all 50 states putting holes and dents in wood. On day one, I'd pull him off to the side and show him how to swing his pos. Then ask him to give Gepetto back his tacker and buy a real hammer for tomorrow.
Best,
Mike
Wow, if I studied this long enough I would play like a beginner again.
Wow, if I studied this long enough I would play like a beginner again.
I can show so many reasons on the table that this chart is deceptive. First off the examples with a "level cue". Who uses a "level cue"? Certainly not Advanced or Pro players. Look at the first 2 shots (with Bustemante and Efren Reyes), he's cueing with low to "follow" the ball
I will assure you that no one that plays at a championship level would agree that this helps AT ALL in playing the game better. I don't understand why it's so important to make the game Confusing and Ambiguous?
We're ALL confused by them because they're designed to be confusing. You're just
trying to act like you know something (semantics) that doesn't
carry much weight to playing better. Discussing potential problems
without focusing on the solutions is a one way ticket to "pool
purgatory".
Many players (including myself) have reached
the highest levels without making the things you are showing here as "A BIG DEAL." It's very
simple how to adjust for deflection/hot mustard/squirt/sugar
spin/spicy ketchup/swerve/syrup spin/veer and whatever else you can come up
with to confuse curious players. These things are like the
"shank", slice, hook of golf - understood, but not dwelled on for developing
positive fundamentals and techniques.
The fact of
the matter is you can become a champion player by learning how to eliminate
these factors. Illustrating them to make them appear important to the game can be deceptive. Not to mention very unnecessary to developing and maturing as a pool
player, so you can reach the ultimate outcome "truly enjoying the Game".
Follow physics is very different from draw physics.
With draw, the CB loses backspin as the CB drags across the cloth on the way to the OB. The only way to get more draw action is to use more speed and/or hit the CB lower. Although, there are diminishing returns as you approach the miscue limit. With a power draw shot (with good draw action over a long distance), the optimal tip offset is not at the miscue limit, but a little bit higher (but still well below center). For more info, see:
power draw advice
physics-based draw advice
“How High or Low Should You Hit the Cue Ball?” (BD, September, 2011)
The following video illustrates, describes, and demonstrates this effect:
Here's the image I posted earlier (from the normal roll and overspin resource page) that summarizes recommended tip positions for different types of shots:
With a draw shot, added cue elevation generally results in less draw. For more info, see:
However, cue elevation is required for certain types of draw shots (see quick draw).
With follow shots, the CB naturally picks up topspin as it drags across the cloth. The following illustration posted by PJ many years ago illustrates the effect very well:
If there is enough distance between the CB and OB and/or if a shot is hit softly enough, it can have full follow effect regardless of how high or low you hit the CB, as long as the CB develops full roll before it reaches the OB.
Now, with force follow shots, where the CB is close to the OB and/or where fast speed is used, the only way to get maximum follow action is to hit the CB at or above the immediate-roll height. Although, as with draw, there are diminishing returns as you approach the miscue limit. For more info, see:
“How High or Low Should You Hit the Cue Ball?” (BD, September, 2011)
With follow shots, cue elevation doesn't have any negative effect on the amount of follow, but it can reduce accuracy significantly. Even if the tip is just a hair off center (left or right) the swerve resulting from the cue elevation will push the CB off line. For more info, see:
Regards,
Dave
Wow, if I studied this long enough I would play like a beginner again.
I can show so many reasons on the table that this chart is deceptive. First off the examples with a "level cue". Who uses a "level cue"? Certainly not Advanced or Pro players. Look at the first 2 shots (with Bustemante and Efren Reyes), he's cueing with low to "follow" the ball
I will assure you that no one that plays at a championship level would agree that this helps AT ALL in playing the game better. I don't understand why it's so important to make the game Confusing and Ambiguous?
We're ALL confused by them because they're designed to be confusing. You're just
trying to act like you know something (semantics) that doesn't
carry much weight to playing better. Discussing potential problems
without focusing on the solutions is a one way ticket to "pool
purgatory".
Many players (including myself) have reached
the highest levels without making the things you are showing here as "A BIG DEAL." It's very
simple how to adjust for deflection/hot mustard/squirt/sugar
spin/spicy ketchup/swerve/syrup spin/veer and whatever else you can come up
with to confuse curious players. These things are like the
"shank", slice, hook of golf - understood, but not dwelled on for developing
positive fundamentals and techniques.
The fact of
the matter is you can become a champion player by learning how to eliminate
these factors. Illustrating them to make them appear important to the game can be deceptive. Not to mention very unnecessary to developing and maturing as a pool
player, so you can reach the ultimate outcome "truly enjoying the Game".
Pay Up Sucker
Banned
Wow, if I studied this long enough I would play like a beginner again .... :grin:
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CJ, I don't believe people are questioning your skill or the effectiveness of your techniques, rather, the questions are to the validity of your explanation for how they are factually executed. The "They" you may be referring to have shown their scientific, conventional techniques already, most of which are factually shown and proven with high speed video cameras on Doctor Dave's site. If you really wish to "walk the walk", simply exhibit your "techniques" by utilizing similar high speed video cameras. That would certainly prove your point and likely silence the criticism (or possibly, vice versa). You simply saying you do something a certain way and pointing to your professional résumé as proof is a prime example of anecdotal evidence.
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What a stroke! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQbXPQVOqVA&feature=player_detailpage#t=67s
Best,
Mike
Best,
Mike
I never said I was tired of the thread just all the petty nit picking. I'm not sure what CJ said that you keep referring to as not factual and has caused so much animosity in your posts. On a pool forum believe it or not some of us are interested in how a world champion approaches the game. Maybe his opinions or methods differs from yours but why continue the nit picking?
In a nutshell I take away from this thread 3 things that CJ is giving his insights on, keep in mind that over and over he is explaining how he does it, not how everyone must do it.
1) He cocks his wrist and as he contacts the cb uncocks it with a forward down motion. He feels this makes a big difference in his stroke. His grip is also described as tight in his fingers giving him a better feel for the cb, not a loose grip advocated by some instructors. For whatever reason the way CJ strikes a ball really rubbed a few the wrong way.
2)He likes to slightly elevate his cue rather than a level stroke and used the term "pinning" to describe using the top of the tip to precisely strike the ball. He was quickly ridiculed by a few because they said it was impossible to follow using this technique. Even a couple of diagrams were thrown in to prove the folly. As soon as a couple of posters with some cred post that it is possible, all of a sudden the technique is old news and well known.
3) the third thing I found interesting is to not use a bunch of practice strokes once you are down on the ball. I have tried this and so far I like it. Different strokes for different folks.
I'm still not sure what CJ has said that is not factual.
You must be watching a different video than the one you posted, because the first shot you reference is, roughly, a stop shot, as evidenced by his approximate center ball striking (this frame is the instant before contact):
and also by where the CB strikes the 2-ball after the 1-ball. It definitely had some forward roll to it, but mostly it's the angle off the 2-ball that gives it the motion around two rails.
And in the second shot:
he clearly, clearly, strikes the CB above center...
??
[edit]
And, furthermore, that second stroke is about as level as he could make the stick and not drag across the rail.
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Mike,
The stroke is useless without the, imaginenative, creative, confident, 'understanding' required for that type of artistic 'play'.
Best Regards,
CJ, Busty's stroke has been analyzed on here many times. Including why he cues low, then hits somewhere else. Here are the screen shots of the two shots you referenced. They are at the moment of contact. As you can clearly see, he is hitting above center in both instances. What you pros think you are doing is not always what you are actually doing, as this video clip clearly shows. This also shows why it is important to know this stuff when teaching someone, so you actually give correct information on what is actually happening so you can describe it correctly to a student.
And all that "imaginative" blah blah is totally useless without a good stroke.
Anyone with "eyes that can see" also have Real Eyes that can Realize the Real Lies
You aren't reading close enough to understand what is being said. He was told that it is impossible to hit above center on the cb with the top of the tip without elevating the cue. After he changed his story from hitting above center to below center, that is when I and others stated that is nothing new.
As to the practice strokes, that has been the topic of discussion in length many times on here.
ok. First, I don't see any videos of jacked up draw shots.
And quite frankly, I don't see explanations about how much friction is saved due to the time the ball is in the air, vs if it were struck with a level cue, and the speed of the shot that determines that.
And based on your diagrams, it looks like the elevated cue you are talking about, looks like its a jump shot.
You also mention being close to the ball as in that diagram with the 5 ball, and that is way closer then I am talking about.
I am talking about the cue all being quite a distance away from the object ball, not right next to it, and straight in or a little off of that, not with any severe cut angles that would send the ball wide.
This leads me to believe that you aren't talking about the same jacked up angle and distance that I am.
When you post up some videos of the jacked up draw shots and the effects noticed, then we can discuss if you are doing it right or not, and the subsequent scientific explanation for it.
Till then.
You've analyzed his stroke. That's comforting, are you also analyzing.....
You've analyzed his stroke. That's comforting, are you also analyzing Tiger Wood's Golf Swing, Bjorn Borg and Roger Federer's Tennis Swing and Nolan Ryan's Fast Ball?
I'm sure you would be JUST as "expert" at that....or would think your are.
You've analyzed his stroke. That's comforting, are you also analyzing Tiger Wood's Golf Swing, Bjorn Borg and Roger Federer's Tennis Swing and Nolan Ryan's Fast Ball?
I'm sure you would be JUST as "expert" at that....or would think your are.
BTW CJ, I can hit a golf ball making it start out left and then go right and also hit it starting it right and then making it go left. It's actually quite easy. What no professional golfer who ever lived can do is actually spin a ball left and then make it reverse direction, via spin, and have it go right. Or vice versa. This is an indisputable fact about golf. The only way to make a ball draw/hook is to hit the ball with a closed clubface and a fade/slice, vice versa.
Perhaps if Hank Haney could have taught that double spin shot to Tiger, he'd still be his coach instead of resorting to writing reveal all books about his former student.
Perhaps if Hank Haney could have taught that double spin shot to Tiger, he'd still be his coach instead of resorting to writing reveal all books about his former student.